Joe, how did the install go when you swapped the TH350 w/the 2004R? CaptJim mentioned it not being a direct swap. Any special mods/fab?

By the way, yes I do have a white top....another member broke down my cowl tag & stated that originally it was blue.

 

IMO, 3.42 would still be more than sufficient for good street performance. The 2004R has a 2.74 first versus the TH350s 2.52 first, which means in first, 3.42 is like 3.71. At 70 MPH in 4th with 26" tires you'll be turning just over 2,000 RPM. The real question would be if you're going for max track performance, I think you'd want to be close to redline at the top of 3rd gear going into the traps. With 3.42s at 100 MPH (optimistic with a stockish 350) you'd be at around 4,400 RPM. With 3.73s you'd be around 4,800 and with 4.10s you'd be around 5,300. But since you're initial request was to "go a li'l faster", I still think 3.42s would be more than enough to accomplish this.

 

I APPRECIATE THE INFO....Is there a web site where a person can look up this information?

 

This post will probably scare you to NOT go with the trans swap but I'd do it all over again in a heart beat. 9 pages here. Enjoy:

http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic....er=asc&start=0

I'll have a final update for that post soon but I've got multiple projects going on the car and wanted to wait until I could provide the final post before I updated it again. The new 2600 - 2800 converter is on but I need one more governor swap.

I took the car on a 400 mile round trip cruise to pick my son up from college last week. Drove about 75 -80 the entire way in OD (4th). RPM stayed around 2700 - 2800 with my 28" rear tires (275/60/15). Car got 15.6 mpg. Nothing to go crazy about but my SUV gets about 18 or 19 mpg. I took it up to 95 once too when a "ricer" messed with me. Launching with the 3.90s is amazing. My car probably only has 250 hp but with the beefed up trans and 3.90s it's a completely different machine. I can spin the tires about 15 feet on command. About to upgrade the motor so can't wait to see how it runs with actual power.

If you want your cake and eat it too, get a 3.90 posi rear and a built up 2004R trans. You will be blown away. Does it take some tweaking to get it right? Absolutely but the end result is amazing. You may have to shorten the driveshaft a little - I did. I had to go with a 4 speed auto shift plate kit for my console shifter. I had to buy an adjustable TV cable that increases/decreases how hard the trans shifts. You will have to swap in and out pressure regulator springs and governors to dial it in but once you have it where you want, you leave it in D (Drive) and the car does everything you want it to. Granny driving shifts at low RPM and you feel just a little bump as it goes through the gears. Go WOT off the line and you can light up the tires at will. Once you have the correct governor in the trans it will shift at the exact RPM you want. Go WOT at speed and feel the trans downshift and break the tires loose at 50 mph.

It takes more work, projects, and money over a TH350 or TH400 but you can't beat having a 3.90 rear and still being able to cruise on the highway in the mid to upper 70s under 3k RPM.

-Joe

 

Here are some pics for you:
blue277044220convert.jpg

oldsgarage.jpg

1970azureblue.jpg

105_1182.jpg

Azure20442.jpg

Looks like lot of guys with blue interior and/or blue conv top go with the navy blue stripes on the hood and/or side of the car. Navy blue was NOT an option for a stripe only white or this unusual blue:

032.jpg

I personally like the navy blue top/stripe combo even though it was not an option from the factory. The top was just not the stripes.

 

I LIKE THE BLUE TOP!! I really only have the top up while its in storage. I also like the W-25 hood (gonna get it once its time to paint mine). I read your build "blog" last night....hell, THATS why I was up till 3a.m.
I did get a litttle turned off by the amount of issues you had but I just gotta have that OD..I like to eat my cake too...
I'm sure I'll be reaching out to you once I start. Hopefully I can learn from your experiences and limit my turn around time. Thanx so much for your feedback.

 

If the trans is on the way out, now is a good time to put in a well built 200-4R. You'll have the overdrive so when you get to the next step of changing gears you can go with 3.73's. The 200's first gear is 2.74 to1 as opposed to the th350's 2.52 to1. this will also help off the line acceleration & with the .67 od ratio it will be like having around 2.56 rear gears. If it's properly built it will survive just fine in any street car. Trust me, I've used the 200-4R's in a few cars & folks that had cars with the th350 beforehand always love it after we put the 4spd tranny in.

 

Asking b/c I dont know...Just thought about this. In swapping the 350 trans to the 4R trans does it make a difference that my car is a column shift vehicle?

 

You won't be able to get it into low or "1" manually.

 

Hey all those ideas take time. I have some JP 5 jet fuel for you. One gallon of that and you re ready for take-off!!!

 

please expound...

 

On a car with a 3-speed transmission and a 3-speed selector, the gear selected by the selector corresponds with the gear of the transmission (e.g. d=d, 2=2, 1=1). On a car with a 4-speed transmission and a 3-speed selector, the gear selected by the selector does not correspond with the gear of the transmission. Drive on the selector corresponds with OD on the trans, 2 on the selector corresponds with 3 on the trans, 1 on the selector corresponds with 2 on the trans, and there is no lower detent on the selector to reach 1 on the trans.

 

So if I'm understanding correctly....I WONT be able to use the 4R transmissions 4th gear OD on my vehicle??

 

Ha ha no, you won't be able to use LOW-1 because there's no way to select it with a 4-speed transmission and a 3-speed selector.

 

There is a converter kit for the console shifter that I got but it doesn't line up exactly right. Note the additional D with the circle around it:

sc2312-lg.jpg

I can now shift into L (1st) but I've tried manually shifting that way and I don't like it. The shifts are much more crisp if you just leave it in drive and go. Also if you have the proper governor that allows your shifts to occur at WOT at the exact RPM that produces the peak hp for your motor, you wouldn't have a need to manually shift through the gears. Plus you won't have to worry about hitting the RPMs correctly by doing it manually and more importantly won't have to worry about letting the car spin too high if you shift it manually a little late.

For the column shift with a 4 speed auto the shifter may not exactly line up with the D but all the gears will be there (except for L or 1st). You would just need to make sure your cable is set correctly for Park and make sure your reverse lights come on. Once you get used to where it hits for D or R it would be a non-issue going forward. The only thing you may need to worry about it if it's way off and you let someone drive your car or have it valet parked and they don't know the Drive is actually between N & D or whatever.

 

http://shiftworks.com/lens.htm

The do make kits for column shift cars but it doesn't look like they've made one for an Olds yet. You could trying calling them and see if they would build one for you. They may agree if it helps them add a new one to their list. Wouldn't hurt to try. I think if you had one of their kits and saw what it's like with and without you may think it's not worth the $200-$300 cost for the parts and labor to install it. That said it is pretty cool having all 4 gears on the shifter plate. It took a while for mine to be propery adjusted to allow the car to start in P, reverse lights to work, and allow it to go into 1st (L). Also none of the gears EXACTLY line up with the letter on the shift plate but it's pretty close.

-Joe

 

Again thanx for the info on the trans shifting. In regards to the 4R, Is it better to buy a core (check out link below) and build it up from there or just buy one from say Jakes Performance??
http://detroit.craigslist.org/wyn/pts/3492686679.html

 

That's not a TH2004R, it's a TH200.

 

Posted the wrong one. http://detroit.craigslist.org/okl/pts/3493958563.html


But I still wanted to get some feedback on a core rebuild or outright purchase...

 

Get the 4.10's w/ a posi. You will be happy. Run a 28" tall tire in the rear.

 

With an OD transmission, yes. With the TH350, no, you will hate it.

 

Yeah, 4.10s seem a bit unnecessary. A 200R4 has a 2.74 first, which makes 4.10s more like a 4.5x compared with a TH350 in first.

As for the core versus outright purchase, since no one else has chimed in, I would probably give some consideration to buying outright. Then you get the builder's select core, instead of making them work with your core. You also don't have to worry about shipping the core, if you were going to use an out-of-state shop. I don't know if it really matters one way or the other though. Maybe you find a core, maybe you don't. It would be different if you were already running the trans that you wanted to rebuild.

FWIW, I've got 3.42s with a TH350 and a 455 and I've been happy with it. Maybe I'll think about an overdrive, but I don't feel compelled to. You might feel differently if you like to cruise at 80 MPH.

 

Here's what I went with.

http://www.extremeautomatics.com/tra...ons/2004r.html

See the Stage 1 build. If you sticking with the 350 motor this should be all you'll ever need. Also if you go with this one and you have a 3.90 rear and you run a 28" tire, Lonnie (at Extreme automatics) can have your stock speedometer be exactly correct by using the green gov tooth gear. I go thru the speed traps with the radar #s and always look at the # I post and check my speedometer. It's not close it's exact. If you go with a 3.73 or a 4.11 or anything other than a 28" tire I'm sure there are other color tooth gears that could get you close but not sure if they would be as exact as with this set up. It was probably just luck but it sure is nice to have the speedometer exactly dialed in.

-Joe

 

Get one from a builder who does a lot of them. They are like Olds V8's, not every trans guy knows how to build them but when done, they right kick ***. The shift timing can be tricky to get right(no governor kits like TH350 or 700R4) and they need upgrades to live with more power.

 

I love that color combo. Mine is azure blue as well and will just be getting the navy stripes on the hood.


Back on topic, I've got a 70 Cutlass S with the 350 as well. Mine already had the 3.42 and posi when I bought it. It's a blast, but as the others said boy does it suck gas. It definitely put a hurting on my wallet back in high school/college. It also has a rather jerry-rigged dual exhaust and 442 bumper, which is nice as well.

As far as future mods -
The 4 barrel and intake manifold are pretty quick and easy.
A new cam is great, and is one of those "might as well" items if you do the timing chain.
A shift kit and converter will wake it up even more.

Then if you're really ambitious (read: crazy) you can get into the motor. I haven't looked into part availability much, but eventually I'd like to bump up the CR with smaller dish pistons, do a light head port, and valve job.

 

Ok Olds Fam, You folks have helped me a great deal in deciding which route to go with my vehicle:
NEW
Built 200-4R w/OD
3.42 rear (maybe posi)
Not doing cam yet...

OLD
TH350
2.56 rear


Now if you guys can help me understand how to select the right stall convertor that best fits my set up and what does the range signify (2400-2800?) ALSO Im trying to get a better understanding on the function of the stall convertor (trying to learn).
FYI, the car will probably never go to a track and I have 26" tires (275/30/20)
350 engine


Thanx

 

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Anybody??

 

Yes, you will like it. I run 1850 rpm at 60 mph with 25.6" tire with the convertor locked up. I shaved off .6 at the 1/8 mile track going from 2.56 to 3.42. It felt much faster too. The convertor is stall is when you floor it and it climb to that rpm off launch. A 2000 stall will be good on a stock engine.

 

I can't believe I missed this thread so far!

200-4R. Definitely buy a completed unit, w/ rear mount, bolts, TV cable, lockup kit, etc. Extreme Automatics would be a good place to deal with. Make sure you tell him to make sure the shifts aren't too harsh & that you want a WOT shift point somewhere around 4800 rpm. Have him get you a quality lock up converter & bolts, probably 2000-2200 stall. Provide him w/ rear end ratio & tire size so he can use speedo gears that will give a reasonably accurate reading. Consider what your ultimate power plans will be so trans will take it without having to upgrade later. If you are getting any where above 400 ft/lbs GO BILLET & be done with it. I have hurt my share of these & will never use any less than a full billet, heavily built unit.

With a column shifter you have to remove the detent plate from the steering column bowl & file down the low gear stop. You may also have to file the arm/stop @ the end of the shift tube where linkage connects under the hood. Only important if you want to be able to manually select low gear. If you can't do the install & setup, try to find a shop that plays w/ Buick Grand Nationals & have them handle it, I have never done one of these that didn't need tweaking & tuning. Use your TH350 dipstick, tube & shift arm (on trans), driveshaft will usually work, should add aux trans cooler plumbed in series w/ present one in radiator. Wire up a lockup circuit, search threads on Olds sites, there are some good threads on subject. Will need a TH400 primary E-Brake cable & the intermediate cable will need to be changed, or I just shorten them & use a universal cable stop on one end where it links up to left or right cable. That is if you stick w/ drum brakes & want a working Ebrake.

You will need a proper TV cable connection on throttle arm & that may necessitate a change of carb & corresponding change of manifold. There has to be a proper stud to connect TV cable on arm & it has to operate through a specific arc. I have modded Qjet arms w/ good results or get a later model Qjet that has the proper arm. I believe Edelbrock & Holleys need a kit for this. I don't know whether arm on 2 bbl can be modded like Qjet?

3.42. Good choice for ratio, check in w/ "507Olds" or "monzaz" + check classifieds for a unit. You will not only want a posi, you will NEED a posi!!! It's gonna act like you added 100 HP.

Once you start engine update, strongly consider aquiring a core or have one of the Olds specialists on these forums build you one & ship it or pick it up. You won't save any money building the one you have & it will only disable the car for an extended period. In one weekend you can pull present engine, clean up & paint engine bay & drop in your newly received engine. May not have it running on Sunday but all the heavy work will be done. Change the oil in original engine & run it just before removal, pull it, remove items you need to reuse, bag it & store it. Since the car is not a 442, SX or W, original engine does not really matter, except to you but at least you would still have it, probably right up until you have to scrap it to move into a retirement home!

Have fun with it, good looker & should be great driver.

 

Go with the 2004r, 3.73 gears and a good QUALITY converter of around 2800. Lonnie at Extreme Automatics knows what he is doing with the 2004r, spend some time on TurboBuick.com for some more info.

The 2004R is pretty much a bolt in if the car has a TH350 now. You need to slide the trans crossmember back to where it would sit if the car was equipped with a TH400 (the holes will already be in the frame) and use the original drive shaft. Shiftworks makes a neat conversion kit if the car has a floor shift and console. If its a column shift it will need some work if you want to be able to MANUALLY shift through the gears.

If the engine is mild, you shouldn't need any expensive upgrades to the trans. Use a wide band for second gear, a Grand National servo or aftermarket equivalent, a hardened stator support, and a good shift kit. CK Performance sells a complete kit that includes the servo, valve body and governor.

The 3.73 gears and 2800 converter was a stock setup on the late model RWD 442. With a 28 inch tall tire you should cruise around 2200-2400 rpm at interstate speeds.