I installed new points on my '73 Delta 88 with a 350/2-bbl. No problem with the installation, but I realized once the new points were in that I had no idea if they were set anywhere close to the correct dwell setting. I compared the adjustment screw positions on the new and old points, but it was not that easy to see how much I should pre-adjust the new points before starting the car.

That's the rub, or catch-22. You can't set the dwell angle without the engine running, and you can't measure the dwell angle without the engine running. So how do you know if the initial setting on a new set is close enough just to even get the car started?

I shrugged my shoulders and tried to start the car. It would crank but not start. I said what the hell and turned the adjustment screw inward one full revolution. At this point the car did start, and, with my dwell meter already hooked up, I saw right away that the dwell angle was around 45 degrees, way off of the 30 it should be. I quickly turned the screw and brought the angle down to 30, and the engine ran much better and as it should.

Is this the way to do this? Is there some way to pre-adjust a new set of points before installing? The is nothing that I could find in the service manual about this. It just says to install the points and then adjust the dwell. No mention about what to do if the engine won't start.

The approach I used just seems rather unprofessional (especially the part about having to say "what the hell").

 

Most of us use a feeler gauge for the initial gap. Then start the car and adjust dwell, then the timing.

 

I just go by the width of a dime or a little smaller to crank and then go to the dwell meter. Usually not off by much.

 

That is the only way to do it. Set the gap to get a spark, so engine starts, and then adjust the dwell. Also the numbers, if big gap to small, dwell numbers low, gap to big.

 

This type tool is the best for points.

 

If you don’t have a set of feeler guages use a matchbook cover to set the gap initially. Then dwell meter..It will get it started. My uncle taught me that 50 years ago..

 

I didn't think of the feeler gauge idea, and I should have. Oh well. The last time I changed the points on car was when Bill Clinton was president. Since then, I've had cars either with electronic ignition or I went ahead and converted the points setup to an aftermarket electronic ignition setup. I thought of doing this on the '73 just now, but the car is running well, and I didn't want to take everything apart to fix something that doesn't need fixing right now.

I understand. However, I'd be buying a tool I'd rarely use (like once every 25 years!), and a 1/8" hex head wrench worked just fine.

 

A film of distributor cam lube should be put on the distributor cam to reduce contact point rubbing block wear. Expect the dwell to change over the first few miles as the rubbing block wears, check and readjust the dwell as needed.

The changes in dwell/point gap affect ignition timing. Changes in ignition timing do not affect dwell, this is why dwell must be set before ignition timing.

 

Experience proves that either the hex key or the nice flexible shaft tool will zap the hell out of you if it hits the wrong thing inside the cap. Not that I know anything about that...

Dan, it's not unusual to buy modern production ignition parts and run into them being way off adjustment. That's why I like to keep new old stock parts on hand, preferably USA made before 1990.

 

Experience proves that either the hex key or the nice flexible shaft tool will zap the hell out of you if it hits the wrong thing inside the cap. Not that I know anything about that..

Yes, I have done that a few times myself. Practice makes perfect.

 

‘X 2, several times..wakes ya right up

 

So many times this question gets asked and one part of the answer gets skipped.
On the distributor shaft you have the cam with flat spots and high points. Turn the engine (bump the starter or use the fan pulley by hand) until the high point of the cam is directly under the block of the points, measure the gap with a feeler gauge and adjust using an allen wrench to the spec given in the manual. Then you can fine tune it using a dwell meter with the engine running.

 

If don't dial it in close with the feeler gauge you can also measure the dwell while the engine is cranking, even if it can't start. That way you can get an idea how far off you are on the gap to get the car started.

 

​​​​​​​
Yeah I’m a member of that club, too.

 

You guys make it much harder than it has to be.
Simply push the points in to place against the screws, and tighten them down.
If you have a quality set of points, they should be factory adjusted close enough for the engine to start.
If not, the dwell can still be read and adjusted while cranking.
This procedure works for all 56 thru 74 GM eight cylinder cars.

 

Big "if" there in these days, Charlie!😄

 

To clarify, you CAN read the dwell with the engine being cranked by the starter, even if it isn't running.

 

Mark me down for that one too.

Should there be any witnesses to said event .....

A good save is facing the engine with a fist bump + the a-ok gesture & a thumbs up in the order of your choice.

Yea yea I MEANT to do that !.

 

Thanks. Didn't know that.

 

Not that you want to pull the distributor but when I am going to fire a new engine and brake in the cam, I set the dwell this way. This video also shows how I set the initial timing to get it really close and fire right off.

 

I don't know if Joe remembers but I did the same thing as jaunty75. I couldn't figure out what was going on and texted Joe. He told me to just crank the engine dumbass..... (Joe was nice.... I added the "dumbass part")....lol

 

x1000
Why dick around with the feeler gauges and matchbook covers? Just read and adjust the dwell while you're cranking it.

 

It turns out I actually do have one of these. It's actually a toolkit with a handle like this with changeable ends, so you can you can put hex, torx, philips, whatever on the end. It would have worked perfectly, but I had only recently bought it at a local estate sale, threw it on the shelf, and forgot all about it. Doesn't do much good to buy tools if you don't use them!

 

I love these home remedy ideas. Strangely, they're not mentioned in the service manual. However, the CSM does have a table showing which coins from which countries work best for setting the initial dwell.

You know what else is kind of funny about this? Neither my wife nor I usually have much change in our pocket/purse. At the moment, neither of us has a dime.

Also, the only matches we have are the wooden, kitchen match kind.

I suppose I could run down to the nearest bar and ask them if I could have a matchbook. I would tell them that I need it to tune up my car!

 

Well, for one reason, it takes two people to do this, unless you have very long arms. I can always call my wife down to the garage, of course. I've certainly done that enough times. But sometimes I'm working on a car and she's out shopping or running errands, and I don't want to wait.

 

Post 15

Post 17

We are how many posts later and still offer Half fast solutions ?

And for those who can't figure how to check dwell using one person to set dwell while cranking.....Place the dwell meter facing the driver next to the windshield. Get in, crank the engine, observe the dwell reading.

There is an old saying...."You can't teach an old dog new tricks".
The truth is: You can't teach a DUMB dog any tricks.------RALPH 2024

 

Just wondering fellers. When you have got a failing ignition condenser, what symptoms to you "typically" see? I've never owned a car with points before so I'm trying to learn some more about these basic failures. I mean, I know that the condensers job is to help increase the life of the points but other than that would you get any immediate feedback when the condenser is starting to go?

 

Condenser failure can act similar to being 180 out, backfiring, weird cranking, random spark or weak spark, points may show a huge spark.

Usually it’s the condenser when troubleshooting shows everything else is good.😉

 

Generally, you will know immediately know when a condenser fails.
You just won't have any spark because the primary side of the Ignition is grounded.
Back in the olden days. We generally replaced condensers along with points with every tune-up.
Nobody really knew how long a condenser might last, but nobody wanted to take a chance on the failure of one after a tune-up.

 

In all my years of having a failed condenser, it failed open. I still change them with every points change.

 

We're all very sorry, RALPH 2024 (did I get the bold, italics, and all capitals right?), that we're all dumb and that the solutions offered so far don't meet your high standards. In my case, my dwell meter is part of a large Sears engine analyzer, and there's no good place to put this thing under the hood in view of the driver's seat. I might be able to set it on a table or something next to the car, but then the cables wouldn't reach. And, no, I'm not going to go buy a small, hand-held dwell meter because I have this one and it's not like I need to set the dwell once a week.

While it may be only a half-*** solution to you, I'll have to continue to resort to the wife-helping method for now.

 

I always thought those engine analyzer machines were so cool. I'd love to get my hands on one!

When it comes to having a hard time viewing things like you guys are talking about above, I've found myself in similar situations. My solution was to use my phone and a second tablet or an Ipad and use a facetime call (or whatever you want) so you can use the camera as your second set of eyes. I did this trick while troubleshooting my rear tailights.

 

It actually is pretty cool. I found it recently at an estate sale for something like $5, and the thing of it is, it was new-in-box. It had never been used. The cables were all still tied up with their factory wraps inside a plastic bag. The user manual is pristine. All of the original cardboard packaging was in the box as well.

Anyone know when these things were sold new? I have to believe it's 40 or 50 years old and that they stopped selling them once everything became electronic and fuel-injected.

 

There are plenty of good used ones on E-Bay;
Craftsman Engine Analyzer Sears for sale | eBay

 

X2
You often do see these units practically unused. I would imagine that the scenario would go like this.
Mom buys this for Dad as a Christmas present. Thinking that Dad can do his own tune-ups.
But Dad doesn't like to get his hands dirty. So the analyzer sits in a box in the garage. While Dad takes his car to a mechanic.
Yes, these units are probably at least 40 years old.

 

Or, DAD buys one of these for himself, optimistically thinking he can do the needed tuneups at home. But he realizes he doesn't like to get his hands dirty, and the cars go to a mechanic.

 

I bought mine as a teenager in the '80's from the local Sears. Still works great. It isn't as fancy as the one you're showing. It's smaller and doesn't have the colored buttons on its face.

 

because the car will start with a feeler guage or matchbook right away, then set dwell..simple..but hey there is always more than one way to do something..do what works for you

 

Love it. It (or one similar) was my 1st dwell, tach meter (purchased 1969). It was the companion to my Craftsman timing light. You stole it for $5.00 brand new in the box. Nice find.

 

Or maybe it looks unused because we learned at an early age to care of our stuff.