coppercutlass

Ok just a simple question. Will the turkey tray work with the eddy rpm intake. I have an o.e. turkey tray in the gm box and id rather use it than buy a new set. The new engine leaks at the end rails. I think i skimpped a little on the silicone at the corners where it's leaking from.

joe_padavano

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ld-gasket.html

coppercutlass

Thats somewhat vauge. It's for the performer. I have the performer rpm. I might just but the individual shim gaskets. I had great sealing with them last time. This time i went with the fiber gasktes .060 vs. the thin shim gaskets which would leave less of a gap at the rail . I think. lol. I"ll dry fit the intake with the turkey trayand go from there.

1970-W30

I used the turkey tray metal intake gasket on my recent 403 project and also have the Performer RPM, had no problems. I did not use the end rail rubber seals, just black silicone. This was with #5 350 heads. The turkey tray does keep most all of the hot oil away from, and prevents the caked on crud, on the bottom of the intake after a period of time.

coppercutlass

I also never use the end rails I also didnt know about using the ultra black i always used the red high heat stuff. I have also used the blue with no failure. that is untill this time around. I think i was a little shy to put too much as i have more money than i have ever put into an engine with this new one. thanks i will probably use the turkey tray.

olds 307 and 403

I like the turkey tray, self aligning. I have used all the different RTV's with success.

coppercutlass

I did a quick fix last night drive it today and it still leaks out. Less but leaks nonetheless. Im gonna fix it this week so that by the weekend i can take it for a drive.

M-14

Right stuff rtv is the best.

coppercutlass

I think application is a good key thing with any high heat rtv. Like i mentioned i think i skimped on the very corners of the sealing surface where the intake mates with the rail and heads. I traced the leak to those corners in the rear. I think with the shim gasket being much thinner it will also create a tighter sealing surface so to speak vs. the thicker fiber gaskets. This is the first time i used fiber gaskets i always have used shim gaskets the individual ones with out the center tray, and i have used one complete tray with good success.

Vistabrat72

The turkey pan has worked well for my application (350 with the Performer intake) without leaks by being sure to use enough silicone seal - black stuff - to fill in any voids in the joints and possible gaps in the corners. I did use the supplied rubber end seals as well, totally dry. Believe me, I was quite dubious due to the turkey pan looking so thin, but by using the blue goop in the intake runners as suggested and the silicone around the water passages as instructed, so far, so good. I am sure the thin turkey pan allows the intake manifold to sit that much closer to the deck, thus making for a tighter seal regardless then the thicker fiber gaskets.

BIGJERR

I don't use the turkey tray.....the only reason is if the motor stays together for a long period of time the metal of the tray will corrode the aluminum of the intake......the number of years this would take is arguable........I have never had a end seal leak,3/4 inch of RTV on each end.....Never had a problem.......You'll blow her up before the intake corrodes ! lol


On a 455 it has a built in splash guard over the cam so a turkay try is not needed....

coppercutlass

jerr this engine will probably only see a season of racing before i button up the nitrous motor thats in the works. Although so far this motor runs great on the street i might change my mind. It's street manners are great. Yeah i didnt use enough rtv. I was a little shy to over do it and it bit me in the ***. I have a turket tray so im using that since i dont have to spend anything lol. Also nothing stays in my car long enough to corrode i change so much stuff all the time i doubt it will corrode lol. now the blwing it up part that might happen lol. nitrous for the byron race if it stays together .

Vistabrat72

I guess too with frequent checks for accidity and regular coolant changes the chances of corrosion may be negated with the dissimilar metals. I have seen only tiny traces of corrosion on mine when disassembled and it was because Buddy who had the car before me did not give the most proper care to it in the first place. I saw no further deterioration 4 years later when I pulled the manifold to repair heads with recessed exhaust valve seats. The bad seats were the result of a job being done that was not done as was promised. Live and learn. Howie.

brownbomber77

I'll never use it again with iron heads and aluminum intake, aluminum expands and shrinks faster than iron and can cause problems with a thin metal gasket. I had problems with it and was wondering why my oil kept smelling like gas. You can make your own valley tray outta sheet metal, but I will always use real intake gaskets instead of the turkey tray.

joe_padavano

And yet, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of W-30, W-31, and 307 with A4 and A5 intakes came out of the factory with aluminum intakes, iron heads, steel intake gaskets, and no leakage whatsoever. For that matter, my all-aluminum 215 has aluminum intake AND heads and uses a steel shim intake gasket, again with no leaks.

The steel gasket expands and contracts at virtually the same rate as the iron cylinder head, so how does that lead to leaks? How about a little math? CTE of aluminum is 12.3E-6 in/in/deg F, cast iron is 6E-6, and steel is 7.3E-6. Assume a 2" tall intake port to make the math easy, and expansion from 70 deg when the gasket is installed to 210 deg for a hot motor. That's a 140 deg F temp change. Under those conditions, the intake manifold port grows 0.003 inches in height. The head grows about 0.0015 inches, and the gasket grows 0.002 inches Total difference in height between the aluminum intake and the steel gasket is 0.001 inches.

Math is your friend.

Frankly, I still maintain that the leading cause of turkey tray failure is operator error at installation.

In addition, fuel smell in the oil is usually the result of flooding or over-rich starting, which causes gasoline to wash down the cylinder walls past the rings and has nothing to do with the intake gasket. Considering that the only time fuel is present in the intake, the intake runners are at a LOWER atmospheric pressure than the crankcase, so it would be a miracle of physics if fuel could somehow leak past the intake gasket under those conditions. The common sign of intake gasket failure is sucking oil from the valley into the runners, NOT the other way around.

1970-W30

Good post Joe, I think that pretty well shoots another myth down...... just like the "offset" Supreme engine and solid web 403 myth, sometimes they take on a life of their own if the facts aren't clarified right from the get-go.
I'm pretty sure intake corrosion problems are more of a lack of cooling system maintainence then anything else.

J-(Chicago)

I use the turkey trays, and cut the center out of them, only using the ends. That eliminates the angled bend that can scoot the sealing ends up or down. That is where people have problems and operator errors......Their tray angle is incorrect for whatever reason, and only gets worse when you try bending it by hand. Eliminate that from the equation.
It makes for better port geometry in my opinion as the aftermarket gaskets are usually very thick.

Take a small paint brush, and coat both sides with a light coat of permatex ultra gray, stick it in place and call it a day.

The red/orange and blue rtv's are too slimy to hold it in place. Gray sticks much better.

coppercutlass

Great info guys. Like I said I have used the individual shim gskets, and the full turkey tray both with success. I just didn't know if it would work with the rpm intake. But there is great info here.

joe_padavano

I don't know that I agree with your rationale, but if that's what you want to do, save yourself the trouble of cutting up the full turkey tray and get FelPro MS99471. Unfortunately, these are for SBOs only.



Of course, in their original 330 application, there was a separate oil deflector that bolted into the valley.

coppercutlass

Napa has them and offers them under any sbo application. They looked them as if they where for my 72

J-(Chicago)

Agreed 100%. Also another fun trick is buying Spectre 514 gaskets. When installed regularly, they work on BBO, and if you flip them upside down, they work on SBO. I did this on a 307 with 5a heads once.

oldcutlass

If your going to go through all that trouble of cutting the tray out why not just use FelPro MS9947-1.

J-(Chicago)

Because it doesn't work with big blocks.

coppercutlass

Well I have a turkey tray and a cut off wheel so it's 2 minutes of work . Plus I do save 16 bucks. I'm thriffty like that.

oldcutlass

Looks like we all posted this in couple of minutes, but coppers motor is a SBO.

joe_padavano

Again, the problem with cutting the middle out of the stock gasket is that you loose the oil deflection benefit. As I noted above, installing the gasket as-is without leaks was never a problem for the factory and has never been a problem for me in four decades of building Olds motors.

coppercutlass

I'm not too worried about oil deflection. The test fit will detrmine if I cut it or not. I would have no oil deflection regardless. I'm runing fiber gaskets right now. I'm not saying it will leak or there is a design flaw but I can't run the risk of it leaking . I'm doing this once and I plan on doing it once. The shim gaskets do deform a bit in transit . I did one on a 307 and it worked great. My heads have been milled so that might affect fit not entirely positive.

olds 307 and 403

I always coat the intake ports with aviation glue, Permatex version of Gaskasinch. Then a good amount of RTV on both sides of the water ports. Then tall tall beads on both rails. I used the SCE fiber intake gaskets with my RPM intake. I was not impressed how they moved and blocked part of the port. Never had that issue with the tray. No sign of electrolisis on any of my intakes after years of use. Anti-freeze is better made to work with aluminum than years ago.

70cutty

I really like Mr. Gasket Ultra Seal III.

Absolutely hate the damn turkey tray, I can never get them to stay in place and it gave me 4 stitches.

coppercutlass

the shim gaskets have gotten a piece of myskin too lol but in my case it was my fault and i was loading into the truck. Anywho i used the ultra seals. I just took the intake off and i dry ft the turkey tray and it's all good to go.

coppercutlass

I also read that i can use the copper spray on the intake ports and silicone on the rails and water ports.

joe_padavano

And again, I have NEVER had to jump through these hoops. Just follow the CSM. RTV around both sides of each of the four water ports, period. I let the RTV tack up a little before installing the gasket.

BE SURE the four bosses fit into the four bolt holes in the corners of the gasket. I'm convinced that failure to do this is THE number one reason why people have so much trouble with this. Personally, I remain amazed by all the trouble. Forty years, no problems.

coppercutlass

Here goes nothing. So today i cleaned up the intake and gasket surfaces i applied my silicone let it tack up put the valley pan tray in. So far so good. I put the intake on and snugged it up . I then realize on the dr. side exhaust crossover the liddle ridges that compress to seal the port part of it was exposed. I sure as hell hope it does not leak or tick etc. At that point i said f%$^ it . I guess at this point all i loose is time. And yes all the bolt holes lined up i got all up inside the engine bay and checked with my flashem light.

oldcutlass

You will see some of the shim exposed around the manifold edges. Let the engine go through some heating and cooling cycles and retorque.

coppercutlass

I know the shim is exposed but the ridges that compress to seal some of it is exposed on the dr. side above the intake edge. I have run these before and installed them but never used a valley pan tray on this intake i used individual shim gaskets on the last set up

oldcutlass

Does it look like it might have crept on you, where the bosses might not have seated in the holes? Do you notice a gap?

coppercutlass

they where seated and i checked right before mounting the intake. I think if they werent in the proper location the bolt holes would not line up which is why i checked for proper alignment. The pass was a p.i.t.a to get to stay in position but i got it to stay. I even loosened up the bolts and slid the intake a bit and the gasket did not move the intake slid a bit but not the gasket.

J-(Chicago)

Sometimes a "told ya so" is in order on here. Is this one of those times?

coppercutlass

Lol J I really hope it does not have a massive exhaust leak. a slick tick and i'll live with it. At the point i was it was either clean up about 12 dollars of rtv and make a bigger mess or find out wtf is gonna happen. I did a turkey tray last year on the 307 and it was easy peasy. Some how murphy's law apply's only when i try to do things cautiously . when i dont give a crap nothing goes wrong. Funny how that works.

coppercutlass

Im ordering a set of fiber gaskets just to have in handy.