junkyard72

Hey everyone, this is my first cutlass, its a 72 supreme. As of yet I haven't done any engine work on a V8, I love working on cars but V8 tuning and rebuilding is a mystery to me, I've never had anyone to show me so its been touch and go

When I got this car it ran great, started right up and ran well. I started it about every other day and lot drove it while working on the body and interior. Last week it died while it was idling, I assumed it was out of gas. (if it wasn't it was REALLY close). Yesterday I put some gas in the tank, crank but no fire. I poured some gas in the carb, same deal. The engine hot light is on when cranking, I hadn't noticed that before but its probably normal.

My engine bay is a mess, there is no breather on the carb, the dist is not tightened down, lots of vac lines hanging out wide open, and I don't really understand how the choke works but I don't think its working right. Despite all of this it ran well and started right up in this condition. All Ive done in the engine bay is replace a bad voltage regulator, and it fixed my charging problem. Then my battery went dead because my headlight switch was drawing a current somehow, unplugged that and that's fixed. I don't think these are related? I did connect the vacuum advance, it was unconnected. That didn't help anything.

I know enough to know that the distributor being loose will mess with the timing, but I always thought it was more of a way to dial it in than completely mess up the timing? I tried moving the dist a little while a friend turned it over, nothing. it will act like it wants to fire every so often while cranking, but it will not. I don't think its a fuel delivery problem...and since its trying to fire Im assuming its not my HEI

I don't have a timing light, but Im going to get one because I want to get this engine tuned before I drive it obviously. Once I get this figured out I will put the engine in time, new plugs wires, and hopefully a new carb with auto choke

any suggestions greatly appreciated!

Greg Rogers

If the dist was loose and could have moved when running that could have caused it to quit because the timing could be way retarded. But if you say you have moved it and it still wont fire I doubt that is it. When it cranks over with the starter does it sound normal or sort of just spin easy? If you can hear normal cranking then you should look at spark, but if it just spins over easy It could have jumped timing as with a bad timing chain. But you should check for spark. You can use a screwdriver stuck in a plug wire- hold the shaft of the screwdriver about 1/4" away from the engine block or manifold or some other metal and have a buddy crank it over, You should get a spark.- Try that. Then you will know which way to go from there.

oldcutlass

Ok, you probably have your timing all out of whack. If you have not removed your distributor, crank the engine so that the timing mark on the balancer is lined up with "0" on the indicator. Take your cap of and see that the rotor is pointing to where the #1 spark plug wire post is supposed to be. If it is pointing 180 degrees from there, then turn the engine 1 rotation and line everything back up. This will get it to where it should start.

If you have points then your dwell (you need a tach and dwell meter to set this) needs to be no more or less than 30. If you don't have a dwell then the point gap should be around .016 at the top of the point cam. Dwell needs to be set prior to timing. Then set your timing to spec, however with points 8-12 before TDC seems to work decently. With electronic start somewhere around 14-16. Set your curb idle to 650-750 RPM. Once you have timing set tighten the distributor down.

Here are some specs to go by:
http://www.tpocr.com/olds2.html

If everything ran before, it should run fine again. These older cars need attention once or twice a year.

cutlassjoe

One other thing you should do is get a breather and air filter. I can only imagine the crap being sucked into the engine with no air breather on it..All those wires and hoses do serve a purpose. I agree with the others the timing is probably way off the mark. Maybe try to find someone who is familiar with timing a car and get them to give you a hand.

Beob

Change you fuel filter, it's only a few bucks and could the problem since you ran you tank very low. You can also climb on top of engine and look directly down into carb while hitting the accelerator and see 2 jets of gas squirting. Do NOT crank engine when doing this.

MDchanic

I really can't say anything without seeing a few photos.

There are a lot of possible issues here, starting with the distributor possibly having moved, and I think we need to see the "lay of the land" before we can get to the next step.

- Eric

junkyard72

Well, first things first I bought one of those testers that looks like a spark plug that you clip to the block and put a plug wire onto, it didn't make a spark when I had someone crank it for me. So at this point Im looking at something in the distributor I would guess? Ive replaced a coil with a regular points system but this is a delco HEI setup

Its getting gas, which is a good thing.

I have a breather on the way hopefully, have yet to hear back

It does sound normal when cranking, and does sound like its trying to start

My battery keeps draining out completely, my gauge backlights are on whether the key is in or not. I assumed the headlight switch controlled this in some way, since the switch was off and my parking lights were on. I unplugged the switch and the parking lights went off but now I have the gauge light problem. Is there a switch for this and I just don't know it? Not very familiar with this car yet as you can tell! haha

Here's a picture or two of the engine bay, try not to laugh at my white vacuum hose, that was Bubbas work! Also included a picture of the tester, I want to make sure I used it right and didn't just fool myself before I start replacing the control module or something. It did say it was compatible with HEI

http://imageshack.us/g/1/10089382/

Thanks for all of the great advice!

MDchanic

Check the feed wire to the HEI for 12V when the ignition is on, about 10-11V while cranking.

The panel lights and parking lights should go on with the headlight switch, just like any other car - looks like someone's hacked up the wiring.
You've got your work cut out for you.

Oh, and no pictures showed up.

- Eric

Seff

Your choke needs a hot air tube - you can see the remnants of where it was on the intake. Without it, you choke has no effect, and you'll either have starting problems, or excessively high idle, no matter how warm the engine is.

Is the vacuum advance can on the HEI plugged into a vacuum source? DCVS, ported or manifold. It's not going to keep the car from running, but it'll keep it from running optimally.

Check that the HEI 12v plug is still attached. If it danced around, it might have lost connection, even if it's still attached. That would explain the lack of spark.

Get an air filter, you'll gunk up your carb with dust like this, not to talk about what it does to your engine.

oldcutlass

An air filter is the least of your worries. From the looks of your pictures,and the latest comments on your lighting issues, I really don't know where to start. I don't see how your car was running fine prior to this issue?

I would first cap every vacuum port you have until you can figure out whats what, with the exception of the brake power booster. I would then run a jumper wire with a 1/4" female spade to your distributor battery +, from the battery and then crank it with the key. If the engine does start, the key will not turn it off, you will have to disconnect the jumper wire.

Do this first as I mentioned above:
Ok, you probably have your timing all out of whack. If you have not removed your distributor, crank the engine so that the timing mark on the balancer is lined up with "0" on the indicator. Take your cap of and see that the rotor is pointing to where the #1 spark plug wire post is supposed to be. If it is pointing 180 degrees from there, then turn the engine 1 rotation and line everything back up. This will get it to where it should start.

junkyard72

I have planned to do that this weekend, I haven't been getting home until after dark all week. Im going to do what you said, I appreciate the info. I moved the dist clockwise this morning and it actually started, but ran rough like it wasn't getting enough gas. I had to floor the pedal to keep it running.

I knew it was rigged when I bought it but yeah it ran great, which surprised me a little. I did get the car for a steal and was expecting problems like this. I have the interior and body mostly straightened out, I wanted to use the engine as a learning experience and that's definitely what I got. The only thing on the lighting I can think of is that the problem appeared after I moved wiring around in the dash to find the plugs for the radio. I looked at it this morning and there are all kinds of wires taped together, etc. Considering just taking the dash out and going over it all, get it over with.



Seff the Vac advance is hooked up now, does this sound like the tube https://www.yearone.com/Product/1964-72-cutlass-442/tb3

Thanks everyone for helping me get this sorted out

oldcutlass

Again lets not worry about the vacuum advance yet. Don't worry about the choke tube yet Leave all the vacuum lines removed, marked, and ports capped. Turn your idle speed screw up a bit until the engine idles and warms up. Manually release the choke and wire the linkage open so that the high idle tab is out of the way. Get your timing set and lock the distributor down.

Once you get this done we will start on the carb adjustments.

Baby steps.