I checked the oil yesterday and was concerned to see crusty bits in the oil on the dipstick - see pic. This is the Lucas break-in oil that has been in the car for several years now. The car hasn't been driven much in that time, mostly in and out of the garage and a few trips around the block. Measured in miles its less than 10 miles, measured in hours around about 20-30 hours of run time. The PCV system is not yet connect (on my short list of things to finish) so maybe the crustiness is blow-by or combustion gases contaminating the oil. I plan to change the oil and filter this afternoon, and will cut open the filter to look for bearing residue but wanted to ask for advice from the CO gurus as well.

Thanks

Rodney

 

Put a magnet on it. It is supposed to be a short term oil, maybe it has started to break down due to lacking certain additives?

 

It seems almost gritty. Like you said, that could be due to having a non-functional PCV valve. Let us know what you find out when you cut open the filter.

 

Probably those short trips over several years weren't enough to burn off moisture that built up inside the engine and what your seeing is some minor corrosion rinsed down and collected in the pan. You need to perform a couple of very short time oil changes and drive the car longer in between.

 

Whatever it is, don't run the engine until you've changed it. Then, if it were mine, I'd run it for no more than 100 miles and then change it again. Don't forget to save your filter for a closer look.

I don't believe break-in oil is meant to sit in the crankcase for years at a time.

 

Yeah, it isn't just the super high ZDDP that doesn't make it street legal. They also will have limited detergents and acid reduction components that regular oils contain.

 

I changed the oil with a good 10w30 dino oil and found lots of evidence of moisture; the oil filler cap was super rusty as was the inside of the filter. The good news is I found zero evidence of metal or bearing material in the filter media, but the oil was very thick, black and nasty. The dark color, I think, can be traced to the assembly lube used when building the engine. I will heed BangScreech's advice and will plan to change the oil again very soon. Thanks for everyone's input.

Rodney

 

If at all possible avoid short starts that don't get the engine up to full operating temperature and keep it at temp for 15-20 minutes.

 

Good advice for all of us. It's usually best not to even start it up if you're not going to take it for a drive.

 

I've had a chance to drive the car a little after replacing the break-in oil with regular 10w30 dino oil. The oil on the dipstick is now clean and no longer has the crusty stuff from the first oil change. I've made three 15 minute excursions now getting the engine up to operating temp as well as some driveway idle time also getting the engine up to full temp. I'm planning to change the oil & filter again soon but would like recommendations from the CO brain trust. For the initial engine start-up I ran Lucas 30wt break-in oil but never drove the car, just in and out of the garage and moving around the body shop. Should I run the Lucas break-in oil again as I didn't have any real drive-time on the first oil change? Seems like the drive-time on the break-in oil would help seat the rings.
Thanks,

Rodney

 

I would just put in whatever oil you plan to run.

 

I would put 10W30 Valvoline VR-1 Racing Oil in it. It has the zinc you need.

 

x2

Just use whatever oil you're going to put in the car normally.

 

I would run it longer than 15 minutes to consider it full temp. Oil temp takes much longer than water temp to get to full operating temperature.

 

I went Lucas 30 wt break in oil, Broke in cam and some run through on stands. Then Lucas 10W30 Hot Rod oil to get the Terminator X Max up and running. Then changed to Vavoline VR1 10W30 and will change again in a short amount of time.

 

Just chiming in to also say 'just run the normal oil you plan to run'. Ring seating either happens really quick or it doesn't happen.
Aren't you running a roller cam? I can't remember. IMO break-in oil is still a good idea for flat tappet breakin, but once that's done or if running a roller then it's not necessary.

 

15 minutes of run time is not nearly long enough to get the oil up to operating temp. Without being at operating temperature moisture will form in the oil, just like it did in your break in oil. Idling, even when warmed up it is even worse for producing unwanted moisture. Take it out and DRIVE it!

 

Hey Rodney,
How have you been ?
I assume you performed the standard initial break-in procedure when you first started the motor.
Given the scenario you described in your first post I think you are good. Especially that you have inspected the filler and found no evidence of foul play.
What you are seeing there is most likely a combination of initial break-in contamination mixed with a lot of condensation and surface rust built up from short on and off starts.
We are all guilty of this nasty habit as life is so busy.
Change the oil and filter, loose the break in oil and start a regiment of your favorite oil.
If you don't have a magnetic oil plug, I would get one. They are a great tool for initial inspection at every oil change.
If your not driving the car regularly and running it up to temp then an annual oil change is required.
Again, what you have there is no big deal considering the scenario.
Change the oil and filter and march on.
Enjoy that car !

 

Rick:
I ran Lucas brand break-in oil, straight 30 weight with zinc during the break in period. This is the oil that was crusty in initial post. I changed the oil & filter with a 10w30 conventional dino oil and ran it about 100 miles. Today, I changed the oil again with a 10w30 dino oil. There was alot of goop stuck to the magnetic oil pan bolt, I should have taken a picture before rubbing it off with my fingers; it was very gray and sludgey. There must have been some iron in the concoction as it was sticking to the magnetic drain plug. I cut open the filter and didn't find any shiny bits from bearing material but the filter had some of the sludgey stuff inside.

I've driven the car on several short trips and 3 longer drives 20-45 mins each. The engine gets up to temp pretty quickly and the electric fans keep the temp right around 185 degrees. I still haven't connected the PCV yet. I have a dual circuit valve from Wagner, just need to re-read the directions on how to adjust it for idle and cruise conditions. This is my first engine build so I'm very much a novice here. Is the sludgey stuff normal for a new engine during break-in? What could cause the grey sludgey stuff? Could it be assembly lube from the initial start up? Could it be rings or maybe the cam gear isn't oiling properly? It has a roller cam so it shouldn't be from the cam & lifters. I'm sending the oil out to Blackstone for analysis; this might be overkill but the peace of mind is worth the $28 lab fee.

Rodney

 

I received the engine oil analysis from Blackstone yesterday; this is the 2nd oil change, the first after the crusty, break-in oil was drained. The lab analysis shows high levels of Iron & copper in the oil, 3x the normal amounts (per Blackstone). This engine only has 100 miles of drive time on it. Are the high iron and copper numbers typical on a fresh build or is this an indication of excessive wear?
Thanks,

Rodney

 

Curious as well. I uses that oil as well, plenty of glitter in the oil. But I went flat tappet and had balance issues now fixed. Have a ticking lifter, cam probably failing but 80 to 90 psi cold and 50+ hot at 750 rpm, 10W30 VR1with one quart of 20W50. On oil change #5, probably 1 hour run time. How is your oil pressure?

 

Oil pressure was higher with the straight 30 weight break-in oil. With the 10w30 dino oil pressure is 60psi cold and 30psi hot at idle in park. Pressure drops to 20psi hot idle in gear; the break-in oil stayed up around 30psi hot idle in gear.

I'm curious, how do you do 5 oil changes with only 1 hour of run time??

Rodney

 

All good #'s, lower pressure with the 10W-30 is ok.

 

Hello Rodney,
How many oil changes have you done total to date. Seems like you ran straight 30 at break-in and did 1 change after with 10-30.
That second oil change revealed sludge on the magnetic drain plug.. correct ? But no concerns when opening the filter.
How did the drained oil look ?
20 psi at warm idle is fine.
More importantly is what are your pressures as you increase rpm. What is your oil pressure when cruising. Is your oil pressure increasing steadily with increased rpm. Is the oil pressure holding steady or fluctuating.
Also, why 10-30 ? Seems a little light.
Bottom line is that you need to have adequate oil pressure. And it seems like you do. At least at hot idle.
Let us know how the oil pressure is reacting at increased rpm and cruise speeds.
As for your test results, I wouldn't loose sleep.
Maybe send out another after couple more oil changes.
Also make sure you have adequate crank case ventilation.

 

With all this talk about oil I forgot ask, how is the engine running ?

 

Rick:
I'm on the 3rd oil change; 1st - 30w break-in oil, 2nd - 10w30 dino oil, currently on the 3rd round of 10w30. The lab results are from the 2nd oil change after draining the break-in oil, so about 100 real-world street miles on that oil without a functional PCV system. Not sure if 10w30 is too light; my bearing clearances are .0023 which I believe to be a little tight so I felt thicker oil wasn't necessary. I had an anti-friction coating called PolyDyn applied to the bearing shells which is just sprayed on the bearing shells. The machinist felt the coating thickness was not very consistent so he decided to running a few thousandths tighter thinking the bearings would sort-of "self-clearance" by wiping some of the PolyDyn material at start-up; the target bearing clearance was .0025. I didn't install a high volume oil pump, just the standard pressure unit from Sealed Power, although, I did shim the bypass spring in the oil pump for a little more base line oil pressure. Oil pressure definitely rises with engine rpm so not too worried about this.

The engine runs pretty well, I haven't dialed in the base timing or the vacuum advance yet. Currently base timing is 18 degrees, not sure how much vacuum advance is being added to that but the vac canister is adjustable. The engine doesn't ping or knock so it could probably use some more timing or vacuum advance. Compression is 10.1:1, running a FiTech EFI in place of a carb, the cam specs are 223/229 @.050 lift; it's pretty lopey at idle and doesn't like to idle below 1000 rpm when cold although it will idle at 850 when warmed up. I haven't beat on it too much yet, but it will chirp the tires on the 1-2 upshift even at mid-throttle. I've had oil seeping around the pan seals and at the rear main but I haven't had a working PCV system until 2 weeks ago. I finally set up the Wagner dual-circuit PCV with a home-made catch can; hopefully this will take care of the oil seeping.

Thanks for the comments,

Rodney

 

Good morning Rodney,
Looks like all things are normal.
You would be surprised how much break in crap hides out in oil passages.
Leave your current oil in there. Put 500 or so on it. 100 miles is nothing. Get some higher rpm cruise speeds mixed in there with some continuous drive time.
Take note of any changes in oil pressure. Especially at higher rpm and idle at stop and go. Oil pressure is a great indicator of bearing health.
​​​​​​As far as break-in, that baby was broken in by the end of your second Dyno pull.
Again, make sure crank case ventilation is up to par .
You say that your tune and timing is close. No ping, no hard starts, overheating or run on when shutting it down. All indicators of timing and tune.
I think it's time to get some miles on that baby as your working on final tuning.
Do another change in 500 miles. I think you will be pleasantly surprised.
Nothing to loose here.
Also, what are your oil pressure #'s at higher rpm ?

 

I didn't like what I saw, so I changed it many times. Looked much better the last two times. I had fan issues with the cam break in, had to stop half way. Had lifter noises, after cam break in, changed some rocker arms and now it is back. Changing rocker arms did nothing this time. Also realized I didn't put on a neutral balance flexplate after the cam break in. Mark sent me a Speedmaster he had checked for the correct balance. The Terminator X Max has also ran not so good on my mild motor, Mark's tunes helped but still stalls under load cold. Also no third gear, really hampers any miles put on this motor. Just got the 4L80E swap nearly completed, driveshaft going in to test it today. Our company sends oil samples to the lab, I may send out one.

 

Rick:
I took the car out for a little 45 minute drive tonight; happy to report the oil pressure is solid 50 psi at operating temp & 2000 rpm. This was my first time taking her up to freeway speeds too, the car 70mph really well; very smooth at these speeds. I've mentioned in my build thread that the steering is a little too light kind of "one-finger" steering. This made the car a bit twitchy at highway speeds especially on the grooved pavement section. The original Saginaw steering gear was rebuilt to a fixed 12.7:1 ratio, but I didn't change any of the other characteristics. I plan to pull the gear this winter and have the shop change out the torsion bars to reduce the amount of assist. I hope to put her in the shop next week to get the convertible top installed, then finish up the interior install and drive $h!t out of her.

Rodney

 

That's awesome Rodney !
Keep us posted and please post some pics of your car with the new top.

 

After the crusty break-in oil, I ran a conventional 10w30 oil for 250 miles then changed it out and sent a sample to Blackstone Labs for analysis - see report below. I noticed the aluminum and copper content increased in the latest sample: In 2024 aluminum content was 10ppm and copper 67ppm; the latest sample shows aluminum content at 24ppm and copper at 242ppm. I didn't think to cut open the filter this time so I don't have any empirical evidence to support the lab results.

Should these numbers be concerning? I've been pushing the timing advance a little looking for more off-the-line performance; does the AL number indication detonation or pinging (pistons are aluminum). Could the copper be coming from the spark plugs (again, thinking detonation/pre-ignition) or could this be coming from the bearings?

Thanks,

Rodney