Olds 350 Head problem
Thread Starter
http://www.youtube.com/wa
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 291
Olds 350 Head problem
I want to build my olds engine and get about over 400hp/400tq. My mechanic keep telling me to build a chevy 350 and put it in and keep the olds. He says its a better engine to build because the olds heads are really bad and there's not much that can be done to them. What can I do to my 7 a heads he said I can't put in seats if I put in over sized valves. Please help really don't want a chevy in my olds.
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 11,898
From: Brazil Indiana
first thing you need to do is find a mechanic that understands Oldsmobile engines. this one will cost you more money in his lack of olds knowledge.
Last edited by jensenracing77; Jul 7, 2011 at 06:46 PM.
Thread Starter
http://www.youtube.com/wa
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 291
Well he is a very nice guy and is just telling me that chevy 350 gets more of the moneys worth because there are so many parts and are cheap. I just want opinions here so I can tell him and hope I can build a nice olds 350.
Connoisseur d'Junque
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,183
From: The Hudson Valley
If you are paying somebody to do a demanding, difficult, complicated, detailed job for you, it is not your job to educate him. If he's such a nice guy, then have a beer with him.
Just DO NOT let him near your car.
Either find someone who is already an expert on Olds engines, or read up, become an expert, and do it yourself.
This will end badly.
- Eric
Just DO NOT let him near your car.
Either find someone who is already an expert on Olds engines, or read up, become an expert, and do it yourself.
This will end badly.
- Eric
Thread Starter
http://www.youtube.com/wa
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 291
Well this thread is so that I can get a good idea of what to do to the heads. Also he is helping me assemble my own first engine and he is a very experienced mechanic, building the chevy is cheaper and I can get more hp and the olds will need more money and good heads are not made for the olds 350.
Connoisseur d'Junque
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,183
From: The Hudson Valley
If you want to build a chev. engine to put in your Olds, that's your business, but remember, as has been painfully described in other threads here, it's not as simple to put it in as you may think it is, and there will be a lot of incidental expenses that will add up, and will likely eliminate the savings you think you'll be seeing.
If you want all-out power (like a blown 500+cid), or modern characteristics (like an LS), the you may not mind the extra expense, but if you are looking for power and performance along the lines of what is obtainable with an old-style Olds motor, then you won't be saving with the Chev. in the long run.
- Eric
If you want all-out power (like a blown 500+cid), or modern characteristics (like an LS), the you may not mind the extra expense, but if you are looking for power and performance along the lines of what is obtainable with an old-style Olds motor, then you won't be saving with the Chev. in the long run.
- Eric
Connoisseur d'Junque
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 21,183
From: The Hudson Valley
I am not an expert engine builder, so I will leave the specifics to others to elucidate.
I will say, though, that the way to go about this is to decide where you want to go first, then decide how you want to do it second.
What kind of motor do you want to have? What kind of power and torque curves and levels? What kind of idle? Automatic or manual? High-stall or normal stall? What kind of driving? Daily driver, weekend cruiser, occasional track runs, or trailered track car? What kind or rear do you have or plan to get? You get the idea. When you can present all of that information, others can give you good advice about how to obtain it (or whether it is possible). The stock Olds heads, especially with some minor modifications, are perfectly fine for a quick, fun muscle car, but it's true that you've got to do a lot to them to get them to flow like some other makes. The thing is that you only see flow levels like these in all-out high-revving applications that you won't encounter away from the track, so in most cases, it just doesn't matter.
Would anyone else like to add anything?
- Eric
I will say, though, that the way to go about this is to decide where you want to go first, then decide how you want to do it second.
What kind of motor do you want to have? What kind of power and torque curves and levels? What kind of idle? Automatic or manual? High-stall or normal stall? What kind of driving? Daily driver, weekend cruiser, occasional track runs, or trailered track car? What kind or rear do you have or plan to get? You get the idea. When you can present all of that information, others can give you good advice about how to obtain it (or whether it is possible). The stock Olds heads, especially with some minor modifications, are perfectly fine for a quick, fun muscle car, but it's true that you've got to do a lot to them to get them to flow like some other makes. The thing is that you only see flow levels like these in all-out high-revving applications that you won't encounter away from the track, so in most cases, it just doesn't matter.
Would anyone else like to add anything?
- Eric
Thread Starter
http://www.youtube.com/wa
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 291
I have a 1972 olds 350 with 7 a heads. I want around 400hp/400tq to the wheels. Its a turbo 350 but I might put in a 700r4 and high stall. Its mostly a weekend cruiser and will have track runs in the future. I have a 10 bolt rear end and will decided on the gears depending on which transmission I keep.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 136
From: under the hood
I am not an expert engine builder, so I will leave the specifics to others to elucidate.
I will say, though, that the way to go about this is to decide where you want to go first, then decide how you want to do it second.
What kind of motor do you want to have? What kind of power and torque curves and levels? What kind of idle? Automatic or manual? High-stall or normal stall? What kind of driving? Daily driver, weekend cruiser, occasional track runs, or trailered track car? What kind or rear do you have or plan to get? You get the idea. When you can present all of that information, others can give you good advice about how to obtain it (or whether it is possible). The stock Olds heads, especially with some minor modifications, are perfectly fine for a quick, fun muscle car, but it's true that you've got to do a lot to them to get them to flow like some other makes. The thing is that you only see flow levels like these in all-out high-revving applications that you won't encounter away from the track, so in most cases, it just doesn't matter.
Would anyone else like to add anything?
- Eric
I will say, though, that the way to go about this is to decide where you want to go first, then decide how you want to do it second.
What kind of motor do you want to have? What kind of power and torque curves and levels? What kind of idle? Automatic or manual? High-stall or normal stall? What kind of driving? Daily driver, weekend cruiser, occasional track runs, or trailered track car? What kind or rear do you have or plan to get? You get the idea. When you can present all of that information, others can give you good advice about how to obtain it (or whether it is possible). The stock Olds heads, especially with some minor modifications, are perfectly fine for a quick, fun muscle car, but it's true that you've got to do a lot to them to get them to flow like some other makes. The thing is that you only see flow levels like these in all-out high-revving applications that you won't encounter away from the track, so in most cases, it just doesn't matter.
Would anyone else like to add anything?
- Eric
is because you hit it right on the $$$.
theoldsrocket
is there a reason you want 400 / 400 hp/ tq or are those just bragging # to throw around.
you need to put a complete package together to hit those #s with what ever brand you use.
you could use the stock size valves and port the heads, fill the heat cross over,
mill the head gasket side to bump compression. roller rockers. screw in studs, but all
this on an engine that is stock isnt goin to gain you much. what is the plan for the rest of the engine? flat top pistons, roller cam, torker intake, turbo charger, ?????
Registered User
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,226
From: Central IN
X2
A SBO is a great engine....but its not a SBC.
I am not an expert engine builder, so I will leave the specifics to others to elucidate.
I will say, though, that the way to go about this is to decide where you want to go first, then decide how you want to do it second.
What kind of motor do you want to have? What kind of power and torque curves and levels? What kind of idle? Automatic or manual? High-stall or normal stall? What kind of driving? Daily driver, weekend cruiser, occasional track runs, or trailered track car? What kind or rear do you have or plan to get? You get the idea. When you can present all of that information, others can give you good advice about how to obtain it (or whether it is possible). The stock Olds heads, especially with some minor modifications, are perfectly fine for a quick, fun muscle car, but it's true that you've got to do a lot to them to get them to flow like some other makes. The thing is that you only see flow levels like these in all-out high-revving applications that you won't encounter away from the track, so in most cases, it just doesn't matter.
Would anyone else like to add anything?
- Eric
I will say, though, that the way to go about this is to decide where you want to go first, then decide how you want to do it second.
What kind of motor do you want to have? What kind of power and torque curves and levels? What kind of idle? Automatic or manual? High-stall or normal stall? What kind of driving? Daily driver, weekend cruiser, occasional track runs, or trailered track car? What kind or rear do you have or plan to get? You get the idea. When you can present all of that information, others can give you good advice about how to obtain it (or whether it is possible). The stock Olds heads, especially with some minor modifications, are perfectly fine for a quick, fun muscle car, but it's true that you've got to do a lot to them to get them to flow like some other makes. The thing is that you only see flow levels like these in all-out high-revving applications that you won't encounter away from the track, so in most cases, it just doesn't matter.
Would anyone else like to add anything?
- Eric
Thread Starter
http://www.youtube.com/wa
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 291
X20000000, I may have copy and keep this answer. the reason no one else posted (probably)
is because you hit it right on the $$$.
theoldsrocket
is there a reason you want 400 / 400 hp/ tq or are those just bragging # to throw around.
you need to put a complete package together to hit those #s with what ever brand you use.
you could use the stock size valves and port the heads, fill the heat cross over,
mill the head gasket side to bump compression. roller rockers. screw in studs, but all
this on an engine that is stock isnt goin to gain you much. what is the plan for the rest of the engine? flat top pistons, roller cam, torker intake, turbo charger, ?????
is because you hit it right on the $$$.
theoldsrocket
is there a reason you want 400 / 400 hp/ tq or are those just bragging # to throw around.
you need to put a complete package together to hit those #s with what ever brand you use.
you could use the stock size valves and port the heads, fill the heat cross over,
mill the head gasket side to bump compression. roller rockers. screw in studs, but all
this on an engine that is stock isnt goin to gain you much. what is the plan for the rest of the engine? flat top pistons, roller cam, torker intake, turbo charger, ?????
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 492
From: Dahlonega, GA
the first thing you need to understand is for 400hp/400tq to the wheels means you need around a 550hp motor. even for a SBC that is asking alot if you want to drive it daily. even for a big block chevy thats a stout motor.
One of None W-31
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 671
From: Texas
400 HP at the rear wheels on an Olds 350 with those heads is impossible unless you are willing to just make the motor into something that doesn't even resemble the motor you began with. There are build ups of some 350 Olds motos w/ more than 400 HP at the flywheel, just search them out, they are posted on this site somewhere. You can kiss the "weekend cruiser" and "Streetable" car idea goodbye if you want those numbers. I'm using the heads you are describing and have had big block valves put in, lots of porting done, etc. Here's my build up for an EVERYDAY driver:
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold
Edelbrock Performer Carburetor (600CFM 4 barrel).
Edelbrock carburetor insulator gasket (0.320")
Edelbrock True Roller timing chain
Comp Cams Camshaft XE262H(Duration @.050 218/224 Lift 475"/.480" LSA110)
Forged flat top pistons/rings (by Diamond) from Dick Miller Racing
W-31 stainless steel valves (2" intake, 1.625" exhaust)
Head porting (pocket) 3 angle valve job, tear drop valve guides
Sanderson Headers (Part # 0351—shorty type)
3.42 Posi track (originally 2.56 open)
TCI Torque converter 2400 stall (Breakaway # 241100)
Transgo shift kit #2
MSD Pro-Billet Distributor and MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coil
MSD Super Conductor spark plug wires (8.5mm)
Walker Dynomax turbo mufflers/dual exhaust (originally single)
Spectre Performance Air Filter w/ Spectre Air Filter lid
Bored 60 over, 10.5:1 compression ratio
I DO NOT recommend the 10.5:1 comp ratio for the street. I over did it, thinking I'd be safe on 93 octane. Car has some detonation issues on occaision. To be safe, try to stay in the 9.75:1 area. Even at 4000lbs my car runs down the street very quickly. Here's a video to show you what my set up will do. http://www.oldsmobilecentral.com/201...unch-video.php You can always go with more stall, steeper gears, larger cam,etc. if you want more HP than my car has, but streetability and $$$ at the gas pump come into play.
Edelbrock Performer RPM intake manifold
Edelbrock Performer Carburetor (600CFM 4 barrel).
Edelbrock carburetor insulator gasket (0.320")
Edelbrock True Roller timing chain
Comp Cams Camshaft XE262H(Duration @.050 218/224 Lift 475"/.480" LSA110)
Forged flat top pistons/rings (by Diamond) from Dick Miller Racing
W-31 stainless steel valves (2" intake, 1.625" exhaust)
Head porting (pocket) 3 angle valve job, tear drop valve guides
Sanderson Headers (Part # 0351—shorty type)
3.42 Posi track (originally 2.56 open)
TCI Torque converter 2400 stall (Breakaway # 241100)
Transgo shift kit #2
MSD Pro-Billet Distributor and MSD Blaster 2 Ignition Coil
MSD Super Conductor spark plug wires (8.5mm)
Walker Dynomax turbo mufflers/dual exhaust (originally single)
Spectre Performance Air Filter w/ Spectre Air Filter lid
Bored 60 over, 10.5:1 compression ratio
I DO NOT recommend the 10.5:1 comp ratio for the street. I over did it, thinking I'd be safe on 93 octane. Car has some detonation issues on occaision. To be safe, try to stay in the 9.75:1 area. Even at 4000lbs my car runs down the street very quickly. Here's a video to show you what my set up will do. http://www.oldsmobilecentral.com/201...unch-video.php You can always go with more stall, steeper gears, larger cam,etc. if you want more HP than my car has, but streetability and $$$ at the gas pump come into play.
Last edited by 71 Cutlass; Jul 7, 2011 at 10:13 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,384
From: Union City Calif.94587
Get all the info you need from these guys.......
http://www.btrperformance.com/
www.jsmachineoldsmobile.com
http://wiseperformanceengineering.vpweb.com/
http://www.mjproformance.com/
http://www.rocketracingperformance.com/
http://www.btrperformance.com/
www.jsmachineoldsmobile.com
http://wiseperformanceengineering.vpweb.com/
http://www.mjproformance.com/
http://www.rocketracingperformance.com/
Last edited by 64Rocket; Jul 7, 2011 at 10:43 PM.
One of None W-31
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 671
From: Texas
http://www.rocketracingperformance.com/
X2 on Rocket Racing. John Stolpa had lots of input on my build and provided parts as well.
X2 on Rocket Racing. John Stolpa had lots of input on my build and provided parts as well.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,484
From: Central Fl
http://www.rocketracingperformance.com/
X2 on Rocket Racing. John Stolpa had lots of input on my build and provided parts as well.
X2 on Rocket Racing. John Stolpa had lots of input on my build and provided parts as well.
Last edited by cutlassefi; Jul 8, 2011 at 05:20 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,484
From: Central Fl
If you are paying somebody to do a demanding, difficult, complicated, detailed job for you, it is not your job to educate him. If he's such a nice guy, then have a beer with him.
Just DO NOT let him near your car.
Either find someone who is already an expert on Olds engines, or read up, become an expert, and do it yourself.
This will end badly.
- Eric
Just DO NOT let him near your car.
Either find someone who is already an expert on Olds engines, or read up, become an expert, and do it yourself.
This will end badly.
- Eric
oldsrocket- 400hp/tq at the crank is very doable as I've said in my pm's. However if you're looking for 400 at the wheels that's a different story. Most people don't know what 400 crankshaft hp feels like, it's pretty stout. If you really need to have 400 at the wheels then just drop in a built 455, I wouldn't even fool with any 350 at that point.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,250
300 RWHP should put you into the high 12s, how fast do you need to go??
Find a guy who is experienced with older iron heads. A lot of shops don't want to mess with them, aluminum is so much easier to port. A quality valve job with larger intake valves, some bowl work, dividers welded and crossovers filled with new liners and a clean-up cut will cost close to $1,000 for the pair. Compare that to brand new aluminum SBC heads. But, if you want an Olds, that is what we have to deal with.
Find a guy who is experienced with older iron heads. A lot of shops don't want to mess with them, aluminum is so much easier to port. A quality valve job with larger intake valves, some bowl work, dividers welded and crossovers filled with new liners and a clean-up cut will cost close to $1,000 for the pair. Compare that to brand new aluminum SBC heads. But, if you want an Olds, that is what we have to deal with.
Old(s) Fart
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 50,802
From: Northern VA
Run, don't walk, away. He has no idea what can or cannot be done with Olds heads. The valve spacing on the SBO heads is exactly the same as on the BBO heads and people have no problems installing hardened seats in BBO heads that use 2.070/1.625 valves.
Registered User
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 154
From: Houma, Louisiana
Well put Eric.
oldsrocket- 400hp/tq at the crank is very doable as I've said in my pm's. However if you're looking for 400 at the wheels that's a different story. Most people don't know what 400 crankshaft hp feels like, it's pretty stout. If you really need to have 400 at the wheels then just drop in a built 455, I wouldn't even fool with any 350 at that point.
oldsrocket- 400hp/tq at the crank is very doable as I've said in my pm's. However if you're looking for 400 at the wheels that's a different story. Most people don't know what 400 crankshaft hp feels like, it's pretty stout. If you really need to have 400 at the wheels then just drop in a built 455, I wouldn't even fool with any 350 at that point.
Chevy budget Olds powered
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,638
From: Elgin, Illinois
talk to john at rocket racing he did my heads very happy with the work he did as for your build you got to remember you drive tq. and you hp is usually on the big end if you want something that shreads tires build something with tq in mind hp numbers are numbers do you plan on racing it or crusing it or dual purpose use remember big cams dont always help specially on the street the need bigger converters more gear to to work on the big end if you wanna have a strong car i would say a comp cam for you needs once you decide gear and converter for the street i would say 2500 stall and 3.73 gear cruises good depending on you tire size with good compression 9.75 to 1 and thats where your build should start what you want to do and how you want it to drive the cam should be picked with your tire,gear and stall combo along with what your intake restrict you to with some nice parts like ignition roller valve train etc etc etc too much to list you will have a good runner
One of None W-31
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 671
From: Texas
You've made an incorrect assumption. He never knew that I was going to make the decision to go for 10.5:1 CR. When he and I spoke, the plan was to try and stay just at the brink high 9s- 10 max. It was later when I made decisions that would control the CR. As I've posted before, I went too high...it was my mistake. Read my post above, it clearly says "I over did it."
Last edited by 71 Cutlass; Jul 8, 2011 at 09:22 PM.
NOVICE car nut
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,140
From: Milwaukee Wisconsin
I dont know beans about the internal portion of an Old's motor , but after being here on this site for about a year now , I realize that these guys REALLY know what they are talking about.....especially Joe P......even though I argued with these guys a few times and may not be liked very much here , I would listen to them in a heartbeat.
Last edited by oldsguybry; Jul 8, 2011 at 10:02 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,484
From: Central Fl
You've made an incorrect assumption. He never knew that I was going to make the decision to go for 10.5:1 CR. When he and I spoke, the plan was to try and stay just at the brink high 9s- 10 max. It was later when I made decisions that would control the CR. As I've posted before, I went too high...it was my mistake. Read my post above, it clearly says "I over did it."
One of None W-31
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 671
From: Texas
Hahaha yea, Unfortunately I always means me. I'll scream AAAAAHHHHH from the gararge, and my wife, who always fears that a jack stand will give way or something will come racing out of the house. "What is it?" The reply is always the same, "I just screwed something up, now this job is going to take twice as long!!!!!"
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,145
From: Far Northeast Philadelphia, PA
I raced a guy at at the 2008 Buick Olds Pontaic day at Englishtown, NJ with an 87 Cutlass with a 355 SBC in it.
He told me that there are no preformance parts for an Olds motor. I told him he didn't know where to look.
Nice guy, but it was the last race in the Oldsmobile Class, and let's just say, the Chevy in the Olds didn't win
Did I forget to mention that I won the 2008 Oldsmobile Class that year
He told me that there are no preformance parts for an Olds motor. I told him he didn't know where to look.
Nice guy, but it was the last race in the Oldsmobile Class, and let's just say, the Chevy in the Olds didn't win
Did I forget to mention that I won the 2008 Oldsmobile Class that year
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