355 Olds build cost and parts list
December 18th, 2010, 12:54 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
355 Olds build cost and parts list
I posted this on another board in response to a discussion on build costs. Thought someone here might find it interesting. I only used available off-the-shelf parts for Oldsmobiles.
OK, I took some time to make this up, based on prices here and in my experience what is required for a decent engine, not a crappy re-ring. I'm sure I left something out.
I did not include part numbers where there are size options. Another $1000 may be required for carb, ignition, balancer, tins, etc. Also, I listed $400 for cam, lifter, springs, which IMO is low, especially if a roller is desired. Obviously, this is plus assembly. After sorted out, maybe we can edit and put in "Tech" if for no other reason than the parts list. Go ahead and critique.
Core, $100
Machine work, clean, bore, hone, align hone,
Cam bearings installed, deck .015 $700
Head work, new liners, race valve job, seats
Port work (3 hours per head) , clean-up mill $750
Crank work, cut .010 on mains and rods $300
And balance
Rods, recondition and resize $100
MACHINE SHOP TOTAL $1950
PARTS
Bottom end,
Speed Pro 2320F30 $420
ARP rod bolts 184-6001 $ 62
ARP main bolts 184-5001 $ 36
Rebuild kit, rings, bearings, gaskets $230
Oil pump, stock SP Z224 $ 43
Cam bearings Clevite SH1354S $ 25
Oil pump drive shaft Melling IS-22F $ 13
Cloyes timing chain 9-1113 $ 67
Cam and lifters, springs varies
greatly, low end is $400
Freeze plugs SP Z381 $ 12
TOTAL PARTS SHORT BLOCK $1308
Parts, other
Valves $175
RPM intake manifold 7111 $250
Intake gaskets MG 4694G Ultra seal $ 23
Water pump and thermostat $ 40
Comp roller top rockers 1441 $265
TOTAL $763
TOTAL PARTS AND MACHINE WORK $4021
OK, I took some time to make this up, based on prices here and in my experience what is required for a decent engine, not a crappy re-ring. I'm sure I left something out.
I did not include part numbers where there are size options. Another $1000 may be required for carb, ignition, balancer, tins, etc. Also, I listed $400 for cam, lifter, springs, which IMO is low, especially if a roller is desired. Obviously, this is plus assembly. After sorted out, maybe we can edit and put in "Tech" if for no other reason than the parts list. Go ahead and critique.Core, $100
Machine work, clean, bore, hone, align hone,
Cam bearings installed, deck .015 $700
Head work, new liners, race valve job, seats
Port work (3 hours per head) , clean-up mill $750
Crank work, cut .010 on mains and rods $300
And balance
Rods, recondition and resize $100
MACHINE SHOP TOTAL $1950
PARTS
Bottom end,
Speed Pro 2320F30 $420
ARP rod bolts 184-6001 $ 62
ARP main bolts 184-5001 $ 36
Rebuild kit, rings, bearings, gaskets $230
Oil pump, stock SP Z224 $ 43
Cam bearings Clevite SH1354S $ 25
Oil pump drive shaft Melling IS-22F $ 13
Cloyes timing chain 9-1113 $ 67
Cam and lifters, springs varies
greatly, low end is $400
Freeze plugs SP Z381 $ 12
TOTAL PARTS SHORT BLOCK $1308
Parts, other
Valves $175
RPM intake manifold 7111 $250
Intake gaskets MG 4694G Ultra seal $ 23
Water pump and thermostat $ 40
Comp roller top rockers 1441 $265
TOTAL $763
TOTAL PARTS AND MACHINE WORK $4021
Last edited by captjim; August 3rd, 2012 at 04:01 AM.
December 20th, 2010, 12:59 PM
#4
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Phx, AZ
Posts: 1,012
EXCELLENT guide Mark!
A few other items, and hopefully your block, and heads will not be cracked.
It happens...
Magnaflux...$40 on heads, similar on block. Mark's cost guide may have reflected this without saying so. Make sure to ask for it.
R&R rods & pistons, Mark's numbers may have reflected this also. Make sure your shop KNOWS how YOU want them installed. Not all care. They will definitely charge you for it. Right around $30
You may not need an align hone the mains, but always have them check it for straightness, anyway.
Glad you took the time to type out some current prices for us.
Jim
A few other items, and hopefully your block, and heads will not be cracked.
It happens...
Magnaflux...$40 on heads, similar on block. Mark's cost guide may have reflected this without saying so. Make sure to ask for it.
R&R rods & pistons, Mark's numbers may have reflected this also. Make sure your shop KNOWS how YOU want them installed. Not all care. They will definitely charge you for it. Right around $30
You may not need an align hone the mains, but always have them check it for straightness, anyway.
Glad you took the time to type out some current prices for us.
Jim
Last edited by Warhead; December 20th, 2010 at 01:02 PM.
December 20th, 2010, 01:45 PM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
I did factor in the align hone, especially on a higher rpm engine, they will need to be a tad looser. I did forget about pressing on the pistons and rod bolts. This is another "hidden cost" that is easy to overlook, an expense not needed with new SBC rods and floating pistons.
December 28th, 2010, 07:07 PM
#8
Connoisseur d'Junque
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: The Hudson Valley
Posts: 21,183
Yeah, this was something I was going to ask about when I got closer to rebuilding mine, but I'll throw in now. For a more or less stock 10:1 350, with a normal rev range and converter, that will be used for fun on the street, but never taken to the track, and that will NOT race any kids in Japanese cars at stoplights (dignity, man!) are ARP main, rod, and head bolts really necessary?
They seem like overkill when the originals lasted just fine for forty years.
- Eric
They seem like overkill when the originals lasted just fine for forty years.
- Eric
December 28th, 2010, 07:12 PM
#9
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,828
I agree. If you're over 400hp/tq then I think cap walk may start to become an issue, then I would go for better main bolts or studs. But ARP rod bolts I do automatically, moreso on big blocks and/or with stock style heavy pistons.
December 29th, 2010, 06:25 AM
#10
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
Yeah, this was something I was going to ask about when I got closer to rebuilding mine, but I'll throw in now. For a more or less stock 10:1 350, with a normal rev range and converter, that will be used for fun on the street, but never taken to the track, and that will NOT race any kids in Japanese cars at stoplights (dignity, man!) are ARP main, rod, and head bolts really necessary?
They seem like overkill when the originals lasted just fine for forty years.
- Eric
They seem like overkill when the originals lasted just fine for forty years.
- Eric
December 29th, 2010, 11:44 AM
#11
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,828
In most cases the rods need resizing anyway, so the rod bolts are a cost effective upgrade, IMO. The owner of another Oldsmobile board thinks that ARP rod bolts are a waste of money, I disagree. Main bolts are only $36 and usually do not distort the align bore, though I always check it. Cheap insurance, IMO.
July 12th, 2012, 10:16 PM
#14
Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Laplace, Louisiana
Posts: 63
how much torque and horsepower did it produce? Did you use headers, if so what kind? Did you go back with the Quad carb?
I posted this on another board in response to a discussion on build costs. Thought someone here might find it interesting. I only used available off-the-shelf parts for Oldsmobiles.
OK, I took some time to make this up, based on prices here and in my experience what is required for a decent engine, not a crappy re-ring. I'm sure I left something out. I did not include part numbers where there are size options. Another $1000 may be required for carb, ignition, balancer, tins, etc. Also, I listed $400 for cam, lifter, springs, which IMO is low, especially if a roller is desired. Obviously, this is plus assembly. After sorted out, maybe we can edit and put in "Tech" if for no other reason than the parts list. Go ahead and critique.
Core, $100
Machine work, clean, bore, hone, align hone,
Cam bearings installed, deck .015 $700
Head work, new liners, race valve job, seats
Port work (3 hours per head) , clean-up mill $750
Crank work, cut .010 on mains and rods $300
And balance
Rods, recondition and resize $100
MACHINE SHOP TOTAL $1950
PARTS
Bottom end,
Speed Pro 2320F30 $420
ARP rod bolts 184-6001 $ 62
ARP main bolts 184-5001 $ 36
Rebuild kit, rings, bearings, gaskets $230
Oil pump, stock SP Z224 $ 43
Cam bearings Clevite SH1354S $ 25
Oil pump drive shaft Melling IS-22F $ 13
Cloyes timing chain 9-1113 $ 67
Cam and lifters, springs varies
greatly, low end is $400
Freeze plugs SP Z381 $ 12
TOTAL PARTS SHORT BLOCK $1308
Parts, other
Valves $175
RPM intake manifold 7111 $250
Intake gaskets MG 4694G Ultra seal $ 23
Water pump and thermostat $ 40
Comp roller top rockers 1441 $265
TOTAL $763
TOTAL PARTS AND MACHINE WORK $4021
OK, I took some time to make this up, based on prices here and in my experience what is required for a decent engine, not a crappy re-ring. I'm sure I left something out.
I did not include part numbers where there are size options. Another $1000 may be required for carb, ignition, balancer, tins, etc. Also, I listed $400 for cam, lifter, springs, which IMO is low, especially if a roller is desired. Obviously, this is plus assembly. After sorted out, maybe we can edit and put in "Tech" if for no other reason than the parts list. Go ahead and critique.Core, $100
Machine work, clean, bore, hone, align hone,
Cam bearings installed, deck .015 $700
Head work, new liners, race valve job, seats
Port work (3 hours per head) , clean-up mill $750
Crank work, cut .010 on mains and rods $300
And balance
Rods, recondition and resize $100
MACHINE SHOP TOTAL $1950
PARTS
Bottom end,
Speed Pro 2320F30 $420
ARP rod bolts 184-6001 $ 62
ARP main bolts 184-5001 $ 36
Rebuild kit, rings, bearings, gaskets $230
Oil pump, stock SP Z224 $ 43
Cam bearings Clevite SH1354S $ 25
Oil pump drive shaft Melling IS-22F $ 13
Cloyes timing chain 9-1113 $ 67
Cam and lifters, springs varies
greatly, low end is $400
Freeze plugs SP Z381 $ 12
TOTAL PARTS SHORT BLOCK $1308
Parts, other
Valves $175
RPM intake manifold 7111 $250
Intake gaskets MG 4694G Ultra seal $ 23
Water pump and thermostat $ 40
Comp roller top rockers 1441 $265
TOTAL $763
TOTAL PARTS AND MACHINE WORK $4021
Last edited by nuttkaze; July 13th, 2012 at 12:46 AM.
July 13th, 2012, 05:03 AM
#15
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
This post was to give guys a real-world cost on a 355 build using new parts. Results will change depending on cam, comression, head work, etc. Here is a mild 355 build,
http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=28012
It made 242 RWHP. I have a "hotter" 10.25 to 1 355 in my 71 Skylark, 510/522 cam, that runs good but I have never dyno'd. I think it is safe to say that using flat tops and the right cam along with a quality valve job and some port work, 350 HP and 375 ft/lbs on pump gas would be a reasonble expectation. But again, there is SO much more to how an engine runs that peak numbers. SBCs make good numbers, but they are "peaky". Olds engines generally have broader, flatter curves resulting in great response and also requiring less gear.
http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=28012
It made 242 RWHP. I have a "hotter" 10.25 to 1 355 in my 71 Skylark, 510/522 cam, that runs good but I have never dyno'd. I think it is safe to say that using flat tops and the right cam along with a quality valve job and some port work, 350 HP and 375 ft/lbs on pump gas would be a reasonble expectation. But again, there is SO much more to how an engine runs that peak numbers. SBCs make good numbers, but they are "peaky". Olds engines generally have broader, flatter curves resulting in great response and also requiring less gear.
July 13th, 2012, 12:39 PM
#16
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,828
If you do the math a 350 SBC should actually be torquier than a 350 SBO because it has a longer stroke, 3.480 vs 3.385.
But the Olds makes more torque down low for two basic reasons, it has smaller ports and because of the slightly higher deck, it consequently has intake runners that are a bit longer. That's why they make more torque down low. Put comparable stuff on a 350 SBC and it'll make comparable power, at a similar rpm.
By doing EFI you learn a lot about fuel curves, ignition timing requirements and so on. I've never dynoed it but buy the amount of fuel my EFI'd 350 is using (through my VE table) I know I'm making about 360-375hp. It takes X amount of fuel to make X amount of hp/tq, plain and simple.
But the Olds makes more torque down low for two basic reasons, it has smaller ports and because of the slightly higher deck, it consequently has intake runners that are a bit longer. That's why they make more torque down low. Put comparable stuff on a 350 SBC and it'll make comparable power, at a similar rpm.
By doing EFI you learn a lot about fuel curves, ignition timing requirements and so on. I've never dynoed it but buy the amount of fuel my EFI'd 350 is using (through my VE table) I know I'm making about 360-375hp. It takes X amount of fuel to make X amount of hp/tq, plain and simple.
July 13th, 2012, 01:04 PM
#17
This sounds about right. For price I'm building mine at the moment and so far I'm right under 3800 but I'm sure it will go up with other stuff I need. Since a few of you guys might k now I figured is ask. Who offers a windage tray for an sbo. Is the advantage worht it. I am going to. 7qt pan. I'm using the studs from milodon.
July 13th, 2012, 03:11 PM
#19
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
Not sure, not much experience with those. There are more parts available for a BBO. New rods are available, but a tad pricey. Piston choice is much better. Machine work and most of the other parts are the same. New aluminum heads cost more but are probably a better choice in the long run.
July 13th, 2012, 03:13 PM
#20
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
If you do the math a 350 SBC should actually be torquier than a 350 SBO because it has a longer stroke, 3.480 vs 3.385.
But the Olds makes more torque down low for two basic reasons, it has smaller ports and because of the slightly higher deck, it consequently has intake runners that are a bit longer. That's why they make more torque down low. Put comparable stuff on a 350 SBC and it'll make comparable power, at a similar rpm.
By doing EFI you learn a lot about fuel curves, ignition timing requirements and so on. I've never dynoed it but buy the amount of fuel my EFI'd 350 is using (through my VE table) I know I'm making about 360-375hp. It takes X amount of fuel to make X amount of hp/tq, plain and simple.
But the Olds makes more torque down low for two basic reasons, it has smaller ports and because of the slightly higher deck, it consequently has intake runners that are a bit longer. That's why they make more torque down low. Put comparable stuff on a 350 SBC and it'll make comparable power, at a similar rpm.
By doing EFI you learn a lot about fuel curves, ignition timing requirements and so on. I've never dynoed it but buy the amount of fuel my EFI'd 350 is using (through my VE table) I know I'm making about 360-375hp. It takes X amount of fuel to make X amount of hp/tq, plain and simple.
July 13th, 2012, 03:20 PM
#21
Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 7,286
You left out the bottom end halo girdle:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150646769737...84.m1555.l2649
You can make your own for a lot less, poster board does not cost that much. Comparable quality to the "steel" ones sold on epay, as you see.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150646769737...84.m1555.l2649
You can make your own for a lot less, poster board does not cost that much. Comparable quality to the "steel" ones sold on epay, as you see.
July 13th, 2012, 03:43 PM
#22
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
You left out the bottom end halo girdle:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150646769737...84.m1555.l2649
You can make your own for a lot less, poster board does not cost that much. Comparable quality to the "steel" ones sold on epay, as you see.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/150646769737...84.m1555.l2649
You can make your own for a lot less, poster board does not cost that much. Comparable quality to the "steel" ones sold on epay, as you see.
July 13th, 2012, 04:30 PM
#23
Out of Line, Everytime😉
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melville, Saskatchewan
Posts: 8,919
What are you guys opinions on thin ring packs vs the factory style thick rings? Some claim better oil control, less wear and more power. I know the Probe and CP pistons are lighter and use the thin ring pack. The custom 403 pistons I have are also have the thinner design.
July 13th, 2012, 06:10 PM
#24
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,828
[QUOTE=coppercutlass;427882]This sounds about right. For price I'm building mine at the moment and so far I'm right under 3800 but I'm sure it will go up with other stuff I need. Since a few of you guys might k now I figured is ask. Who offers a windage tray for an sbo. Is the advantage worht it. I am going to. 7qt pan. I'm using the studs from milodon.[/QUOTE]
Hope you checked the align bore after you installed the studs.
Hope you checked the align bore after you installed the studs.
July 14th, 2012, 05:15 AM
#26
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,130
By doing EFI you learn a lot about fuel curves, ignition timing requirements and so on. I've never dynoed it but buy the amount of fuel my EFI'd 350 is using (through my VE table) I know I'm making about 360-375hp. It takes X amount of fuel to make X amount of hp/tq, plain and simple.
July 14th, 2012, 06:46 AM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,828
I hear you nick but let me explain.
My efi shows VE, volumetric efficiency.
It also shows pounds of fuel used. On every application that I've dynoed, comparing and calculating the VE and fuel used has ALWAYS come in within 5-10% of what the dyno showed. In my book that's hard to argue.
My efi shows VE, volumetric efficiency.
It also shows pounds of fuel used. On every application that I've dynoed, comparing and calculating the VE and fuel used has ALWAYS come in within 5-10% of what the dyno showed. In my book that's hard to argue.
July 14th, 2012, 11:51 AM
#30
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,703
Why don't you measure for them? Measure the thread depth in the block and then the height of the main cap and nut. Then add the length for the thin windage tray with another nut on top. I'm sure ARP will make a stud the correct length.
July 14th, 2012, 12:04 PM
#31
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Iowa
Posts: 1,130
I hear you nick but let me explain.
My efi shows VE, volumetric efficiency.
It also shows pounds of fuel used. On every application that I've dynoed, comparing and calculating the VE and fuel used has ALWAYS come in within 5-10% of what the dyno showed. In my book that's hard to argue.
My efi shows VE, volumetric efficiency.
It also shows pounds of fuel used. On every application that I've dynoed, comparing and calculating the VE and fuel used has ALWAYS come in within 5-10% of what the dyno showed. In my book that's hard to argue.
My heads flow an honest 332 cfm and produced 729HP.......funny how that works eh?
July 14th, 2012, 01:01 PM
#32
Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,398
July 15th, 2012, 08:18 AM
#34
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Central Fl
Posts: 7,828
I'm still not buying more fuel=more HP. The VE varies from engine to engine. Every engine has different components ie......head flow, valve size, cam, intake (spacers) and carb. Actually going by head flow numbers is more accurate. As long as you have an effecient engine, the head flow dictates the HP. A good builder can produce 2.1-2.2 HP per intake cfm (with honest cfm). Actually you feel if I throw say 4 jet sizes at my motor, it will produce more power?
My heads flow an honest 332 cfm and produced 729HP.......funny how that works eh?
My heads flow an honest 332 cfm and produced 729HP.......funny how that works eh?
Let me explain further, here's one example.
I did a 408 sbc Chevy with hilborn 2 1/8 stacks. It's on my video, he claimed it made 650hp. I rode in it and questioned the output.
I also did a 427 windsor with the exact same hilborn setup, same injector size, same bore size etc. it made 621 on the dyno, and guess what, it used a lot more fuel. Both had ported heads, 1 better than the other obviously. Both had similar cams. In fact the Chevy had a bigger one, necessitating more fuel, but still used less than the ford.
I've riden in fast cars. That Chevy didn't make near 650hp,
Maybe 550, and the fuel consumption vs the ford mirrored that, virtually perfectly.
Last edited by cutlassefi; July 15th, 2012 at 08:26 AM.
July 27th, 2012, 04:57 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 558
He was talking about the size and shape of SBO deck height/intake runners compared to SBC deck height/intake runners.
Last edited by VinMichael; July 27th, 2012 at 05:01 PM.
July 27th, 2012, 05:55 PM
#36
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
No, he wasn't. He was saying that you can directly correlate the power output to the amount of fuel used. Personally, I don't have the experience to choose a side either way.
July 27th, 2012, 06:19 PM
#37
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 558
Well, 380racer only quoted part of cutlessefi's statement. And no, he did not say it was a correlation. He said that making power requires a cause and effect. If the engine can burn more fuel, then it will make more power.
Last edited by VinMichael; July 27th, 2012 at 06:23 PM.
July 27th, 2012, 06:31 PM
#38
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
"If the engine can burn more fuel, then it will make more power"
I'm not sure I buy that. It can and should make more power, but "will" it with certainty? I don't know.
July 27th, 2012, 06:52 PM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 558
I apologize. He did not say anything about his engine making "more" power. what I think efi means by his statement is: If his efi'd engine burns a certain amount of fuel, then it produces a certain amount of power.
So if this did happen, it would not be any kind of "rule" or anything, but something which occurred with efi's engine. Not any other engine necessarily.
So if this did happen, it would not be any kind of "rule" or anything, but something which occurred with efi's engine. Not any other engine necessarily.
Last edited by VinMichael; July 27th, 2012 at 06:58 PM.
July 27th, 2012, 07:54 PM
#40
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,703
I apologize. He did not say anything about his engine making "more" power. what I think efi means by his statement is: If his efi'd engine burns a certain amount of fuel, then it produces a certain amount of power.
So if this did happen, it would not be any kind of "rule" or anything, but something which occurred with efi's engine. Not any other engine necessarily.
So if this did happen, it would not be any kind of "rule" or anything, but something which occurred with efi's engine. Not any other engine necessarily.
