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Hello everyone! I just got my car back from the mechanic. It’s running again which is good. However, now that it’s running, i have noticed that the fan pulley was a bit wobbly (and the generator light was on). Upon closer inspection I noticed that the harmonic balancer seems to be source of the wobble. No oil is leaking. When i reinstalled the original balancer I followed the instructions that were given to me in a post a few years ago. I thought I torqued it down to the required torque (was it 180- 200 ft /lbs?). Is this cause for concern? Thank you!
Last edited by Oldssupreme; July 23rd, 2021 at 02:10 PM.
It may be the rubber ring is failing. That would allow the outer metal ring to move. If that's the case I think you should have it rebuilt or replaced.
Well, I'm not an expert but wouldn't want to drive it much without replacing it. The weight of that ring moving might put stress in places you don't want it. You could probably pick up a used one pretty cheap to get you by until you decide what to do.
Can any damage be done if I run it before getting it replaced or rebuilt? Should I try retightening the bolt on the crank pulley first?
The crank pulley bolts onto the center of the balancer. Then there's the rubber seal or what I called a ring, and the weighted ring on the outside. It looks to me like that weighted ring is loose and has moved enough to wobble.
Thank you for your replies. I should have used a new one when I replaced the timing set. Ugh. Is there a good thread to replace this with the engine in the car? Can I leave the fan pulley on or do I have to take out the radiator and fan pulley? And will I need to reset timing after replacing?
The factory service manual should tell you how to replace it. If you decide to have it rebuilt Damper Dudes is a good place. I know there are a couple others that folks on here recommend also.
If you can get the puller in there without removing the radiator you should be fine. You'll need to remove the crankshaft pulley, then the big bolt that holds the balancer to the crankshaft, then remove the balancer. The balancer has a keyway so there's only one way to put it on, so you shouldn't have to do anything with the timing. If there's enough room it should be a pretty simple fix.
Thank you everyone for your help. So before I replace I think I should make sure that the torque is at 160lbs as the manual states. If it is, most likely after 168000 miles Am I correct to assume that the balancer is no longer balancing? If i need a new one is there a particular model and brand that anyone might recommend? Is it silly to lol for a NOS piece due to the rubber drying out and cracking? Thank you!
And could there be any relationship between the balancer being off and the generator light being on? Are used to pull off from a 34,000 mile car that tested fine at one of the AutoZone self alternator tests. Battery is still showing 12.93 V after running a few days in the garage with the generator light on.
I don't think the balancer is related to your electrical bugs. With the wobble its likely the ring has also slipped and rotated. Not sure how much that may or may not affect the balance of your engine. But the line for your timing mark may be in the wrong position now. 'm sure the wobble isn't helping things and may be causing some vibrations that affect the engine. Long term, it would be good to have it rebuilt. Someone like Damper Doc will take it apart and put a new rubber ring/seal in it. Then you should be good for many many miles. But to get it back on the road you could likely purchase a used one that has a good looking ring, not all cracked and coming apart. Staying with OEM will keep life simple. There are aftermarket ones out there but I don't have experience with them.
Well. this thread has got me wondering if the slight vibration I feel in my 69 Cutlass (455 w/TH400, 3.23 posi) is related to the harmonic balancer? I have had the drive shaft balanced, motor mounts replaced, wheels hub-centric balanced, new tires, rotated the flex plate as recommended in the CSM and still a on/off vibration at 65mph/3500rpm (aprox). I have improved the situation with what has been done but am hoping for elimination of the issue. Would a vibration be consistent if it was the HB. I will take a close look for cracks and other wear indicators. Is there any definative way to tell if there is an issue with it?
Hi. Does anyone have recommendations for someone who does quality rebuilds for harmonic balancers? I’ve been trying to call and emailed damper doctors for the past week and no response and the phone just rings. If I can’t get rebuilt I might go with Deans suggestion of pb1147n which summit racing has as a stock replacement. Thank you!
Hi. Does anyone have recommendations for someone who does quality rebuilds for harmonic balancers? I’ve been trying to call and emailed damper doctors for the past week and no response and the phone just rings. If I can’t get rebuilt I might go with Deans suggestion of pb1147n which summit racing has as a stock replacement. Thank you!
As I mentioned in post #7 and Joe just referenced above try Damper Dudes. They did a great job for me and were good guys to work with. Here is the link.
I just noticed this thread. First of all if the fan pulley is "wobbling" it has nothing to do with the harmonic damper. The fan pulley is mounted to the water pump.
That being said I have watched the video in full screen three times and just do not se anything that I would be concerned with. I don't think I have ever seen a factory damper that runs perfectly true, even brand new ones. Unless the rubber is obviously cracked I don't see a reason to replace it. Now I am saying this without being right in front of it so I could be wrong. It looks to me like the belts and pulleys are running pretty darn true for a stock setup.
Thank you all for your messages and for all your help. Bill, thank you for your message as well. May I trouble you to take a video of your harmonic balancer from the same position as mine so I can compare them? I wish I would have paid more attention to it when it was running, for comparison, before I reinstalled the engine, but that was 10 years ago lol.
Thank you all for your messages and for all your help. Bill, thank you for your message as well. May I trouble you to take a video of your harmonic balancer from the same position as mine so I can compare them? I wish I would have paid more attention to it when it was running, for comparison, before I reinstalled the engine, but that was 10 years ago lol.
I honestly dont think I can see it in my Wifes car. With the fan shroud and everything else in the way it is buried pretty good. I remember having a hard time even seeing the timing mark. I will take a look this weekend and if it is visible I will do it. But to be honest with you I have been working on engines for the last 50 years or so and simply have not seen a stock damper that runs perfectly true. I look at several every week when I am balancing crankshafts and they are never perfect. The aftermarket performance ones are usually right on but not stock ones. Keep in mind that it is a cast ring assembled to the inner hub with a layer of rubber in between. They are put together in a fixture but its just not that perfect.
Thank you all for your messages and for all your help. Bill, thank you for your message as well. May I trouble you to take a video of your harmonic balancer from the same position as mine so I can compare them?
The 307 balancer is just a hub, not a damper with an external rubber-mounted ring, so photo comparisons won't be helpful.
This is the full balancer/damper used on older motors.
Joe,
I honestly dont remember but I am pretty sure you are correct (of course) But I still stick to my point that the factory ones are very rarely perfect.
Thank you Bill and Joe. Let me ask you this- if there is always some wobble to these harmonic balancers, what metric should I use to determine if I should replace it or not? I don’t want to spend money and time fixing this if there is nothing wrong but at the same time I don’t want to overlook this if it is of importance.
I should have preceded my last message with the following information. The car has 168,000 miles on it. This is the original harmonic balancer. I had it out once when I replace the timing set. It looked good, clean rubber, so I reinstalled it.
...after 168000 miles Am I correct to assume that the balancer is no longer balancing
The balance function is built into the hub, which never moves because it is keyed to the crankshaft. Therefore balance will not vary.
The outer ring may slip, which will make timing marks wrong. A slipping outer ring may also fail to absorb torsional vibration of the crankshaft.
As long as the outer ring is in place (not slipping forward or back), it's torsional capacity is likely OK as well.
Originally Posted by Oldssupreme
...what metric should I use to determine if I should replace it or not?
Use a mechanic's mirror and inspect the condition of the rubber and the position of the outer ring versus hub.
If the rubber is cracked, or out of position, and/or if the outer ring is mis-positioned (fore or aft) more than about 1/16" with regard the hub, you would replace or rebuild it.
July 23rd, 2021, 02:04 PM
