deejai35

I have been reading through recent and past threads on similar builds and I am asking for opinions on my planning. I know each build is different and the components can greatly affect the overall components. I list what I am thinking and you can give a newbie your input.

Currently have a 1972 Olds 350 with about 150K.
Quadrajet 7042250 with a fresh rebuild (to be installed)
Edelbrock Performer RPM (to be installed)
Headers
Assuming 2.73 gears and all remaining components to be stock

I am planning to purchase:
flat top forged pistons (10.89:1 CR)
street/strip cam with hydraulic lifters
timing chain
spark plugs/wires
3 angle valve job in intake valves

My goal is a muscle car! To me, that means, car shows, cruise ins, and the occasional trip to the drag strip. I am shooting for 300hp/350tq with a total budget of $1,000. Which means, I will have to learn my way through the wrenching I am still researching cams to fit the components. What do you think? Any suggestions?

coppercutlass

What you wanna do is almost impossible with new pistons 1k is very limted. I would find a 14 cc dished piston 350 . deck the block enought to make up for the thicker gaskets and mill the heads to bump up the compression to about 9.5 to 1 roughly. I ran a 350 combo with 14 cc dished pistons it was a re ring and bearing type deal nothing fancy it had a mild mild cam comp 260h , stock 7A heads the earlier ones and edelbrock intake 1405 edelbrock carb full length headers and an x pipe . the car ran a 13.86 and by the hp calculator that made 346 hp. at the flywheel that set up cost me 1800 carb to oil pan . It also has a th400 with 3.73 gears out back .

deejai35

CopperCutlass, what do you think of the Speed Pro L2320F pistons? I can get a set online for about $360 shipped. I think they would fit in the budget with the other plans.

coppercutlass

well the pistons are 360 plus the cost of boring or honeing plus balancing plus recondition the rods,cutting polishing the crank . then you need new bearings, new rings, new oil pump, timing chain , cam lifters, It will add up to close to or over 2k just in the bottom end . everytime you get a significantly diffrent piston., weight wise you need to balance it. Now if you pick up a good core polish the crank your self assuming they measure withing specs, and you hone your own cylinders you could build a bottom end for under 1k. My current combo is a cast flat top piston set up but they came from a w31 engine so they did not need to get balanced. I spent 800 alone on the bottom end on mine and the only thing the machine shop saw was the block to r&r the cam bearings and the swap the pistons to the rods i did everything else. My crrent heads cost me 1100 alone but they got big valves bowl work and everyhting else new . My current comblo is a low 13 sec set up with more potential in it. This set up alone cost me 2800 bucks carb to oil pan. Those speed pros are good pistons a bit heavy but they work just be prepared to spend around 1000 in machining balancing etc. exc. the piston price.

deejai35

Okay, that makes sense... This is the first car I have ever done anything to the internals on. Now I know why.

The 14CC dish pistons are sounding more reasonable. My research may be going in a new direction. Thanks for sharing some of your knowledge.

coppercutlass

Yes the 14cc dished pistons are found in 68-70 low compression engines and 73 and up. 71 72 had huge 23 cc dishes. If you find an engine with the samller dishes they can yeild some good compression that would be a good core engine to start with . That is if you just plan on doing a re ring and bearing job with mo major machining re using old pistons etc.

oddball

As noted, $1k is a really tight budget for a full rebuild. Other things sneak up on you, like valvetrain, gaskets, various supplies, then all the "didn't know THAT needed replacing..." times. Case in point, I set a budget of ~$3k for my current build. It's somewhere around $6k at this point. And I've been through this before.
If the bottom end is still good, then you can just do a cam swap and gain some power. You almost certainly have the huge-dish pistons, which makes that difficult.

captjim

Here is a realistic cost for a quality rebuild,
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...arts-list.html
This does not include assembly.
You could skip a few things and maybe come in a little over $3,000, but that still does not include exhaust, ignition, or carb upgrades. IMO $1000 is simply not realistic, you could barely do a cheap re-ring for that.

deejai35

Oddball, right, it probably has the 24cc dish pistons. I thought about just changing the cam and some other maintenance, but that leaves me with around 8.5:1 compression and low HP.

Capt, thanks for the link. I don't know how I missed that thread. It should be sticky, or part of an FAQ.

I think I am learning one of the key rules with muscle cars... you gotta pay to play.

joesw31

Another thought would be to find a complete used engine that has the high compression pistons that you can drop in.

captjim

Or just find a running 455..............

coppercutlass

I do budget rebuilds but i take calculated risk's. I see guys who dump 7k into an engine that a "professional" builds and they fail within 500 miles. Im not saying that there are not any good engine builders but i like to build my own stuff and dont like to spend much . I have made many questionable decisions but my current 350 is proof it can be done i spent under 3k carb to oil pan. I bought a used intake, used msd wires, used flat top cast pistons, My engine would normally cost some one around 6 to 7 K to build. There is nothing wrong with building it the right way and doing things right. In the end it's what the wallet allows and lets just say i trying to have caviar for the price of a bag of doritos.

joesw31

A built 455 ready for installation...

Vega

Used Olds 350 parts are way cheaper than 455 parts since 90% of people out there just want to toss the biggest thing they can in and take it to the strip. Id say the 350 is the best place to go for a budget OEM-ish hotrod rebuild. Either way is good really, if you really wanted a 455 everything swaps over. Mounts, brackets, even water pumps, its a very straight-forward longblock-to-longblock swap. But you do already have a 350 to start with and thats what makes me say keep the 350 and budget build it. Buying a 455 youre still gonna run into all the same things you needed/wanted for the 350 but the difference is you already have the 350 for free and can scratch that off the "final cost" list. Even if you bought a running 455 ($800 give or take) you would still be looking at cam and lifter swap, which requires tearing down the motor, which means you'll want new gaskets as well, and might end up finding a few more things inside the motor that need addressed as well. See what i mean? Its basically the same rebuild either way you look at it. Just go with the 350, throw a goal price out there, then set aside twice that just in case. Check in with coppercutlass from time to time, he knows all about these budget 350 builds. Do it and have fun! Who knows, you might just surprise yourself and others with a well build budget motor when its all said and done

deejai35

Those are all thoughts I've had. If I am buying a block, I might as well get a 455. I have seen running 455/TH400 reasonably priced lately. Then like Vega said, I'm. Back to cam and other upgrades.

Vega

Either way you'll have the same amount of work ahead of you. Just depends on what you want. A 350 will get the job done on the street and will give decent mileage, a 455 will give more performance-wise without sacrificing streetability but the mileage will be terrible. Either way its the same amount of work

deejai35

I started looking at running 455 blocks in my area... around $500. Even with the low compression, mostly stock components, a refresh and a mild cam, my HP/TQ numbers are easier to reach. It will be my fun car and I live in the midwest. So if time/family doesn't restrict my driving, the weather will. I can probably live with the low gas mileage based on that.

captjim

A lot of this makes no sense to me. Not being a snob, but "used parts" and "Rebuild" do not belong in the same sentence. "Slap together re-ring", maybe. Garbage in, garbage out.
A decent running stock low comp 455 makes more torque than a fresh 355 will. I love 350 SBOs, but bang-for-the-buck, the 455 wins most times. No need for a new cam or tear down. Drop it in, drive it. The old saying "There is no substitution for cubic inches" applies. If you start from scratch, both requiring the same $ to rebuild, how can a 468 not out perform a 355 on a street car?

coppercutlass

I have what some would consider junk in and it runs good dunno about garbage. It all comes down to who built it. I think running low 13's on under 3k is not too shabby.

captjim

I guess I just do not understand why here and at OldsPower, doing things as cheaply as possible is glamourized so much vs doing things the right way. I know not everybody has $5000 for an engine rebuild. But you get what you pay for. Skipping quality machine work and using used parts does not qualify as "Building and Engine". Whatever, I have been beating this dead horse for too long, I suppose I should quit wasting my time.

380 Racer

Yes Jim, I agree.

joesw31

It's difficult to build a engine with wanting more concept without a decent budget in mind.

deejai35

So, I didn't calculate machine work in the budget. No experience there, so lesson learned. I'm. Not looking to spend $5,000 but I see that $1,000 is too little. The link CaptJim provided seems to fit reality.

coppercutlass

it's difficult to build an engine on a budget . If i can do it right i will. I spent 1445 to be percise at rocket racing for john to do my heads and for the roller tip rocker set up. Im willing to pay but soemtimes the money is not there. It's like a told a good friend of mine who races a 9 sec olds. I do what i can with the money i have at the time becasue if i dont do it then something else stupid is going to come up and it's very easy to say oh i got money i can use for that and there goes a chunk of the engine fund. When i built my current engine i only had 2k on hand., i finished the rest pay check to pay check. You know they say times are though well for me they are. Im in the process of buying a house and starting a life with my fiance and spending cash like that is not an option for me. I have been putting money aside for my current shortblock between saving for a house and bills and all i have is 1k. Thats the engine fund 20 bucks here 50 bucks there trying to save for the toys is hard when you have priorities. I have been selling parts i have lying around and doing side jobs so i can fund this current shortblock i picked up at a swap meet again yet another gamble i took. This is why i glamorize how i do things im not saying im right but i has worked for me. Not everyone has the coin to do it be we make do with what we can.

Vega

Why is "doing things cheaply" the wrong way? People get really offended by these budget builds and i dont understand it at all. When a build like this is done all of the parts are thoroughly inspected and reconditioned, its not like parts are randomly tossed in with no rhyme or reason. A motor rebuild, even a performance rebuild does not have to be all new components to be realiable or to be done "the right way". "the right way" is a matter of perspective. If you have $10k to drop into a motor, by all means, go for it. But for some people its just smarter to plan a very thorough build using good condition used parts to achieve the same goal, and no it isnt going to be made of glass either, it worked for 40+ years i think its earned the benefit of the doubt.

I just wish people would stop bashing this stuff like its blasphomy. Yes, i do recommend using new components if you can. Of course, its brand new stuff, its added security. But theres nothing wrong with using reconditioned parts either. Its called hotrodding, it does work and you dont have to be scared of it

MDchanic

I'm with Vega and Copper here.

Parts don't have to be new in order to be good enough for a specific purpose.

Maybe for a full-out racing engine, but not for most other uses, including the occasional track run, like Copper does. His builds are proof of that.

Even the Chassis Service Manual gives specifications for when to keep or reject parts. That means that if they fall within the specs, they can be reused.

I'm sorry, but I do not agree that there is a "right way" to rebuild or recondition an engine. "Wrong ways," sure, there are an infinite number of them, but if you can put it together and it performs the way for want it to, for the amount of time you need it to, then I'd say the job was done right.

... And I find the idea that the only "right way" involves spending a whole lot of money, and that nobody should try to do so for less, to be personally offensive. The economy sucks, real wages in the lower half (more or less) of the income spectrum have been declining for twenty years, and a huge number of people are really hurting out there. It's all well and good to be fortunate enough to have a secure job with a good income, but both of those things are just luxuries for more Americans than many of us would like to think about. "Making do" is an honorable thing, a tradition in this country since it was founded, and the bedrock on which "hot rodding" was built in the 1930s and '40s.

Show me a scrounge or a wheeler-dealer, and I'll show you the kind of person who made this country great, and who are becoming scarcer and scarcer as they are replaced by disability hounds and desk jockeys.

- Eric

captjim

You guys are certainly entitled to your opinions, but the next time you start whining that nobody mkes performance Olds parts, point to this thread and the gazillion like it.

380 Racer

Do you think I just dropped say $10,000 into a motor and went racing? Been racing my Cutlass for 28 years on a budget. Ran cast pistons for the first few years, until a cheap valve lost the head. Total.....and I mean TOTAL destruction @ 6200 rpm. 50 kazillion pieces of piston through out the motor. Always trying to do it right but only as I could afford. Did you know I bought my first new carb 3 yrs ago? I used hyd cams up until the 380 and then bought a used cam from a friend. So don't tell me I know nothing about being a little thrifty with parts. Just trying to tell you that bragging about being a Junkyard Dog will not last or perform as well as a "better" built motor. Been there, done that is where I'm coming from.

coppercutlass

I never said no one was thrify. I'm just saying i tend to pinch my pennies a bit more. I think my junkyard dog runs alright and pretty impresive for what it's got. The flip side to all this is guys who build a 6k engine and it fails very soon. There is some bragging rights to going fast for less. Everyone loves the underdog the little guy. I can't say I aspire to race at your level I love your car btw I have seen it run at byron I believe in 07 . I'm happy with a car that runs 12's eneough to have fun and still not break the bank. I will get it there hopefully this summer.

deejai35

Tomorrow I'm taking a second look at a 69 350 short block, bored .030 over with high compression pistons. It was assembled by a machine shop and balanced. Might be the answer to my budget needs.

coppercutlass

Pull rod caps and main caps off. Inspect the bearings , cylinder walls, ask for a build sheet if possible. I usually keep all that stuff but some people dont.

deejai35

Thanks for the pointers. I'll let you know how it goes.

deejai35

I picked up the 355 for $600. It has NOS Speed Pro high compression pistons (2264P .030). I'm still trying to figure out the piston dish, but its not much. The crank is 10/10 and has been balanced. The bearings, pistons, camshaft and lifters are all new. I also have a new set of TRW rockers. I took my neighbor (muscle car enthusiast) for a second set of eyes and it seems to check out. I even got an engine stand with it too. The seller couldn't find the build sheet or the cam information. I plan on replacing the cam so I know what I have. Thinking XE268H

20120310_153520.jpg

20120310_153459.jpg

coppercutlass

nice score. I would take the engine apart and have a shop check the balance, mag the block and polish everything up if you plan on installing new bearings and rings. At this point you save alot of coin spending a bit to make sure it's right is ok is well worth it . My guess on the cc's of the pistons are between 7-10 at most., might be less.

deejai35

Hoping not to take the engine apart since it was recently machine shop assembled. The rings and bearings are new/never ran. I have about $400 left in the budget for cam, timing gear, oil pump, spark plugs, and necessary gaskets.

MDchanic

You do this at your peril, unless the machine shop has agreed in writing to guarantee it for you.

- Eric

coppercutlass

Gotcha. If it was never ran then i would go for it too and just build it ., but at this point though you could spend a bit to have that cheao insuranve you know.

deejai35

I'll look into having the balance checked/verified. That was part of the appeal with buying this shortblock, the machine work was done for me and it had new parts. The guy sold the car before replacing the engine.

coppercutlass

take it apart and blow wd40 through all the oil passgaes let it sit for a few hours then blow it out with brake cleaner you dont want to run the risk of having any small particles or surface rust running through your oil. When you re assemble it goop the snot out of it with assembly lube i personally like the lucas assembly lube.