oldzy

The Engle 'EP-16/18' cam is looking more and more appealing for my needs. I do not want to sacrifice low end (the last time around I put a HMV-272-2 Crane Cam in my stock '72 350, stock 2.73 gears and TH350, and it ran like total crap... no bottom end whatsoever).

I am just wondering if I should try to bump the CR up a bit ~ 9.0:1? Would it make a big difference over the stock CR (which I have heard can possibly be less than 8.0:1) ?

At present, I have a stock 1972 350 with '7A' heads, as well as a 3.42 posi. I will also more than likely rebuild my blown TH350 as opposed to a M20/22, etc. I am not putting headers on this time around (I hate the 'fitment' issues). Will also be using a stock intake manifold this time around also (ditto on the fitment issue... one of my A/C brackets would not mount properly).

I going to be rebuilding my engine/trans very soon, and want to get all the info needed. For one the trans shop wants to know what cam I am getting so he can include a good torque converter (assuming I have my TH350 rebuilt), plus the machine shop needs to have the parts ready (ie. springs, cam bearings) as well before I drop the heads/block off.

Also, with a cam like the 16/18, would putting bigger intake valves for example in my stock heads make a big diff? I am sure the machine shop will ask me all these things and what I want exactly, so don't want to look too much like an idiot.

thx.

cutlassefi

I'd do the bigger intakes anyway. With that gear I'd do the same cam I did for Shaun (defiant1) on here, 217/224, on a 108. That'll give you good low end and a little lope. With stock manifolds you can use the greater off the seat time this will give over the 16-18. And the tighter lobe sep will give you more power sooner in the rpm range.
jmo.

oldzy

thx. Will check with the machine shop on the valve upgrade.

What about the Comp Cam 42-413-9 Xtreme Energy Hydraulic Roller (XR262HR) as a comparison? I recall seeing a v8tv vid with Bill Travato, and he recommended the hyd roller Comp cams b/c they need no break in.

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/c...csid=1182&sb=2

cutlassefi

Whatever you do on a cam you'll need to nail down your compression ratio first. There's a noticeable difference in 8.0:1 vs 9.0:1.
Sure if you want to go roller I highly recommend it. A Hyd roller with lifters is $675.00. any number of ways to go, but again gotta decide on a comp ratio, then we can go from there. Lifts would be in the .512-.530 range. You'll benefit from different springs for a roller vs a flat tappet, but spring prices between the 2 are about the same. I can get you the right spring as well if you want.
Unless you're going to go fairly large, stock converter should be fine.

oldzy

Thx. I don't know much too anything bout Erson... just heard of them very recently. I am really starting to like the sounds of the roller cams (although a bit pricey). Would this XR262HR be too much for my setup? .....

• '72 stock 350
• stock intake and exhaust manifold (99% sure), stock Q-Jet tweaked as needed
• stock heads, other than 3 angle valve job (doubt I will get bigger valves, just new ones perhaps - maybe S/S)
• ~ 9.0:1 compression is the goal most likely (no clue what pistons/gaskets, etc. to get yet - I do not want to have the block/heads machined though unless absolute necessary)
• will likely add roller rockers (assuming they are needed anyway)
• exhaust divider and crossover left as-is
• 3.42 posi

ETA:

• dual exhaust
• stock valve covers
• will be running A/C, and also have P/S and P/B
• not sure if will rebuild my blown TH350 or go with a Muncie M20
• ~9.5:1 compression
• will be running Sunoco 94 octane all the time if possible (there are still a few Petro Canada's as well as some others around that sell it)
• weeknight/end driver in the summer months, and will be taking to the drag strip a few times a year

Given the few examples below... what would be the best 'overall' cam for my setup?


-Comp Cams-






-Engle-




-Lunati-

oldzy

Also, by just changing to a mild cam like one of the above + pistons to increase CR... do I need to actually have roller rockers?

Had a quick look at Harlands, and the price is anywhere from $300 to $670 or so... plus I am not even sure which ones are which, and it also states machining work needs to be done on certain rockers.

cutlassefi

I could grind you a roller that would be stock rocker friendly. I'm looking at 214/222 at .050 on a 110. Lift would be .512 on both.
That Comp roller is pretty quick, harder on the valvetrain.

oldzy

ok, I have modded post #5 and added/changed a few things to the bullet list... dual exh., stock valve covers, A/C, P/S, P/B, ~9.5:1 compression, running Sunoco 94 octane, etc. I will also get roller rockers (as long as they fit fine under stock valve covers), just not sure which ones yet, or the best way to achieve 9:5.1 CR (will talk to the machine shop more about that, and online of course).

So with all that in mind, what custom Erson roller cam specs do you recommend? What is the RPM range? Are their roller lifters/springs, etc. decent... or should I go Comp Cams or something else? Also, I am confused on the 'lift' thing. .512 is much higher than most of the ones I posted above. Does lift make a big diff perf. wise? More the better? More or less lift for stock iron Olds heads?

BTW, I did a quick search and ended up @ http://www.pbm-erson.com/, but when I did a quick click on Camshafts... all they had listed was Chev and Ford stuff? Do you have a website also by chance being a dealer? thx

Below is what I had done to the engine/block way back in 1994. I can't make out most of it... looks like my doctor's writing. I took it all apart and put it all back together myself. At present, it is on the engine stand together. I am hoping the dist. gear that fell off years ago (and still inside) did not damage anything else. When I took the intake off recently, it was still spotless after 17 years (they painted it red inside - not sure why - so the oil runs off easier perhaps?)

cutlassefi

Looks like they just did a rering.
There are other factors besides compression that will dictate what cam is right. Gear, intake etc as well as how mild or wild you want to go are also things to consider.
Lift normally benefits you everywhere in the rpm range, depending on the heads of course. Duration will dictate where the power starts and where it ends.
Erson does a bunch of flat tappet and roller stuff for Olds, but mostly thru me. Admittedly their website isn't the most complete but their cams are top notch.
And 9.5:1 with the right setup should run fine on 91 or better.

oldzy

Thx. If you could address the other questions when you have time, that would be great.

I am assuming Erson is 100% made in the USA? I don't want any overseas Asian stuff. I can live with some Euro countries though. ie. Germany, England, Austria, Italy

13's in the 1/4 would be nice. I prefer low-mid power though.

cutlassefi

Yes all american made. And their springs and lifters the same. No I do not have a website yet.
I'll be shooting for low to midrange power no matter what you end up with for compression etcm that's your goal right?

Yes paint is to help oil drainback, not sure how much good it does on a street application.

oldzy

Yes, I prefer more focus on low to mid. Shooting for 9:5.1 CR. Still want to drag it though occasionally. It would be nice to beat a stang/civic or two of course. What would the idle be like... smooth or noticeable?

It does not really matter what roller rockers and pushrods are used it does it? For example, can I get Harland, Comp (or Erson), etc. roller rockers, as long as they fit under stock valve covers?

What would I be looking at $$$ wise for the cam, lifters, and springs, etc.? I am assuming I need the springs to match correct?

Also... I do not need to make machining mods for the lifters do I? I thought I read that somewhere that sometimes you do, as well with some roller rockers.

tx

oldzy

and another newbie question (hope you donut mind b/c I will have some more no doubt)... what if later on I decided to actually weld that center exhaust divider and add headers (quoting someone from before... they are a 'necessary evil')... would the cam I choose in this case be ok to use at that point? No doubt the heads themselves (other than perhaps new S/S valves and 3-angle) will be stock.

Should I decide for certain NOW whether or not to run headers before ordering a cam? Are they going to make much diff on basically stock heads?

Thanks

cutlassefi

I'll answer your last question first. If you're going to use headers, I'd probably use less exhaust duration, more duration with manifolds.

Idle can be smooth or noticeable, what do you want? Noticeable normally equates to more hp/tq than a smooth one. Also if you stay with manifolds it's harder to hear any cam.
Lifters will drop right in, but you need shorter pushrods than with a flat tappet. Any good rocker will work.

About $775.00-$800.00, for roller cam, lifters, and the right springs.

oldzy

I don't mind a bit 'noticeable'. Just not too lopey. If I can find a good youtube vid, I will post a link.

I am just wondering if headers are worth it (HP wise) or not on stock 7A heads? Because if I do add them, I defeat my original plan... to look 'stock' with the motor mount heat shields, exhaust manifold shield, heat riser, listening to nitpickers at the car show (yeah yeah I know) etc.

Then there is a hassle of headers in general on an Olds... near or touching the brake line, melting the rubber piece on the prop valve, motor mount heat shields don't fit, gaskets blow, bolts are a pain to tighten, having to remove the oil filter base, backdrive linkage on a manual may or may not fit, etc.

I will have to think on the header thing for a bit more.

In re to pushrods... is that something to be determined at the time I choose stock rockers or roller rockers?

cutlassefi

Yes.

oldzy

ok, I am going to use stock exhaust manifolds. I want to keep it as stock looking as possible externally. I am also using the stock intake manifold. My list is above in post #5.

As for CR, I don't really know what is better? It does not really matter to me either way (9:0.1 or 9:5.1) I guess... but all I know for certain is that I ALWAYS ran Sunoco 'Ultra 94' octane gas in the past (not even the other higer octane stuff they had around at other gas stations. ie. Pioneer 'Platinum 93'). So as long as the Petro Canada's ('Sunoco' gas stations are no more around here) in the area continue (and hopefully b/c it looks like this Province - Ontario - is the only one to offer it) to sell the Ultra 94, that is what I will use. Perhaps just shoot for 9:25.1? I need some more help/advice on the CR choice.

cutlassefi

Anywhere in that range would be fine and safe.
And the cam will be somewhat mild so I don't think whether or not you go with stock or aftermaket rockers will really matter. Lifts will be around .500, fine for both styles of rockers.

captjim

http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/...ic.php?t=28012