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Can someone tell me if there's a reason why somebody would do this other than being
Completely lazy?
I'm helping a buddy with a 77 Cutlass thats been sitting for quite some time. Have not really ever worked on Oldsmobile G Body but wood there be any reason why there would need to be this huge Loop in the heater core hose to the water pump? I was going to trim it up for him but I thought I'd ask just in case? I don't know why it need to be so long? They just had it looped under the AC compressor.
Last edited by scootinz; Jul 24, 2016 at 03:36 PM.
Yes,that is the original type hose,i'd bet the radiator was replaced because that hose would attach to it just above the trans cooler line.
Well, this hose goes right to the water pump. There's no spot for it on the radiator and I sure don't see any trans cooler. They had a trans cooler in the Cutlass?
That is completely lazy...period. And that car is an A body. The G body designator didn't hit the mid sized GM cars until 1982.
My bad I have a 69 GP and actually the G body was around prior to 87. The early GP's & Monte Carlos were G bodies then I had on a 87 GP (G body again) always forget that 73 to 77 A body designation. I just usually think of them as G bodies.... ha
That heater hose is supposed to pass right by the choke coil to help speed the choke coming off. Personally I like the electric better, more adjustable and less to go wrong.
That heater hose is supposed to pass right by the choke coil to help speed the choke coming off. Personally I like the electric better, more adjustable and less to go wrong.
Is that in print in factory literature?
Wondering where that idea came from.
It seems implausible to me that coolant, thru the hose, IF the heater is on, thru air, then thru the choke housing... is in any way affecting a choke coil that has hot air drawn over it which was heated immediately by the exhaust as soon as the engine started.
It seems implausible to me that coolant, thru the hose, IF the heater is on, thru air, then thru the choke housing... is in any way affecting a choke coil that has hot air drawn over it which was heated immediately by the exhaust as soon as the engine started.
Implausible as hell, but it seems like the kind of crappy, chewing gum and baling wire engineering that GM loved to use at the time, and that drove Americans en masse to the Japanese.
Maybe it was like a Great White North edition. I am pretty sure my 76 and 81 had it. Maybe it was just convenient to put a clamp to hold the heater hose on the intake.
Lazy? I think not. I'm not certain about 1977, but the G-bodies in the '80s ran the heater hose through a clip which held it against the choke thermostat, then looped it around the A/C accumulator (I think I've got my terminology right; I'm talking about the tall, silver cylinder) before sending it to the firewall.
You can see the kink in the hose where it used to pass through the clip. And if you twisted the hose right it might loop around the accumulator the way it should. Actually, it looks like it might be a little short overall. I bet that it was removed for service at some point and a few inches cut off one or both ends. Oh, and I think it's supposed to be routed to the driver's side of the oil fill tube, too.
Lazy? I think not. I'm not certain about 1977, but the G-bodies in the '80s ran the heater hose through a clip which held it against the choke thermostat, then looped it around the A/C accumulator (I think I've got my terminology right; I'm talking about the tall, silver cylinder) before sending it to the firewall.
You can see the kink in the hose where it used to pass through the clip. And if you twisted the hose right it might loop around the accumulator the way it should. Actually, it looks like it might be a little short overall. I bet that it was removed for service at some point and a few inches cut off one or both ends. Oh, and I think it's supposed to be routed to the driver's side of the oil fill tube, too.
My 88 CSC, which had an early 307 in it and my 81 and 82 B body I had, all had said heater hose clip. Pretty sure on the 76 Cutlass as well. I think the 260 in the 70, which is 77-82 might also have it.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; Jul 25, 2016 at 05:42 PM.
Now back to your regularly scheduled thread....sorry for the hijack.
No apology needed LOL but I can I guarantee you in 1969 and 70 the Grand Prix was a G body. As was the 70 Monte Carlo when it debuted as direct competition with Pontiacs 69 Grand Prix.. More verification here.
I've also listened to Ben Harrison speak at Pontiac events prior to his passing. In case you're not sure who Ben is, he was an engineer at General Motors Pontiac Motor Division, where he founded the Product Planning Division, and was key in the development of the GTO and Grand Prix. He was awesome to listen to speak because of all the rivalry between the divisions within GM and the fierce competition. It was awesome. anyhow, he was very clear in stating that the G body was designated for the Grand Prix because the entire speech was about the debut of the 69 Grand Prix and how DeLorean pretty much cheated the system by taking a GTO frame adding 6 inches to it claiming it to be a new "larger" G Body and still being able to throw a 428HO in the car getting around GM's new rules about large displacement motors in smaller body cars like the 69/70 GTO. The 69 Grand Prix had more horsepower than anything else coming out of the plant. The HO was rated at 390, and if I'm not mistaken the highest horsepower GTO you could get was 370. And if you still don't believe me come to the Indian Uprising showing in a couple weeks in St Charles Illinois as the Grand Prix is the feature car. I guarantee you there will be plenty of people there that will verify the G Body did in fact exist in 1969 and 70....
Last edited by scootinz; Jul 27, 2016 at 07:36 AM.
No apology needed LOL but I can I guarantee you in 1969 and 70 the Grand Prix was a G body. As was the 70 Monte Carlo when it debuted as direct competition with Pontiacs 69 Grand Prix.. More verification here.
I've also listened to Ben Harrison speak at Pontiac events prior to his passing. In case you're not sure who Ben is, he was an engineer at General Motors Pontiac Motor Division, where he founded the Product Planning Division, and was key in the development of the GTO and Grand Prix. He was awesome to listen to speak because of all the rivalry between the divisions within GM and the fierce competition. It was awesome. anyhow, he was very clear in stating that the G body was designated for the Grand Prix because the entire speech was about the debut of the 69 Grand Prix and how DeLorean pretty much cheated the system by taking a GTO frame adding 6 inches to it claiming it to be a new "larger" G Body and still being able to throw a 428HO in the car getting around GM's new rules about large displacement motors in smaller body cars like the 69/70 GTO. The 69 Grand Prix had more horsepower than anything else coming out of the plant. The HO was rated at 390, and if I'm not mistaken the highest horsepower GTO you could get was 370. And if you still don't believe me come to the Indian Uprising showing in a couple weeks in St Charles Illinois as the Grand Prix is the feature car. I guarantee you there will be plenty of people there that will verify the G Body did in fact exist in 1969 and 70....
Very interesting. My friend had a factory equipped '69 Grand Prix that was ordered with the 428 HO, 4-speed, A/C, posi, and leather interior. The build sheet noted it as a special build. It was sold to a Pontiac collector in Texas.
I thought the '69 Grand Prix and '70 Monte Carlo both simply used the four door frame to support the extended nose and body. Is that correct?
Last edited by anthonyP; Jul 27, 2016 at 12:42 PM.
Reason: Frame question.
No apology needed LOL but I can I guarantee you in 1969 and 70 the Grand Prix was a G body. As was the 70 Monte Carlo when it debuted as direct competition with Pontiacs 69 Grand Prix.. More verification here.
I've also listened to Ben Harrison speak at Pontiac events prior to his passing. In case you're not sure who Ben is, he was an engineer at General Motors Pontiac Motor Division, where he founded the Product Planning Division, and was key in the development of the GTO and Grand Prix. He was awesome to listen to speak because of all the rivalry between the divisions within GM and the fierce competition. It was awesome. anyhow, he was very clear in stating that the G body was designated for the Grand Prix because the entire speech was about the debut of the 69 Grand Prix and how DeLorean pretty much cheated the system by taking a GTO frame adding 6 inches to it claiming it to be a new "larger" G Body and still being able to throw a 428HO in the car getting around GM's new rules about large displacement motors in smaller body cars like the 69/70 GTO. The 69 Grand Prix had more horsepower than anything else coming out of the plant. The HO was rated at 390, and if I'm not mistaken the highest horsepower GTO you could get was 370. And if you still don't believe me come to the Indian Uprising showing in a couple weeks in St Charles Illinois as the Grand Prix is the feature car. I guarantee you there will be plenty of people there that will verify the G Body did in fact exist in 1969 and 70....
OK, that's what I get for skimming.
I think the Grand Prix and Monte's got that due to the extended nose.
GM body platforms had gone thru F-body by 1967 and (notwithstanding X & Y body) G was the next logical step for the new GP, and later the MC and... 1970 Cutlass Supreme! Yes, the formal roof Supreme was part of that body subset too, though they were later referred to as "AH",and some late-70s GM A-bodies were referred to as "A-special".
A 1977 Cutlass should have had the heater return hose routed to the cold side radiator
tank, not the water pump. That was part of a fix to reduce heater gurgling noise. My guess is car had a (wrong) radiator and water pump installed and someone was too lazy to cut the return hose to a manageable length.
Very interesting. My friend had a factory equipped '69 Grand Prix that was ordered with the 428 HO, 4-speed, A/C, posi, and leather interior. The build sheet noted it as a special build. It was sold to a Pontiac collector in Texas.
I thought the '69 Grand Prix and '70 Monte Carlo both simply used the four door frame to support the extended nose and body. Is that correct?
Nope in fact the trunk lid on a 69-70 Grand Prix is identical to a 69-70 GTO. Frames are identical except 6 inches added up front. They were considered an intermediate car.
Also, A/C was not available on the H.O. when you added the 4 speed option on a 69 Grand Prix so if that car was a factory-equipped AC 4-speed HO car that would be a 1 of 1 car. There was plenty of 4 Speed Grand prix's built (well when I say plenty, not really but it was an option at a very cool one at that) and of course there was also the SSJ which was the Hurst edition Grand Prix.
OK, that's what I get for skimming.
I think the Grand Prix and Monte's got that due to the extended nose.
Yeah, the hood and fenders are a mile long. This is my 69 428 HO. One of if not the best riding and handling old school cars I have ever owned... and I'm A Junkie....ask my wife LOL
Last edited by scootinz; Jul 29, 2016 at 03:55 AM.
GM body platforms had gone thru F-body by 1967 and (notwithstanding X & Y body) G was the next logical step for the new GP, and later the MC and... 1970 Cutlass Supreme! Yes, the formal roof Supreme was part of that body subset too, though they were later referred to as "AH",and some late-70s GM A-bodies were referred to as "A-special".
A 1977 Cutlass should have had the heater return hose routed to the cold side radiator
tank, not the water pump. That was part of a fix to reduce heater gurgling noise. My guess is car had a (wrong) radiator and water pump installed and someone was too lazy to cut the return hose to a manageable length.
That would make sense. There's definitely no place on the radiator for that hose. I tried doing a Google search for 77 Cutlass under hood pictures but didn't really find much as far as a good photo. I had originally thought that it went to the radiator but then I was like what goes on the water pump?
Nope in fact the trunk lid on a 69-70 Grand Prix is identical to a 69-70 GTO. Frames are identical except 6 inches added up front. They were considered an intermediate car.
Also, A/C was not available on the H.O. when you added the 4 speed option on a 69 Grand Prix so if that car was a factory-equipped AC 4-speed HO car that would be a 1 of 1 car. There was plenty of 4 Speed Grand prix's built (well when I say plenty, not really but it was an option at a very cool one at that) and of course there was also the SSJ which was the Hurst edition Grand Prix.
The Grand Prix was a factory 4-speed, A/C, leather interior, and 428 HO car. It had the build sheet and PHS document showing all were installed at the factory. The collector bought the low mileage and unrestored car unseen and had it shipped to Texas.
Your Grand Prix looks great.
I apologize to the original poster for getting off subject on their thread.
The Grand Prix was a factory 4-speed, A/C, leather interior, and 428 HO car. It had the build sheet and PHS document showing all were installed at the factory. The collector bought the low mileage and unrestored car unseen and had it shipped to Texas.
Your Grand Prix looks great.
I apologize to the original poster for getting off subject on their thread.
lol.... it's my thread I don't mind. I'll talk about anything as long as it has to do with a classic muscle car
I thought the '69 Grand Prix and '70 Monte Carlo both simply used the four door frame to support the extended nose and body. Is that correct?
No, that is incorrect. The 68-72 A body 4 door frame was 4" longer than their 2 door brethren and the length was added in the middle between cowl mount and next rearward body mount. The Monte frame was also 4" longer but it is longer in front of the cowl where the frame has turned in and straightens out moving the front crossmember and suspension forward but not the motor. Now, the Grand Prix is 6" longer than a 2 door and 2" longer than a Monte or 4 door so they are all 3 completely different frames and are not interchangeable. Now a little trivia: the 70-72 Monte Carlo hood is the longest hood GM made on any of these cars or any car for that matter!
You'll probably notice that the Hose has been rubbing on the Hood when it's closed as it kind of looks like a wear mark in the pic you first posted.... Just an observation
No, that is incorrect. The 68-72 A body 4 door frame was 4" longer than their 2 door brethren and the length was added in the middle between cowl mount and next rearward body mount. The Monte frame was also 4" longer but it is longer in front of the cowl where the frame has turned in and straightens out moving the front crossmember and suspension forward but not the motor. Now, the Grand Prix is 6" longer than a 2 door and 2" longer than a Monte or 4 door so they are all 3 completely different frames and are not interchangeable. Now a little trivia: the 70-72 Monte Carlo hood is the longest hood GM made on any of these cars or any car for that matter!
That is very interesting. Always thought GP and MC had the same wheelbase. Odd that the MC had a shorter front frame extension but a longer hood then the GP. Would had thought that one of the Cadillac would had been longer.
lol.... it's my thread I don't mind. I'll talk about anything as long as it has to do with a classic muscle car
Always fascinated learning something new with the classic muscle cars, especially when you thought you knew all there was to know. Also helps giving a break and temporary distraction from all of the day's problems.
That hose was intended to run to the water pump...period. I've scoured dozens upon dozens of these "A" bodies in the junk yards and never seen one run to the radiator.
You'll probably notice that the Hose has been rubbing on the Hood when it's closed as it kind of looks like a wear mark in the pic you first posted.... Just an observation
No actually this hose was tucked away down under the AC on the inner fender. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned it originally went to the radiator but I'm not sure I'm sold on that because when you look up the water pump it's got the neck on it for the hose. Either way I cut off the extra and put it back on the pump
No, that is incorrect. The 68-72 A body 4 door frame was 4" longer than their 2 door brethren and the length was added in the middle between cowl mount and next rearward body mount. The Monte frame was also 4" longer but it is longer in front of the cowl where the frame has turned in and straightens out moving the front crossmember and suspension forward but not the motor. Now, the Grand Prix is 6" longer than a 2 door and 2" longer than a Monte or 4 door so they are all 3 completely different frames and are not interchangeable. Now a little trivia: the 70-72 Monte Carlo hood is the longest hood GM made on any of these cars or any car for that matter!
Now this I'd like to do some measuring and because I have a 69 GP and I've been told to 69 to 72 GP hoods are longer than the MC's. Either way they're both massive hoods.
That hose was intended to run to the water pump...period. I've scoured dozens upon dozens of these "A" bodies in the junk yards and never seen one run to the radiator.
I'm kind of in agreeance with you I've never seen one run to a radiator not to mention when I look up the water pump for that car its got the neck on it for the hose.
Always fascinated learning something new with the classic muscle cars, especially when you thought you knew all there was to know. Also helps giving a break and temporary distraction from all of the day's problems.
Not to mention all the unknowns that still pop up. For example I'm struggling trying to find the correct power steering hose for the high pressure side of the pump for this car. Started reading around and guys were talking about how there were different suppliers for different factories so some of the crimps could be different right from the factory blah blah blah and just think that's for one hose on one car and with all the different divisions and factories back in the day I'm sure there's tons of variances people still finding out on these cars
