I was talking dollar for dollar HP/TQ regarding the big blocks. Stock low compression sbc curve is easy to fix. If is has flat tops, then bolt on some Vortec heads.

That's understandable.

I really don't know much about engine building. Just the basics. But I do know that a Chev 350 with flat tops and Vortec heads with a Comp Cam is going to get 13 seconds with some decent gears.

I plan on building a Vortec headed 350 Chev for my Olds and am expecting close to 400 hp. I already have the block bored out and pistons, so only will be spending about $1,500 or so more to get there. Give or take.

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/te...cam_355_build/

 

It's entertaining. My wife watches soap opera I troll CO. Better than TV

Just to spark another debate.
3 years ago I bought a 383 long block (in my Chevelle I wouldn't put it in the Cutty) with aluminum heads, 4 bolt main, mild hyd. roller camshaft cost me $3550 delivered wyth dyno sheet from BP 432HP. Add $1500-1700 for head milling/porting, intake, carb etc. it was a little over $5k.
That's for a brand new engine brand new components dynoed at 493HP and 483 TQ

How much would it cost to have somebody build a SBO to that HP?

 

Touché ....in that case, in your opinion what makes pro comp the better choice? Are there any documented differences in performAnce between pro comp and ebrock?
Disclaimer
These questions are simply for general discussion

 

Unfortunately we don't have an unlimited supply of imported goods for Olds like Chevy does. Nor the millions upon millions of dollars spent every year on research to find different ways to make HP like the SBC. Just how long your SBC would last if you used it to its full potential on a regular basis on it is another story. You can buy 950HP BBC for low prices too. But there is a reason that guys who use their engines to full potential all the time will still spend $25k for the same power level. Because they want it to last.

 

I haven't been using the ProComp heads long enough to give you dyno type results. But I do know the flow "potential" is superior in several aspects. Give me a few months or six to have the opportunity to get them on the dyno or on the track and go from there.
I really do think the ProComp is going to come out on top by more than just a couple ponies.

 

I ran high 13s with a 9 to 1 355 SBO with dished pistons, iron heads, 3.42 gears in a 3920 lb station wagon. 13s is EASY with any 350 ci GM engine. I do agree with you on one point, though,

"I really don't know much about engine building"........

 

OK, so if someone makes a post that is incorrect or states an opinion that someone disagrees with, especially if it is based on actual experience, what should that person do? Say nothing and let bad info continue to be perpetuated? Personally, when I disagree with a post I state the portion that I do not agree with a state why.

 

Probably another $2,000.......but it would be worth it!

 

Has anyone here done an apples to apples comparison of pro comp and edelbrock?

 

Jim I think this is not a place to debate people are here for input and diffrent views not just one . People like to get other peoples input. YOU KNOW diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. The info maybe wrong or you may disagree but I think since this is the internet by nature you have to take it with a grain of salt. You seem to go on these tangents where you disagree with everything although your disagreement is an opinion as well I feel its kind of a d!c* move. Although I don't agree with the chevy is better theory for many reason its a personal opinion . I think most people are smart enough to sift through all the bs. We don't need someone correcting or questioning everyone. It gets old real fast like I said in the past same 3 people all the time.

 

As in out of the box with no modifications? If that is what you mean then the answer is yes to a point. I've done flow testing on both using the same pair of valves and it is posted elseware on this site I believe. I know of no one who has done back to back dyno testing and find it hard to believe anyone would.
I have sonic mapped for wall thickness and compared runner shapes and what each head responds to and how easily the port responds to minor changes. The ProComp responds to minor changes much better. Through the sonic mapping the ProComp has more potential in some areas. They have material where the other doesn't which will allow a major difference in port design for those who want a seriously ported cylinder head.

 

Ok fair enough

 

how much effort was exerted into those heads to get to 13's. i'll sit on the couch with my summit catalog and telephone thank you very much. you can have fun with the die grinder and brazing iron.

I don't need to know much to spank 90% of olds and buick 350's out at the track. Just need to choose from the plethora of affordable aftermarket chev heads and have a sbc short block with flat-tops on hand.

It's not a matter of cubic inches. the after market support is weak for the sbo.

 

I ran high 13's with a stone stock 73 shortblock with a 260h cam and stone stock 72 7a heads with headers and intake and 600 cfm carb. I spanked lots of chevys . Anyone can order parts but making the combo work correctly is the tough part. Really the typical hot rodding stuff wil easily get any engine into the 13's with the proper running gear.

 

okay. how fast do you think you could go on a '68 block with stock dished pistons .06 over with #8 heads?

given 600cfm carb and headers

 

Not very fast with those 79 cc heads. I would sell those get some 72 or older sb heads with smaller chambers and you will be in the 9 to 1 range with a thin gasket depending on variable such as head cc's which can vary between 64 to 70 cc's and how far the pistons are in the cylinders. Careful planning and proper parts can yeild great results. I might run junk parts but my junk runs fast for what it is lol.

 

Yeah but then you run into unhardened valve seats. It's hard to win across the board with SBO compared to chev

 

The unhardened seats are complete bs. That's been proven time and time again. My current #6 heads have been on 2 engines and have unhardened seats and I'm yet to have issue. Lots of miles and quarter mile passes on that top end I been using.

 

I've got some #5's in my garage with some exhaust valves that are all-over-the place. Granted, I have some 441 chevy heads with exhaust valves straight-up buried an 1/8" deep.

The olds are in much better shape than the 441's but I'm still not totally convinced that the olds are fine with unhardened seats. The exhaust valves on the #5's are not great.

 

Some parts have more miles than others. I have built a chevy engine and a buick engine and a few olds engines. I personally see no challenge in building a chevy. They have potential and aftermarket backing but you can build an engine from a catalog not have to really try since they have been built over and over and over again and the combos are out there and have been proven. For me the fun was in smoking my friends at the track with their chevy powered cars with pretty tame combos with my sbo. My friend spent on his top end what I spent on my whole engine I put the hurt on him that day at the track.

 

True. I do not know the complete history of the parts.

Wanting a challenge is understandable and rewarding. I can dig that. For me I just want something that's fast and the most easily attainable.

 

Anyone who come on an Oldsmobiles site and states how much better Chevies are should be prepared to take grief.

 

[QUOTE=VinMichael;658280]how much effort was exerted into those heads to get to 13's. i'll sit on the couch with my summit catalog and telephone thank you very much. [QUOTE]


Very little, 3-4 hours of bowl work on each head, stock valves. If you would rather sit on your butt and let others do the work, then crate ebngines from catalogs are probably the best choice for you.

 

Olds heads and Chevy heads are two different materials. Not all cast iron is created equal.
Amoco white gas, the original unleaded fuel became available at the beginning of WWII. Every gas burning car, jeep, tank, airplane, of the allied forces used it. Millions of people ran it without seat problems for the life of their vehicles long before the mid '70s mandate of unleaded fuels. And they ran it in every make of vehicle there was. Unleaded fuel is not the cause of recessed seats. Poor tune up is a much more likely culprit. Prolonged detonation and pre-ignition beat the seats in. When the switch to unleaded fuels only was made machine shops were not over run by every motorist having to tear their engine apart because the fuel caused exhaust seat damage. I know of absolutely no one who had such an experience.

 

On the stock for stock debate the Chevies did not outshine the Olds. Up into the late '80s or early '90s Oldsmobile's had set and reset more stock class national records than any other make.

 

Jim I agree that f you come saying chebby is better be prepared but you borderline are picking on the guy.

 

Most of us don't have the knowledge or the tools to work on our heads. Crate engines are the smartest and most cost efficient way to go, if you are a Chevy owner. It has not to do with being lazy. Why go through all the trouble of rebuilding when engine can be ordered brand new. Not everybody here is retired and sitting home with nothing to do. For example, I work 5 sometimes 6 days a week, I have 3 kids ages 2, 4 and 7. My time is very limited. For me the crate makes sense and is budget friendly, I still do all the other work my self. I barely have time to drive the cars let alone try to assemble the short block or try to learn how to work on the heads. If olds had a crate i think that would be a lot of people buying them instead of doing the work them selves. For me it has nothing to do with being lazy it's just a smart thing to do cause I would rather be in the park playing with my kids then stuck in the garage trying to do the bowl work on the heads.

It's Saturday, 5am and I am up, not cause I like to get up at 5 but cause I have to go to work. Being lazy is not in my vocabulary.

 

I was sitting on the olds rocket hood last night having a debate with the wife holding a small bottle of Jack 'n' ice, Had some AC/DC's big ***** playing on my radio. I mentioned to her that head flow and good massaging is really important in getting things going . So we had to flip on it, naturally I took heads she wanted tails no debating ther, So I flipped 'er' over and got tail. Tonight I'm pulling out my double headed coin Haha.

 

I couldn't agree more. Good massaging of the head is really important. I think there is some members here who haven't had their head massaged in a long, long time which resulted in the poor flowing head. That affected the overall performance.

 

I'm sure I could get a few crated from China in cheap, cupcakes wouldn't travel overseas very well, But with a Stout Ram Rod Rocket, I'd take the back seat on this any night as I don't mind blowing my head.

 

Haha that's funny. Stout ram rod rocket, i am gonna share that with my wife after work. Thank you , this brightened up my morning

 

I think that's the best answer to OP's question. The best head is the one in the back seat of your Oldsmobile.

 

X finity lol !! With or without her full co-operation..... Torque puts 'er' in the back seat, Lumpy cam is the best vibration $$$ can buy. No armor all on seat !!

 

Originally Posted by coppercutlass Jim I think this is not a place to debate people are here for input and diffrent views not just one . People like to get other peoples input. YOU KNOW diffrent strokes for diffrent folks. The info maybe wrong or you may disagree but I think since this is the internet by nature you have to take it with a grain of salt. You seem to go on these tangents where you disagree with everything although your disagreement is an opinion as well I feel its kind of a d!c* move. Although I don't agree with the chevy is better theory for many reason its a personal opinion . I think most people are smart enough to sift through all the bs. We don't need someone correcting or questioning everyone. It gets old real fast like I said in the past same 3 people all the time.


Copper I have you on my ignore list. Why? Because I'm very tired of your cheap-*** thinking, and bragging about a pair of stock heads that ran 13s (barely).........BFD. When you hit 11s, let me know. OK now you can go WAA just like these other guys. I'm picking on you, they need to put some effort and thought into their Olds. Just why are you guys here? To wish you had a crate motor you could buy and drop in (or more than likely have someone else do it?) Lotsa pride right there!

 

The Olds 350 has flat top pistons for it too, also necessary for it, make it fair. Sunken valve seats are a Chevy problem. Buy Smitty's Street ported Procomp heads and get the .100" milling and make great power. The #8 heads need a few hours with a grinder. They have decent bowls, they are just shrouded just under the valve. A reasonable milling of #8 heads will equal 9 to 1 compression with flat top pistons.

 

@380 racer.
I take offense in your post and I have to elaborate why.
I don't understand your thinking, yes I admit I wish for an Olds crate. Like I said in earlier posts it's the most budget friendly thing.
Most of us don't race and don't have thousands of dollars to throw into the engine. Parts for an Olds being so expensive we would rather pay somebody to do it right then try ourselves and screw it up. Most of us are not engine builders and don't have the knowledge, tools or time to learn, but we are proud of our cars. That's why we are here….to learn.
Most of don't want to squeeze every HP out of the engine but just want something to cruise around in that has enough HP for occasional burnout, or to smoke a mustang perhaps every now and then.

I respect what you have done to your Olds engine. Not everybody has gone that route. But you have to understand that most of us are hard working people and we look for the easy and budget friendly way to improve our cars.
I take my self for example, as I mentioned I have 3 little kids, I support my family as my wife doesn't work.
I feel guilty for every penny that I put in my cars, I feel like I am taking away from my family. Everything I do to the car it has to be done right the first time cause I save for a long time to do it. I can't afford to sit there and learn and screw something up then I have to save again.
I do most of the other work my self, I pull and install the motor I put all my suspension together, I done many things to the car myself. When it comes to assembling the short block I rather pay the professional to do it because I can't afford to screw it up.

Most of us don't drive 1/4 mile at the time. Maybe you should stick to ROP

 

X2 not all of us here are heavy hitters with deep pockets, If I could do what Copper has done I would be excited and somewhat bragging myself. This is far from the norm of bolt on guys like myself, Straight up I have to congratulate Copper on his abilities and willingness to share both good and bad experiences. Also sharing an inexpensive alternative to others without deep pockets. Shame on you 380 racer you showed a red light here today.

 

Dude, Seriously? I work a minimum of 50hrs a week at the day job. Usually 55-60. I also run my home shop which takes another 30hrs average a week and more at this time of year since racers are getting their income return money back and want to get ready to go racing. Plus I take care of exercising 3 hunting dogs which love to run. (But no I do not hunt, Just like dogs and these three are all rescues.) Add in I have a wife who likes a lot of attention and 4 cats. If you wanted to say you have no desire to build an engine, or don't know how, then that would be one thing. But to say you don't have time means that you just don't want to. And to go to the dark side of SBC is ridiculous. Any one of us who specialize in Olds engine builds would be willing to work with you on shipping a complete ready to bolt in and drive Oldsmobile engine. That's why I try to keep between 20 and 30 cores stored.

 

380 I maybe cheap but I'm still doing better than others I'm willing to learn on my own . Sorry but when you have 200 dollars left at the end of the month for play money you gotta be cheap

 

Put-r-ther, I myself own and operate a small Tool and die shop, I have to work more hrs now then I had to 10 years ago with a lot smaller margins, 12-14 week delivery dates on most dies, 60 hr workweeks are the norm when a package of 5-6 new die build hit the floor. My Wife runs the office and my son comes into help out as well. The big $$$ haven't been there for years . Most of us are on a budget whether they like to admit it or not.
Cheers Copper your making good progress with your $200. a month!!!