Oldskool84

Procomp seems like it's just an edelbrock clone. Edelbrock heads aren't ideal for 350 , so what other options are there ?

captjim

Rocket Racing or factory iron.

jag1886

I wish someone would build a head aimed at the small block crowd all those alum heads are designed for big blocks or it would be nice if someone built a set of short popup pistons that would work with those big block heads on a small block.
Unless you are building some mega HP unit I'd port a set of stock heads.

Oldskool84

Yep, I think I'm just going to leave the factory ones on. Put as much $$$ towards the bbo as possible. In order to prep for the monster 496 that BTR is going to build for me, what should I do to the suspension, tranny, and gears??

Oldskool84

Oh !! What about differentials, pros and cons?

captjim

You can order custom pistons with whatever dome, dish, p/h, bore that you want. I don't know how many times I can say the same thing; the market for small block Oldsmobiles just isn't there. We don't even have a connecting rod despite the fact that evero 330-403 ever made uses the same one. What does that tell you?

DoubleV

Suspension depends on how you want to drive it and what you want to do with it. For a tranny, you can't go wrong with a TH400 which can take alot of abuse. Gears will again depend on what you're looking to get out of it and the engine of course should be built to match whatever gearing you have. Without overdrive, steep gearing can make daily driving a bit unpleasant for some so keep that in mind.

This is all going to cost you BIG bucks. Be prepared.

Oldskool84

Duely noted my friend. Aside from showing my *** at a stoplight occasionally , I'm pretty much a cruiser.

cutlassefi

Why not?
Compare the low lift numbers on the Procomps vs stock sb irons. The Procomp numbers are better.
Mill the Procomps to 68cc then just use a different piston when you build your big block to achieve a proper compression ratio.

And not sure why you're doing 496 for a cruiser, but it's your money!

Jmo.

olds 307 and 403

Problem is the .100" mill on the Procomp heads and then mill the RPM intake. Then electric fuel and adjustable valve train will be needed, although iron heads will need the adjustable valve train in most cases. I asked and no answer, what is a .100" mill charge at shops, even a ball park price? Does the intake need the same .100" cut? Edelbrock's heads need about a .050" cut since there chambers are actually what they advertise them at.

coppercutlass

I still want to see an apples to apples comparison of a set of lightly re worked heads vs the procomps on a built short block. To see if the added cost is truly worth it.

cutlassefi

And he wouldn't or couldn't use all that in the big block?
That's my point. It'll still be cheaper to do all that to the 350 with Procomps than to do 2 sets of heads and possibly 2 valvetrains. He could also do a roller cam and reuse the lifters with the new build. I'm all about not doing things twice.
He'll probably have $150.00 in cutting the heads and intake. IMO it's still worth the trouble and not having to do it twice.

olds 307 and 403

It would have to be the same dyno, same short block and both with the same style/ratio of roller rockers, spring rate, carb, intake and chamber CC. I know you have shown the ported 397 hp Edelbrock build to the Horsepower 385 hp build. I would take the horsepower build any day. More torque and would just be nicer on the street. I believe Hosepower they didn't touch the carb on any of those pulls. In theory the Edelbrock or Procomp heads should beat any SBO heads, except max ported heads. Better flow, top to bottom. The 403 is easy to get good compression with the available pistons for it, when using aluminum heads. My used custom pistons will need any heads but early SBO heads milled to reach 9.5 to 1 even with the longer stroke. Of course Edelbrock's will only need a .010"-.020" cut for my build.

coppercutlass

That's what I'm talking about a 10 to 1 short block same sortblock and dyno. Back to back . Both are tuned for optimum performance.

coppercutlass

What I'm after is not to see if the aluminum heads are better but to see what the gains are . If its really worth the extra cost will you gain 20 hp 25 hp 40 hp ? If I'm gonna belive the hype I wanna see real proof not flow numbers because in the end its hp numbers or track numbers. I would love to see track numbers but for what I want to see hp numbers will do.

70cutty

Why build a 496? Man…. you gotta crawl before you walk. Reading from your other posts you are going from one extreme to the other.
I was the same way when I started my first build. Listen to what these guys have to say.
A lot of knowledgable people here. CO has saved me tons of money.
You can build a stout BBO with aluminum heads that will behave on the street a lot cheaper. Whats your goal? What's your budget? I mean you sound like you just hit the lottery. All this stuff is expensive. Building a Olds vs. building a Chevy can cost 2-3x more.
496 in a cruiser????
You need to have a goal set in order to build your car properly as the rest of the car needs to match your engine. I learn this the hard way.
Tune the 350 so it runs well. Update your suspension, brakes, rear end, etc. make sure your transmission gets build to handle the power.
Then build a stout BBO. You don't need BTR or his 496 in my opinion.

Disclaimer before anybody gets their panties tied up in a knot:
Above statement is from my personal experience and it is used solely with intent to save OP's money and to prevent him from building something he may not be happy with and that may fall apart the first time he attempts to "show his *** at the stoplight". This is my opinion that I am entitled to as this is a open forum.

Oldskool84

I respect all of your opinions ,and as always, I appreciate the advice of those who've been there and done that. However, it is jmo that if my car is the same as every other car in a parking lot that I may as well save my $$ and drive a POS. I strive to be different in almost everything i do, & sometimes it costs me a lot of money but I've learned to live with that. Now, I've already updated my brakes by converting my front brakes to disc so I think my next move would be to work on the rear end,tranny, and then suspension.

coppercutlass

You want diffrent run an sbo everyone runs a 455.

Oldskool84

Lol, touché

olds 307 and 403

Bill claimed 50 to 75 hp on 455's in his book with no other changes, iron to Edelbrock's. It should not be much different for a 350. Same as running a stock Qjet and iron manifolds. Are headers worth the PIA for a 25 hp/tq gain, most think so. Sames goes for the cost of American racing headers vs the cheap ones.

DoubleV

Was that bone stock good heads ( not J heads ) vs out of the box Edelbrocks?

BTR is one of the few places I would trust with an engine build as it seems like Bill really knows his $hit. With that said, I have noticed that he seems the only one out there that claims Edelbrocks are that much better than stock. Not saying he's lying. Not at all, but there has to be more to it as many others out there don't seem to be getting those big gains.

oldzzy

IMO Just rebuild your 350 with a few upgrades and enjoy if your just a cruiser. I don't get why everyone wants a stroked out 455 if your never going to use it to it's potential. You'll save yourself A LOT of money if you just rebuild what you have, and like Copper says..... if ya want to be different, run a small block!

MDchanic

Also remember that in an American car with a light rear end and rear wheel drive, there comes a point where the amount of power you have doesn't matter, because you can't get it to the road. That's where you begin narrowing your rear, tubbing your wheelwells, and installing 15" wide tires. If you're not intending to go that far, then the amount of horsepower you're talking about may be meaningless.

- Eric

olds 307 and 403

Yes, I believe that is what he mentioned. He also said flow numbers be dammed and he saw gains on the dyno. I wouldn't believe those inflated Mid Am numbers for iron heads floating around either. I sure someone flowed BBO big valve iron heads and they flowed more like 220/160.

jag1886

I'd be worrying about the engine last, to go through the rest of the car to stand up to 500LBS plus torque will take some time and a lot of cash, you can't leave any stone unturned when you are going to stick a monster like that in the car. I think you need to some more research on how much car it takes to handle a 496 engine.
When I did my car I did absolutely everything to the car before I even started looking for an engine/transmission core.

70cutty

Another option is to buy my 70 355 recently rebuild. 9.8:1 compression, forged pistons, ported #6 heads, rpm intake, custom lunati cam. etc. carb to pan 3k shipped. Bolt it in and go.

oldzzy

^^^^ that right there!

MDchanic

+1. Considering your previous discussion, I wouldn't turn that down.

- Eric

coppercutlass

Jag actually the gm a body has a very good plat form for handling power . Simple tried and tured methods will work like boxing the lower control arms , relocation brackets , adjustable uppers , trick springs , 50\50 shocks and a air bag in the right rear spring. The fronts trick springs and 90\10's . Lots of guys with 10 sec. A bodys running stuff like that.

Oldskool84

Not a bad deal bro, but i don't got the$$ right now. Contrary to popular belief I haven't hit the lottery (lol), I'm just making plans to do my build and mods over time.

coppercutlass

How do plan on spending big money with btr then. It aint cheap.

67 Cutlass Freak

Have you asked Bill yet about what heads he would recommend? Let me throw out a couple ideas. You might want to pick up a set of Bill's Ebrocks, with the offset push rods. You could have them ported later when you're ready for the 496. You could bolt them on a quality road tested salvage yard special. From all your threads it seems like you are thinking big, and want to go fast, but really don't have the money, just yet. These guys have given you some good advice. Does your car have an engine in it that's running right now? If it does, I would concentrate on the trans, diff, & suspension to make your car ready for the monster motor. If you can find a salvage yard 455, that's a runner for cheap, I would do that for now, so you can make your car ready for the BB switch over. You'll need stronger front springs, different headers, and obviously a different intake. You're accessories should switch over. If you're running a turbo 350 trans, they can be built to handle big power, and are lighter than the 400. Another option, if you're dead set on doing the SB first for temporary fun, You could get the ProComps fairly cheap, or use a set of BB cast irons milled down to bring you're compression back up. That would be an ultra cheap performance 350 package. Talk to Bill about the various head gaskets that are out there to get your compression up. When I put together an engine, I usually will put together the lower end first, because that's where most of the machine work takes place, and it seems like 2/3 the cost of the engine is in the bottom end. Obviously if you're using exotic heads that ratio changes. It just seems like the lower end takes the longest. You asked in a different thread if anyone knows a good machine shop in Hawaii. I saw this thread on Bill's forum, with a fellow Olds enthusiast from Hawaii. You might want to contact Mr. 2Loose you can read about his car here-
http://highperformanceolds.com/phpbb...php?f=1&t=4145

Oldskool84

Gonna get the short block in about 6 mo and just do the rest little by little. In the meantime and between time I'm doing homework on differentials and transmissions

coppercutlass

A shortblock to handle 500 hp will run over 2k. I spent 2k alone on a 355.

70cutty

^^

Oldskool84

Yea man I'm basically trying to have my cake and eat it too. My 350 runs well enough to be a weekend driver so I'm not going to do anything more than rpm intake and Harland sharp rockers. First things first tho,... I'm taking my car to Walt's performance this weekend to tear it down and determine what size/type cam is in it.

olds 307 and 403

$150, even $250 in milling is no big deal, keeps Procomps under the Edelbrock price.

Oldskool84

Lol well you've got about 2+ years to put money aside for that show bc I'm dead *** serious about this build, & I'm NOT changing my rim size.

Oldskool84

Hey can u send me a link for procomps? I've been searching high and low but still can't find it thru google

DoubleV

I just typed in 'Procomp heads Olds' in the search engine and got a butt-load of hits! Bernard Mondello is a good guy to talk to about the Procomp heads.

Just out of curiosity, how fast are you looking to go ( 1/4 mile )?