delta254

Ok so I am going to attemp to intstall my headers on my cutlass vert 350 floor shifted. I just put the manifold gaskets on and the bolts came out fine none of the bolts broke off thank god that being said I will attempt to install the headers. I pretty much have it down to removing starter, oil filter and bracket, and maybe adjusting the transmision lines and other tweeks here and there. My mayn question is do I remove the bolts that atach the manifold to the exhaust pipe or should i just cut it off and save myself some trouble because its going to have to be cut anyways to install the collector pipes to the exhaust pipese it does have duel exhaust from manifolds. Please help thanks.

cutlassjoe

That sounds about right. I went with Flowtech's on mine and they were not too bad. There is always some tweeking to do but they do work pretty good.

oldcutlass

Let us know how it turns out.

delta254

What gaskets works best copper or can I use factory ones?

Qwik71442

I would not use the factory style gaskets they will leak. I've had good luck with the Mr gasket ultraseal's or use the ones the headers come with.

oddball

Percy's are really nice and apparently reusable.
For a quick install the Fel Pros will work but may blow out if the flange is too weak.

You also need to remove the dipstick and reinstall after the headers are in place. That's the fun part.

Don't forget to leave out the top middle bolt. It'll only encourage leaks along the bottom.

I would just cut the pipe. Unbolting the pipe from the manifolds is always dicey unless properly maintained. Which I never did.

delta254

Got it ....thanks guys last question Do I have to wrap my starter with heat wrap? Some say you do not to sure on this...thanks again

Qwik71442

I personally never used the wrap before never really needed to

Eightupman

You want to use something like Hedman gasket set #HED-27800 available from Summit for $15.99 ($21.94 to the door). I like the way they sealed against those headers. If you havn't already, make 100% SURE you don't have a set of Chevy headers in that box... I had to return a set of Flowtechs because someone labled a Chevy box with an Olds part number... they are REALLY close.

I recommend you leave drivers side header loose (as in kinda hanging on the dipstick tube) and the wires on the starter then fish it into its spot. Its going to take some meticulous choreography to get that all together nice. Especially around the dipstick tube. IF you can possibly remove the tube without breaking it do so. A warning though.. make 100% SURE the header isn't hitting the starter. It probably will if you wrap it. IF it does, the header will not bolt tight to the head and leak badly. And I know 100% for sure the Flowtech headers will NOT fit with a Summit mini starter.

John

Eightupman

Say what??????

delta254

I read in a thread that the headers can overheat the starter and solenoid..Has anybody ever heard of this?

captjim

John, I have not found it to be true but have seen guys say that the top center bolt will pull the bottom of the header away from the head.

380 Racer

Yes John, leave the center one out, the other 4 will hold and seal it. You won't pull the bottom of the header away from the head sealing surface so it seals.

Eightupman

Me either. Nor did the Flowtechs leak on the 403 I just did, center bolt installed. Perhaps different curves for different headers... I know the Hedman gaskets I used were nice and thick.

Looks like another case of, try it either way and see what works.

John

Eightupman

Yes, its called heat soaking and it is a common ailment of an older well worn starter.

John

delta254

A new starter or heat wrap should do the trick?

Eightupman

Depends on the clearance you end up with between the starter and the header. I'd personally not use anythign for the time being and see what happens. No sense spending the money on something that may not be necessary.

John

delta254

Good call...Ill try it without anything there. I was under there looking around and I dont see any kind of heat shield form factory did these cars have any kind of stock heat shields for starter?

380 Racer

Well John, there is a good example why I don't go to your site anymore. If you don't want to accept hard earned advice......I won't give you any.

Eightupman

No, you don't go to the site anymore because you got butthurt. Look Nick, BOTH bits of advice came from sound skilled individuals, AND personal experience (this time) is completely opposite what you said! Get mad if you like but damn, no matter which option this guy chooses, its NOT a matter of life and death, or going to cause immediate motor failure. Either he puts the bolt in and it leaks, leaves the bolt out and it leaks, puts the bolt in and doesn't leak, or leaves the bolt out and doesn't leak! All he has to do is decide what underware to put on that day.

And for the record, I DO accept hard earned advice... my current 455 build has ARP rod bolts installed, and the bottom end got balanced, EVEN AFTER I had been screaming "it wasn't necessary". I just don't make it public who's advice I'm taking and when I take it.

Sorry to the OP for the brief thread crapping. All advice given in any post is going to be chastized by someone somewhere.

John

380 Racer

Like I PMd you, I haven't run center bolts for years. I also use quality headers.

coppercutlass

fwiw i just run the center one snug so i tighten it by hand and just give it 1/2 turn to 3/4 turn with a wrench. I think this approach is in between not running one and running it. I run a really old set of blackjack headers from like the 70's i have run them for year with no issues. I really like the felpro blue gaskets. I have gotten almost 3 re uses out of them. They leaked towards the end of the last 3rd time. Right now i tried out the flatout header gaskets and i really like them so far and they are not as expensive as the felpro's if i remember right. I also never had issues with heat soak even with the 10 yr. old starter that came with the car when i bought it.

455man

Just my experience but I was putting a new starter on every summer. I had a heat shield on the starter then put header tape on the header near the starter. Might have been the cheap starters I used. I had a lifetime warrant so it just cost me the time to change it. Never did solve the problem. I'll use a hi torque starter this time around on the 455.

delta254

Thanks for all the info i will try it with all bolts tight and the felpro gaskets and see how long this last....if leaks quick ill go with hedman gaskets and snug top bolt and see how that turns......As far as the starter goes I will leave it alone unless I I have issues and worry about it then as it seems like those were isolated incedents.....I will update once I install them....thanks for all the help and advice guys you all are awsome.....

delta254

FINALLY got the headers on it was a royal payne in the a** sound like a nascar right now goin to mufleer shop saterday and get the collectors weld on...no leaks so far

yankees

delta254 gives us the details for those who haven't done this yet. Any Gotchas?

delta254

Yes here's what I had to do remove starter oil filter and bracket of corse after the old manifolds are off...then check to see if your motor mounts will hit if so bend or remove....on pass side put header and tweek tranny lines to clear I ran mine through headers I removed them from tranny and put back oil filter and brackets....on driver side my didn't touch starter or brake line or linkage cable...I simply put it on and put starter back....oh remove dip stick and yes mine did brake like all others after getting it out from block bolt up header and put in dip stick....I went with mr gasket ultra seals gaskets

blunce

Where did your oil dipstick break and how did you reinstall it if it was broken? I'm asking because I'm getting ready to do the same on my '69 350 with Hookers.

And am I reading that right, that you're running the tranny cooler lines through the middle of the header tubes instead of behind them? (another area I've been eyeballin' on how I'm going to adjust mine). Though, going through the headers seems a bit unorthodox.

delta254

The dipstick broke snaped at the block it was easy to get out though I bought a new dip stick from advance but it dont seem to stay in right I will use it for now but will buy a better quality one day. Tranny lines seemed easir to go thru than around...