Quadrajet rebuild

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Old March 12th, 2016, 08:00 AM
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Quadrajet rebuild

Good morning all,

I had mentioned in another thread about needing a new carb, but should have started my own thread so here I am, intent on rebuilding mine.
First I would like to thank allyolds68, BackInTheGame, droptopron, and dalilama for responding to my questions and encouraging me to try.
Having no experience rebuilding carburetors, the aforementioned folks and many others on this site in general have inspired me to give it a shot.
I won't be starting right away as there are parts, tools, knowledge and a book to acquire first. Also, please know I readily accept any advice from those that have come before me. I don't want to make this sound harder than it is (to some at least) but I would like to get it right the first time if possible.
Apparently, there are some common pitfalls to avoid, as with most mechanical endeavors, these are a few I have heard of so far.
1. The threads on the filter inlet valve may be damaged.
2. The butterfly valve rod bushings may need replacing.
3. Before removing the needle valve(s?), count how many threads by turning in so that the new one will be right.
Also, I'm not sure if I will need to buy special tools. I do have some machinist tools, and some background using them, maybe they will come in handy? Calipers at least?
So, the P/N on my carb is 7043251. I used a couple online decoders and it would seem it's possible this is the original carb although there was mention that the last number, being odd, indicates a manual tranny (but not always). Mine is automatic, maybe it doesn't matter.
I'm at work until five but this evening or tomorrow I will try to upload some pictures, and details as to my set-up. It's not stock so I think that may have some bearing on the situation. Nothing crazy, a mild cam, Edelbrock intake, electronic ignition, standard upgrades I believe.
Again, I would like to thank all the knowledgeable people here for their kind assistance and say this site has already been an invaluable tool for me.
Jeff
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Old March 12th, 2016, 08:04 AM
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I will be watching as I am in the same boat. I have one I want to replace my 2bl with.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 08:45 AM
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Hi Jeff - glad you're giving this a shot. No special tools needed. Get your rebuild kit, some Berryman Chem-Dip for cleaning the parts, and give the attached a good read. your carb# should be a '73 4BBL and very similar to the one I did. I followed the steps slowly from beginning to end and was fine. The only tricky part for me was detaching and later attaching the lower choke lever while I unhooked / hooked the choke rod. You'll know what I mean when you get to that. Took a few tries but I got it.

Good Luck!
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Old March 12th, 2016, 09:33 AM
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An air compressor is helpful. In a pinch I guess you could you the canned air that you use for cleaning keyboards and such. I use small pieces of stiff copper wire to clean all the passage ways. A carb cleaning agent, as mentioned above, is a must. I usually let the carb soak at least overnight.


Be very careful splitting the three sections apart and especially careful putting them back together. It's very important that you don't damage the tubes that the rods drop into.


If you have to bush the throttle rods you don't replace what's there, you drill it larger and insert the bushing. In order to do this you have to remove the butterfly screws. It's very important that those are staked when they are installed so they can't back out again and get sucked into the motor.

Last edited by allyolds68; March 12th, 2016 at 09:36 AM.
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Old March 12th, 2016, 11:09 AM
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hey, thanks for that file, it will be most helpful.
Thanks too for the tips, both of you. I did do some reading on those butterfly screws and it seems pretty straight forward. I assume the kit has a reamer along with the new larger bushings. Anyone know how much play is acceptable? The mechanic I talked to did feel and move something on the carb and commented it didn't seem too loose, is there a spec?
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Old March 13th, 2016, 05:50 AM
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Basically if you can feel any movement in either the primary or secondary butterflies moving it up and down or back and forth, rebush it. Cliff Ruggles has all the quality rebuild parts you need as well as the harder to find parts for reasonable. He has a nice online site, I have bought a few times from him.
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Old March 13th, 2016, 10:55 AM
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Here is my tip

avoid mangled screw heads. Go to your favorite store - I like the buy-n-sell store- and procure about 10 different screwdrivers. Assuming you can use a grinder to dress the tip of a screwdriver- a basic shop skill- make drivers that EXACTLY fit the various screws on the carb. And the jets. And the Main Inlet Seat.

To do an inlet seat driver, I used a very short very fat bladed tool. I notched the corners away, so that the protruding part goes down into the seat center hole and centers the tool. Then I ground the shoulders to exactly match the seat's tool channels.

When the drivers fit the screws properly, you don't end up with buggered screw heads that look like a monkey worked on it.

And, if a #3 phillips bit fits in, then use it, 'cause it is a #3, not a #2. [underside, base to body, usually]

An actual linkage bending tool is handy as hell, and cheap.

Turn the carb over to let gravity help, when putting that choke actuating link in place down in that cavity.

If you don't have a carb stand, make one with a pc of wood or whatnot, use a gasket to locate the screws, use long screws and spacers or extra nuts to support the carb about 1" off the base, so you can open and close it to verify operation as you proceed.

AC motor case screws are usually #10-32 and 10" long, or you can get all-thread rod from the store. Make 10-32 studs about 4-5" long. Before you put the top [air horn] on, screw these long ones into the body... use them to guide the air horn down into place while you babysit the accel pump into place, and the tubes will go right in where they belong w/o worry or damage. Change out the studs for the real screws and voila.

Re-form the accel. pump ball seat with the old ball and a gentle tap before installing the new ball.

Last edited by Octania; March 13th, 2016 at 11:01 AM.
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Old March 13th, 2016, 11:21 AM
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I documented my carb rebuild, and you may find that of help/interest? No, it is not on a Olds, but it is a GM 4 bbl. Here is the site -
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Old March 13th, 2016, 09:35 PM
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Take a good close look at your idle mixture screws and if they have any wear at all on the tapers (a groove or pitting), buy new ones (QuadraJetParts.com has good prices and quality, as well).

The same goes for your mixture needles and jets. They wear over tens of thousands of miles, and replacing them can make a difference if they're worn.

Also, here's a copy of the '73 Rochester QuadraJet Manual.

And here's an easy to understand rebuilding guide (the GM publications are always the best to refer to, though).

- Eric
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Old March 14th, 2016, 06:29 AM
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Also, recently I tried LEMON JUICE and water - about 50/50- heated on the old outdoor grille for the carb parts cleaner. Give it an hour or three to work its magic. The carb came out looking great, finish intact... grunge gone.

Evapo-rust your rusty steel parts as you see fit. Removes rust but leaves steel and its finish intact.

Either buy a new float, or at least verify that the old one actually floats in gasoline. It is not unheard of than they fail to float, in which case the fuel level is incorrect and all bets are off- nothing will work right at all.

To remove the Power Piston [Fig. 30 in the PDF], the guy's rebuild story shows him prying up on the arm.... which can bend it. The power piston should move freely... push it down, it snaps back up. If you let it snap up quickly 3-4 times, of its own spring, it usually pops out that retainer collar and voila nothing is bent.

Last edited by Octania; March 14th, 2016 at 01:27 PM.
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Old March 14th, 2016, 07:04 AM
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Get Doug Roe and Cliff Ruggles Q-Jet books before you loosen one screw. Read both cover to cover until you comprehend. Then dive in. These two books will offer standard and high perf rebuilding techniques and tips, Q-Jet Bibles if you will. Not all kits are created equal. Stay clear of chineasium junk kits offered by the big box houses of china. Roe, Ruggle, JET, The Carb Shop and other professional Q-Jet guys know where to get the high end kits...call/email and ask. Do not run ethanol in this or any carb. Consider dropping the gas tank and inspecting/replacing the tank pick up sock. Inspect all the lines to and from the tank replace as needed.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 06:25 AM
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thanks for all the tips, greatly appreciated. lots of reading for me to do now, thanks for the links etc..
Came down with a cold Saturday, so taking it easy for a day or two, perfect for reading though. Is a car considered high performance for this rebuild when it just has a mild cam and different intake? I think the kits I've seen so far are different based on something I'm not aware of.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 06:47 AM
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Smile

Originally Posted by Octania
Here is my tip

avoid mangled screw heads. Go to your favorite store - I like the buy-n-sell store- and procure about 10 different screwdrivers. Assuming you can use a grinder to dress the tip of a screwdriver- a basic shop skill- make drivers that EXACTLY fit the various screws on the carb. And the jets. And the Main Inlet Seat.

To do an inlet seat driver, I used a very short very fat bladed tool. I notched the corners away, so that the protruding part goes down into the seat center hole and centers the tool. Then I ground the shoulders to exactly match the seat's tool channels.

When the drivers fit the screws properly, you don't end up with buggered screw heads that look like a monkey worked on it.

And, if a #3 phillips bit fits in, then use it, 'cause it is a #3, not a #2. [underside, base to body, usually]

An actual linkage bending tool is handy as hell, and cheap.

Turn the carb over to let gravity help, when putting that choke actuating link in place down in that cavity.

If you don't have a carb stand, make one with a pc of wood or whatnot, use a gasket to locate the screws, use long screws and spacers or extra nuts to support the carb about 1" off the base, so you can open and close it to verify operation as you proceed.

AC motor case screws are usually #10-32 and 10" long, or you can get all-thread rod from the store. Make 10-32 studs about 4-5" long. Before you put the top [air horn] on, screw these long ones into the body... use them to guide the air horn down into place while you babysit the accel pump into place, and the tubes will go right in where they belong w/o worry or damage. Change out the studs for the real screws and voila.

Re-form the accel. pump ball seat with the old ball and a gentle tap before installing the new ball.


I especially like the screwdriver tip tip. Although I am aware of this, many people seem not to be. Mangled screw heads are not attractive on carbs or pistols!!
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Old March 15th, 2016, 08:35 AM
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The kit quality is all that matters. The hi-po stuff, if needed is extra...rods, jets, springs etc. Then there are specific tuning tips dependent on the application...street/strip/circle track etc...For a street driven stock or near stock grind cam, converter, rear gear the standard kit will suffice. Get a new float too.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 09:37 AM
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thank you drolds, I ordered the Ruggles book and plan to order the kit (and float) from Cliffs high performance.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 01:27 PM
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Doug Roes book is good to have too. They both offer slightly different info.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 03:15 PM
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Don't be intimidated by this at all. I remember the first time I opened up the Q-Jet on my Cutlass back in the early 80s (I was a kid in high school) and was surprised at how simple it was and how few parts there were. All I had to go on back then was the rebuild kit instruction sheet and simply remembering what went where, and whaddaya know, it worked out great.
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Old March 15th, 2016, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Fun71
Don't be intimidated by this at all. I remember the first time I opened up the Q-Jet on my Cutlass back in the early 80s (I was a kid in high school) and was surprised at how simple it was and how few parts there were. All I had to go on back then was the rebuild kit instruction sheet and simply remembering what went where, and whaddaya know, it worked out great.
Truer words were never spoken (well, written... er, typed...).

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Old March 21st, 2016, 02:14 PM
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Before:DSCF5994_zpselzqy6ss.jpg

Last edited by jeff in colorado; March 22nd, 2016 at 07:05 AM. Reason: fixing pictures
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 07:08 AM
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tried putting these in the last post, not working for me I think.
DSCF5995_zpsoad4ktji.jpg


DSCF5993_zps07w8kzjg.jpg
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 07:28 AM
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Can someone tell if this looks rebuilt already from the pictures? The screws on the butterfly shaft do not look stock to me. Not sure that is the right terminology. By the paperwork I got with the car, it seems there was carb work done in 1998, only about 25,000 miles since that time according to the inaccurate odometer (due to 3.55 gears put in and the speedo being off by about plus 10%)
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff in colorado
Can someone tell if this looks rebuilt already from the pictures?
... it seems there was carb work done in 1998, only about 25,000 miles since that time...
Doesn't matter. That's almost 20 years. Parts deteriorate, crud condenses, corrosion forms.

Time to rebuild.

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Old March 22nd, 2016, 08:07 AM
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I see a mangled pulloff/ secondary control link.

Screw heads look OK

I believe the air horn gasket sticking out at the left front was not a factory feature, so that indicates it has had attention.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff in colorado
Can someone tell if this looks rebuilt already from the pictures? The screws on the butterfly shaft do not look stock to me.
If you are talking about the screws holding the choke plate, those are stock.

On the other hand, there's no way a 43 year old carb hasn't been rebuilt at least once. Obviously the AN adapter on the fuel inlet and electric choke are not original. The throttle solenoid is also missing. Obviously the hardware store all thread and nuts holding the carb to the intake are not original.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 08:56 AM
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ok, thank you all. I have the kit and bushing kit from Cliffs, just got the book yesterday, so I'm in process of learning before tearing into it. My friend has a small compressor to loan me, need to go to the parts store for some supplies. I have some brake cleaner spray, non-chlorinated. I'll pick up some environmentally friendly cleaner for soaking. What am I forgetting? Plan to do it next week.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Octania
I see a mangled pulloff/ secondary control link.

Screw heads look OK

I believe the air horn gasket sticking out at the left front was not a factory feature, so that indicates it has had attention.


do you mean on the second picture, near the body, the crooked plate looking part (left side)? Oops, I mean the third picture?

Last edited by jeff in colorado; March 22nd, 2016 at 09:03 AM. Reason: error
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 09:12 AM
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Good luck with the enviro tree hugger non working solvents...They dont work for me.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff in colorado
I have some brake cleaner spray, non-chlorinated. I'll pick up some environmentally friendly cleaner for soaking.
Don't waste your money.

Buy the nastiest crap you can get your hands on (but then don't soak your hands in it).

You do not want brake cleaner - you want carb cleaner.
And, really, you do not want carb cleaner - you want carb soaker:





- Eric
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 09:27 AM
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I'm open to more suggestions.
Also, I forgot to ask if the rebuild kit is ethanol compatible when I ordered. Should I call Cliffs or does someone know?
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 09:32 AM
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roger that. thanks.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff in colorado
Should I call Cliffs or does someone know?
Cliff's is.

Frankly most, if not all of the modern ones are (that is: excluding NOS and on-the-shelf-a-long-time).

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Old March 22nd, 2016, 09:38 AM
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You should really avoid E85 with anything not designed to run it. I've seen first hand what the crap will do to a carb if it sits. Which most of our toys do... sit. I run non ethanol in everything that has a carburetor and older FI systems as well. You can add Marine Sta-bil to the gas if you cant find ethanol free in your area. That will prolong the rot.
What you want is a kit designed for today's non-ethanol fuel. Today's lead free regular non-ethanol is different than what was available back in 60s-70s. You should be ok with what Cliff sold you. But it couldn't hurt to call and ask.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 09:43 AM
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The used carb cleaner also works great for killing thorn bushes.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 09:47 AM
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pretty difficult to avoid the ethanol fuels near me, been running it in everything I own so far, not saying that's good or bad. I'm too lazy to go looking for non-ethanol. I do use 91 or better octane if that matters.
Thanks again. I'm off to the parts store.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff in colorado
I do use 91 or better octane if that matters.
It doesn't. Completely different thing.



Note that in addition to ethanol's ability to hold onto water (rather than having it sink to the bottom), its other important trait is that it has less energy per unit of weight or of volume.

This means that you will always get poorer gas mileage with ethanol than with straight gas, because there's just less "Go" in each gallon.

It also means that it is only appropriate for vehicles whose fuel systems can adapt their mixture on the fly (ie: vehicles with closed-loop oxygen sensors), or for vehicles that are specifically calibrated for ethanol gas.

In a carbureted engine, the jets and needles are very specifically sized to admit just the right amount of fuel per unit of air, and if there is less energy in the fuel, then the engine will run lean. In practice, an engine that will only run on ethanol gas should have its jets enlarged and/or needles reduced, to increase fuel flow slightly, compared to its specified factory setup.
In my own case, I initially had an original '68 HC SBO carb. on my '68 HC 350, and it was always a little bit rough. I switched to a '68 442 carb that I had lying around (I rebuilt both carbs) and it smoothed out and gained power. I attribute that to the jetting being slightly larger, thus adding a bit more fuel to make up for the lower energy content of the ethanol gas. (Yes, I know that if I welded in bungs and got a wideband mixture meter, I'd know for sure, but this ain't the car that gonna get that treatment).

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Old March 22nd, 2016, 10:57 AM
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I appreciate the info MDchanic. So, now that I have bought the rebuild kit for this carb, should I consider bigger jets or smaller needles when I do it? Can I reduce the needle diameters that came with this kit on a drill press with emery cloth? Or drill bigger holes in the jets?
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff in colorado
... should I consider bigger jets or smaller needles when I do it? Can I reduce the needle diameters that came with this kit on a drill press with emery cloth? Or drill bigger holes in the jets?
Yikes!

No.

For now, just set it up stock.

If you need to make changes later, you can always buy jets and/or needles and make incremental adjustments. They're cheap (see the link I posted above to QuadraJetParts.com).

NEVER drill, file, or sand these parts (there are some experts who can, but leave that to them). You'll only ruin them.

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Old March 22nd, 2016, 11:18 AM
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ok, just checkin', no need to worry, lol. I do have some metal skills, tools, and stuff, lol.
thanks again, talk to you later.
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 01:58 PM
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A few more pictures. Should I try to re-size these, and am I posting too many pictures for this? It helps me a lot, but I could see someone finding it annoying or repetitious.


DSCF6005_zpspld9kxke.jpg
DSCF6006_zps63svkibf.jpg
DSCF6007_zpsn9gy58ek.jpg
DSCF6008_zpsc58elgc1.jpg
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Old March 22nd, 2016, 01:59 PM
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I'm thinking that accelerator pump has seen much better days!
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