Oldsmaniac

No because stock cams/engine combos for Olds is termed "non-interferance" so the valves wont hit the pistons.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Cool! Thanks, I learned something new today!

So i'm DEFINITELY going to change my timing chain (i've been talking about it for a year now) I've ordered the C3006K Cloyes off rockauto (supposedly 350 Olds chain set), and also the timing gasket set that Eric (MDmechanic) suggested.

But i've had this problem before.

I would set the timing, 10 degrees BTDC, the car would run PERFECTLY.

All of a sudden one day, BAM timing would change by 30 degrees and i'd have to rotate the rotor.... I was thinking that my distributor hold down bolt was bad...

MDchanic

Sounds like your timing chain has been misbehaving for some time.

I agree with the others - when you get an odd sound when cranking - either too "lumpy" or too "easy" the chain has probably jumped.

And if you were going to bend the valves, you would have done it already while cranking - no need for the engine to actually start. As the others have said, it's unlikely, but it DID happen to me once, on a 10.25:1 1970 350 with 106,000 miles, so it IS possible.

If it is your timing chain, you will probably be very happy with the results after you replace it. Don't forget to replace the water pump as well while you have it apart, since it'll be off anyway, unless of course you changed it recently, or it's a really fancy one in great shape.

Good luck!

- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

My water pump was replaced by the previous owner, and based on current events, i dont trust ANYTHING he did....

So stuff that's on the way.

Cardone Reman Water Pump (Non A/C) 58294
Gasket set you mentioned the other day TCS45270
Cloyes C3006K Timing Set

Apart from the harmonic balancer puller, is there anything else special i should need?

I'm probably going to try the "blip the starter with the breaker bar on the ground" Trick you mentioned. Since i dont have an impact.

Any cautions that you might suggest for me? So i dont crush myself under an oil pan or something..

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I just noticed you answered some stuff in another thread. Appreciate the help!

I indeed have a torque wrench so i'll definitely be using that to reasemble.

Good thing i also have some gold engine paint left over too. Should cover the water pump and surrounding areas.

MDchanic

I wouldn't worry about the oil pan, but I'd be cautious about the breaker bar and the crank bolt - if possible, wire a remote start button, or have an assistant blip the starter, so you can see what's going on (stay well away) in case something bad happens. You might want to tie the handle of the wrench to a frame member if one is nearby, to avoid it's shifting position and popping off under load. All you want to do is turn it about ⅛ to ¼ of a turn, just to break it loose.

Of course, be sure the coil's disconnected - you wouldn't want the car to start .

- Eric

RetroRanger

go Tony

Im watching this as the TC is on the short list for my by all appearences stock 72 350

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Thanks Dean,

I'm kind of quite nervous about doing the timing chain, but Supposedly CLOYES is really good and accurate (line up the marks on the gears and fire 'er up).

The 72 350 Set from cloyes was a really good price at rockauto. Here is what i bought.

A-1 CARDONE58294 (58-294)Water Pump $22.79

CLOYESC3006KTiming Set $16.91

FEL-PROTCS45270Timing Cover Gasket Set $12.49

Discount $ -2.61
ShippingGround$ 8.15
Order Total $ 57.73

Tony72Cutlass'S'

To avoid having to buy doubles of tools, will a steering wheel puller work on a harmonic balancer?

Do i need an installer to install the balancer? Or can i use a 2x4 and a BFH?

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Nevermind, stupid question, i was just looking at my balancer, it clearly has 3 bolt holes where the puller goes, i'm guessing each 60 degrees apart.

So. my two bolt steering wheel puller wouldn't work even if it was strong enough.

Oldsmaniac

Some steering wheel pullers are also balancer pullers. Only 2 bolts are used on the balancer so you could give it a try. The balancer puller holes are actually the holes for the pulley and there should be 4 of those.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Cool!

Thanks for the info, i didnt know it was simply the pulley bolt holes.

I might get a gear puller anyway (For the gears on the inside)

What size would i need? They have different pullers, 3'' 4'' and 6'' at my local store, all for around 10 -15 dollars.

Oldsmaniac

Most times the lower crank timing gear will slide off or pry off easily..... dont buy anything till you are sure it is needed.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Ok Cool, i have a rubber mallot and a couple wedges i could use for leverage.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

So i FINALLY got that blasted pulley and spacer off. Here is what i currently have to work with...

So far removed. Top place, fan, water pump pulley and spacer. Also added a little hose in the bottom so i can drain my coolant into jugs or whatever i can find.

64Rocket

There is 4 bolts that hold the lower pulley onto the balancer. 1/2 " socket and 3/8 ratchet will do.
You will have to take the p/s pump and brackets off.
all the hoses.
the fuel pump.
you should get a heavy duty puller/installer.
i don't think you will have room to put the balancer back on with the wood and hammer.
You will need to take the 4 lower bolts, (9/16 socket) off the cover.
with the pump off and the lower bolts, you will have to pry the front cover off.
I take the oil pan bolts lose as far back as I can. I think the first 4 on each side.
A 9/16 socket will take the cam bolt off.
I would bring the #1 piston up to TDC.
Now you need to figure out how to turn the cam to make the alignment with the crank gear.
When you put the front cover back on with the oil pan still in place. I trim the rubber ends off the seal for the oil pan. Now with some sealer in each corner and frt cover gasket in place, I use the lower bolts for the cover and squeeze the front cover back on. Now you can tighten the oil pan bolts also. I think the front crank balencer seal is in the kit , might replace that also. Make sure you pick the correct gasket for the water pump. They usually come with a couple of gaskets.
Now you can put it all back together.
Like I said, there may not be room to swing the hammer on the wood to put the balencer back on.
You will need to put something in the flywheel to keep the engine from turning when you go to torque the balencer bolt.
Good luck

Gene

MDchanic

Now would be a good time to do that.
It's tough with no bolt on the end of the crank, no timing mark on the timing cover, and no balancer mark to line up with.
You should also confirm your timing mark now, just in case it moved at some point in the past.

Or use the rope-in-the-cylinder trick.

- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Great description! I'm definitely going to need it!

Right now i'm working on draining my coolant system, do i need to jack up the rear tires to make sure i get all of it out??

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Ahhh, Rope in the cylinder, i used that on a motorcycle engine a couple years back.

But eric, lets say i have the bolt on, and i line up the timing mark to #1 TDC, don't i have to blip the starter to get the bolt off? Then i'll just loose the spot again...

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Can i use the rope in the cylinder trick to loosen the crank bolt??

Im having a heck of a time trying to get that thing loose, i'm worried that if i use the "blip the starter" trick, that i'll loose my timing mark and not know where TDC is...

MDchanic

Yeah, I guess you would lose that alignment if you use the starter technique to loosen the bolt.
That would leave you to reinstall the bolt without the balancer and confirm TDC with a suitable instrument later (bolt in spark plug base, dial indicator with long reach, screwdriver or pencil if you've got a good eye and aren't going to try to get it perfect...).

You can definitely use the rope in the cylinder trick to losen the damper bolt - it should work fine, but you'll need to give a really hard pull on a long wrench, because the rope is soft and you'll lose all "shock" value that would normally help "jar" the bolt loose.

- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Cool,

Thanks Eric, that rope in the cylinder trick really sounds great, my 1/2'' wrench doesn't hit the floor so i can't really use the starter to loosen it.

Now, to the shed to try to find some nylon rope! Actually i think i have a Buoy somewhere with quite a bit of rope of it.. hmmmmmm

Oldsmaniac

I have had success with putting a breaker bar or pipe on the wrench for the balancer bolt and just hit it hard and quickly a few times and the bolt usually comes loose.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Boy oh boy i was trying that for about a half hour! Darn thing wouldn't come loose at all!

MDchanic

That ain't gonna do it, unless you're last name is Schwartzenegger.

You need a 30" or 36" breaker bar, or you need to put a pipe over your wrench.

- Eric

oldsguybry

X2
even old Schwartzenegger can't do that anymore !

Tony72Cutlass'S'

I GOT THAT DARNED BOLT OFF!!!! An hour of fighting, ended up ratchet strapping the torque wrench on the highest sitting to my sway bar.

Had to give the starter 4 good kicks before the bolt would loosen, AND the car jumped about 6 inches each time i hit the starter! Hows that for torque?

Here is the result.

oldsguybry

Now yell at the bolt in Arnolds voice . Glad ya got it off ! I'm going to have some fun tomorrow dealing with some repairs of my own .... maybe we can have a race

MDchanic

There ya go! And the bolt looks good, too.

While you're there, I'd change that lower radiator hose - it worries me.

- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Hah! You'd probably win, i've been changing my timing chain for a week now....

Here is some progress on the detailing front though, Detailed my rebuilt water pump from cardone.

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Is this a speciail moulded hose of sorts? it seems to have a spring mechanism inside of it?

I think it's an original hose too.... It has the original GM clamps on the radiator side...

MDchanic

Yes, it's a specific hose.
Just go down to the auto parts store and get one. They probably won't have it in stock, and will be able to order it for first thing the next day.

If the new one doesn't come with the spring inside, pull the spring out of the old one and put it in the new one (twist clockwise as you pull or push).

- Eric

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Who wants to see how nice and taught my chain was?

Tony72Cutlass'S'

And, a picture of my puller mechanism. I threaded the bolt back in a couple threads and pulled it off, surprisingly it came off real easy.

oldcutlass

Looks like you got it licked, well done!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Thanks! its taken me a couple days to get this far...

Now i need to figure out how to get that blasted crank gear off... Should it just slide off once i remove the pump?

Tony72Cutlass'S'

MAN is that timing gear stubborn.... Any ideas?? it moves about 1/2 inch along the shaft and then gets stuck....

at which point when i crank it further, it just starts turning the crank..

Rickman48

If you're talking about the crank gear, get a cold chisel and break it at the keyway!
Couple - three wacks with a BFH will do it, on the front edge, then you can pull it off with your fingers!
Little tip - knock down the cooked oil, etc. with some emery cloth or sandpaper, so the new one slides right on!!
And don't drop the key!

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Exactly! the crank gear backs off about 1/2'' with the puller and then just sticks. ..

So it moves back and forth about 1/2 inch... except i can't pull it off further, maybe I'm missing something...

Rickman48

Just crack it!!
It'll slide off!!