70 cutlass s

71 Cutlass if you want a guarantee. The guy that does my machine work is one top engine builders in the US. On engines he builds he does guarantee and dyno the engine.

You tell him what engine you have, how much much power you want, he tells how much it will cost. Then you send him your engine. If you want a guarantee then this might be your best bet.

He builds for people all over the US. He built a car that one won on pinks on speed and has built several engines for some of the winners on that show.

If you want his number just let me know.

captjim

71, it is unfortunate that you got bad advice from the tech you spoke to. I remember reading several places that the heads had bowl work, some port matching and IIRC larger intakes and that the compression was 9.8 to 1.

The thing is, if you used a "stock" 68-70 hi-comp 350, you would be at that Cr as those pistons had a 6 cc dish, so it really can get muddled. But in any event, without headers and some head work, it won't happen, IMHO.

My442, everybody's definition of "streetable" is different. Mine is that it starts when you turn the key, idles in drive and has decent brakes.
Also, on your 455 build, IMHO you add decent headers and a Torker/Performer and you might add another 50 HP, it would certainly add some rpm.

Also, in this discussion we never mentioned "pump gas" I will say building a 400 HP 355 on pump gas would be challenging, but build one at high 10.xx to 1 and put in a nice cam, no problem.

I guess I need to go get my clunker dyno'd. It is in the car, so it will be RWHP. Too bad it is 90+ and humid outside.

71 Cutlass

I actually did mention the pump gas issue earlier on (see 1st page of this thread). I mentioned it because it's one of the main reasons I feel the way I do about the "streetability" issue. Here's what I wrote; "Already had this discussion and 350 HP is not reachable without making your car virtually unstreetable. Use a 455 and it's reasonable, so forget those high hopes on today's gas."

If it wasn't for today's gas, a lot of these build ups we're debating WOULD be streetable. The low octane of today's gas has me constantly battling the dreaded detonation issue each day. If race gas was readily available and inexpensive, I'd just buy that...no such luck

88 coupe

Without a precise definition of "unstreetable" your arguments are worthless.

Norm

captjim

You stated it (and I agree with most of your points in that regard) but the OP did not. Here is the way I looked at it. A car like that is going to see only a couple of thousand miles a year in most cases. Often times a lot less. So, for an extra few hundred bucks a year on 110 octane, you can have the best of both words, compression and manners. IMO, too many guys sacrifice just to run on 91 when if they did the math they are giving up a lot. I have a station that sells 110 a mile away, I understand that is not an option for everybody.

71 Cutlass

Actually, you, me and the OP all agree on this issue. He doesn't want anything "Radical" that will require high octane race gas, despite his short annual driving distances. Finally a consensus! Well except for the confused 88 coupe, who for some unknown reason in this thread, quoted 380 racer from another thread, where 88 coupe was being slammed by 380 racer all day long.

nuttkaze

Your right "71Cutlass"..all I'm really looking for is the get a little more out of my oldmobile power wise without sacrificing driviablity. I will be doing more driving, than getting out it and smashing the gas. All I want is to know when i decide to get on the gas, I know i have a something back there. As long as I'm in the 12, 13, 14mpg on up I'm good!!! Basically the best of both worlds, drivability and performance!!!!! give me you all best combos..

captjim

post #18 in this thread. Or here,
http://72.22.90.30/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=68604

$1950 shipped to your house. 300 hp/350 ft/lbs low 14s and 16-18 mpg with a 2.23 rear. Drop it in and ride.

You can't have everything, so decide what is more important and what to sacrifice. Want high 12s on pump gas with a 3.23 rear? Go 455. Want a snappy, fun to drive 14.2 car that gets decent mileage? Buy my engine, or build one similar. A 403 is kinda in-between. Want to get 18 mpg and go high 11s on race day? Build a 350 strong and spray it.

bccan

I've been lurking here following thread & finally have a few minutes to post, I'm a pretty slow typer.

I have to agree that in my experience (5 SBO builds since 1980) once you get over 350 HP on a 350 you are starting to push the limits of what I would consider streetable unless you have a manual trans & some gear, then I think you could push the 400 mark IMO.

I just removed my 10 year old 350 so I could send parts that will swap into new build @ BTR. My 350(355) was 10.5:1 CR (.018 deck flat tops, ave 68 cc chambers, .028 gasket) big valves, unported, RPM, QJet, 1 3/4 headers, 3.90, 200-4R, 2600 converter. Ultradyne Hyd Rllr .525 218/226 @ .050 w/ 1.6 shaft rockers. Studs, straps, smoothed 403 rods w/ ARP's, relatively loose clearances, the usual above average SBO street build.

Engine ran very well for last appx 8 years once I changed to present head gskts (.028 vs original .040) & put in bigger cam (above vs .512 202/212HR) to tame octane thirst. Engine is sterile inside, no gunk, no glitter, very slight bore scuff from Spd Pro (.004-.005 iirc)piston skirts. Curiously intake valve stems are a little "coked" & I don't know why - ports & intake are clean, carb is alittle fat, just don't know. Windage tray & bottom end look so nice & settled I don't think I have the heart to pull some caps & inspect bearings, though I know I should.

With this setup, car needs no less than 93 octane(I mix in 2.5 gals 110 Sunoco for track rentals) on the street. With 4 row radiator(aftermarket w/ moderate fin density) engine runs cool, too cool if temp is below 65 or so - won't even hit 160 stat @ low load. If temps are cooler, it'll run around 140 so I have 2 pieces of cardboard to cover about 1/3 of the core so it will hit the stat temp. If I put a 180 stat in it things are OK in cold weather but if we get a warm day, say 75 or more & temp climbs in traffic, water will go 190-195 & it will be susceptible to preignition under load. If I had known 10 years ago what I know now these needs could have been mitigated but my point is I have an appx 350 HP 350 & it is a bit finicky. Idle quality w/ automatic is slightly rough but not bad, pulls 14-15" of vac but took carb mods to get it decent(up from 12"). With a stick you could put more cam in it & it would be sweet.
Keep in mind this is w/ 3.90. Driveability is EXCELLENT, mileage IIRC is appx 15-16 average, more importantly I can drive 100 miles to the track, take 12-15 runs & drive home on a tank of gas. Gotta love the OD trans, but I never fully trust it either after bending a front drum(?) a few years ago. You would not get near that w/ any highway driving w/ 3.90 in a 1:1 high. Highway RPM is 2300-2400 @ 70 miles per hour locked up (26.5" tire).

Chassis dyno a few years ago was 295 @ wheels, brutally hot day, water injector was adding 15HP just by killing detonation. So that is gonna put engine close to 350 @ the crank. Car has run a traction challenged 13.1 @ 104, highest miles per hour I remember was 106. I am a marginal (at best), inconsistent track driver (reaction times all over the place, 2.1-2.2 60 most of the time), a slightly above average tuner so let's say w/ a little better tune & a good driver it might have a 12.9 @ 106 in it. Pretty respectable for a 4000 pound car I could hop into & drive cross country, gets good mileage & can defend it's honor. I know there are a few ponies and a tenth or two left on the table but it is tuned to run well on the street w/ exception of the idle being a little rich.

BUT - it has it's quirks & needs which means for one thing a slightly better build plan could have been implemented if only I stopped to think about fuel quality when I built it. what would I give up by dropping compression or adding more cam to lower octane requirement? The other way to look @ it is that streetability is starting to run out. Probably a little of both. At least for my tolerances. That is why I'll have a 434 DX in their mid June - to undo my comprimises & effortlessly plant me well into the 12's w/ drag radials, purring like a kitten, lotsa vacuum, no temp or octane issues, with even better streetability than it has now. Biggest problem should be making sure the rear end doesn't swap places w/ the nose if I hit passing gear.

PS - FYI I am able to run OAI w/ Performer RPM manifold, had to massage air cleaner base a little to add some "low rise" contour to it, foam gasket trimmed to half normal height. I mention because you seem interested in using OAI. Can't beat the factory setup for cache but under the bumper or high beam snorkles are probably more effective.

Eric Baker

DOES ANYONE HAVE SPECS ON 1967 330 ROD DIMENSIONS?

L69

same rod as all small blocks

Toyaholic

Here's a repost from a motortrend forum. Not sure how accurate this is.... but here's what I found.



"Many muscle car fans know that the power rating of many classic muscle car engines were deliberately underrated. It was usually done for two reasons... 1) to lower insurance costs and 2) so the car could be in a more favorable class in NHRA drag racing.
Here is a chart from a muscle car magazine from the 1980s. Written by Roger Huntington, who wrote articles and road tests for many car mags, including Motor Trend.

Here is the chart from the magazine:

Make/---------------Adv.------Adv.------Actual
Engine size---------HP--------Torque----HP

Buick 455 Stage 1---360@5000--510@2800--420@5400
Camaro Z-28 302-----290@5800--290@4200--310@6200
Chevelle 396 L-78---375@5600--415@3600--400@5600
Corvette 427 L-88---430@5200--450@4400--480@6400
Mopar 340-----------275@5000--340@3200--320@5600
Mopar 440-4 bbl-----375@4600--480@3200--410@5400
Mopar 440-6 bbl-----390@4700--490@3200--430@5600
Mopar 426-Hemi------425@5000--490@4000--470@6000
Mustang Boss 302----290@5800--290@4300--310@6200
Ford 351 Cleveland--300@5400--380@3400--340@5600
Mustang Boss 351----330@5400--370@4000--360@6000
Mustang 428---------335@5200--440@3400--410@5600
Mustang Boss 429----375@5200--450@3400--420@5600
Olds 455 W-30-------370@5300--500@3600--440@5600
Olds 350 W-31-------325@5400--360@3600--350@5800
Pontiac Ram Air 400-366@5100--445@3600--410@5600

These figures of actual hp do make sense. I mean, no muscle car fan believes that the Ford 428 was making the same hp as the 390!

However, some engine's ratings were not underrated. Here are some which was correctly-rated:

Make/engine-----------Adv./Actual hp--------------------

Buick GS 400----------340@5000
Camaro Z-28 350-------360@6000
Corvette 427 Tripower-435@5800
Chevelle SS 454 LS-6--450@5600
Ford 427 Dual Quad----425@6000
Fairlane 390 GT-------335@4800
Olds 4-4-2 400--------350@4800
Plymouth/Dodge 383----335@5000
Pontiac GTO 400-------350@5000 "


Read more: http://forums.motortrend.com/70/5020...#ixzz1vMQFrf83

Rickman48

Toyaholic - some of that you've gotta take with a grain of salt - if you notice, most of the Chevy stuff was underated at lower RPM than was the actual redline from the factory on those models - in both original and corrected HP numbers, and all the corrected numbers are at a higher RPM!
Had they gone to the actual redline on those solid lifter motors, they'd have made 25 - 75 more!
I was at Nickey at the time, and the engine builder used to send out a lot of the stock stuff to a dyno, so we could sell the 'takeouts' - L-78 was the biggest surprise @ 475.
L-88 was close @ 500, and the LS6 @ 550.
Just take 'em to 7200-7500 RPM! Only requirement was Sunoco 260.
Oh - the little Z-28 302 went to 400!