Macadoo

Okay, so what do you folks call it? MAW incidents? I've gone from doing a full tune-up to wanting to pull the motor. It's leaking from everywhere (or so it appears). I want to replace the oil pan gaskets, the front seal, the rear seal, the valve cover gaskets, etc. And although the dealer agreed to replace the front seal on the tranny, I'm not sure they did. Or they did a poor job. I still see trans fluid at the torque converter cover. Plus I've gotten the motor completely stripped anyway. All the accessories are off including the radiator and water pump.
So my question is; how difficult is it to remove the engine? I'll need to rent a cherry picker and purchase an engine stand (I understand the four wheel stands are necessary). Will a 750 lb stand be enough? How much finesse does it take to unbolt and separate the trans and engine? And getting it back in and lined up?
Thanks guys. I'm always impressed with how willing you are to help!
-Mac

Finn5033

You want to make sure and be safe first and foremost. That being said I have now removed and installed the engine in my cutlass by myself twice. I had never done it before. So if you are mechanically inclined you can do it. It would certainly be better to have at least one person helping. For the engine stand I have a 1250lb stand I got from northern tool and to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable putting the engine on anything smaller than that. When removing and re-installing the engine you want to be sure you support the tranny well. From my limited experience having the tranny in the right position is what makes this process go smoothly. Others with more experience will chime in.

oldcutlass

Anyone is qualified to do mechanics. All it takes is a bit of research and the proper tools, sometimes the improper ones work also. I like to pull the trans and engine as a unit, it's much easier to separate once it's out. Plus you don't have to wrestle with it under the car.

You can rent an engine stand when you rent the cherry picker.

Macadoo

Thanks Finn. I have a good floor jack and a couple of good jack stands (and a daughter that's semi-willing to help). Here's my major obstacle at the moment; I have limited shop space and a 2 inch tall threshold between the shop and driveway. It will be necessary to push the car halfway out to get the cherry picker underneath and pull the motor. But now the car is half in and half out of the shop. So if i support the trans with the floor jack, it's stuck there until I can re-install. Can the trans be supported with some sort of bracket so the car can be pushed back in?
As far as my skills go; I've done most of the repairs to our daily drivers for years. And I did a successful heads-up rebuild on an 88 a few years back, but that was with the motor in the car.
I'll get out there today and start spraying the exhaust to manifold bolts with PB blaster...just in case

Macadoo

Whoa Oldcutlass, that sounds like it's beyond my...well...at least beyond my equipment. But it would solve my support problem. When do you remove the trans, while it's on the picker or the stand?

JPMDaddy

my shop used an adjustable tie down strap (3-4 inches wide) from one side of frame to the other under the tranny - cinched it tight before removing block - everything stayed in place

Finn5033

That brings me to a point I was thinking when I read Oldcutlass's comment. It is nice to be able to pull the tranny out at the same time if you have the room. The second time I pulled mine I was having both rebuilt so I made it work. If you want to be able to push the car back in you should be able to run a ratchet strap across the frame and wrap it around the tranny once to hold it up.

kitfoxdave

You CAN do it! all it takes is time, patience and a WORKING MAW helmet! I pulled the motor and transmission together... but I also had the old core support out (completely rotted away on drivers side) A tilting mechanism helps as well! Get a buddy to help when you do the actual engine pull out... (Offer beers afterward!) once it is ready to go it does not take very long. I pulled the tranny off the motor while on the picker (removed most of the bolts, loosened them up while in the air and reachable) then lowered it down on the floor and separated them. Lifted them individually after that and put them on roller dollys from northern tool. Having the tranny out makes it good to clean it up some as well, and easier to put them back together, before sticking them back in the car.
THEN.... while you have the engine out, MAW.... OH NO!

oldcutlass

I pull them both and lower to the ground and then remove the trans. The car just needs to be high enough for everything to swing in or out, or remove the front sheet metal as a unit.

It really is a whole lot easier that way. Just disconnect the driveshaft and wrap a bag around the trans tailshaft. Disconnect the trans lines, kickdown cable or switch wiring, modulator hose, and the 2 bolts for the mount and your ready.

Macadoo

Reverse the procedure to reattach? It still sounds a little scary but it would make replacing the seal easier.
Finn, I like the ratchet strap idea. Anyone know, off hand, the weight of the tranny?
And how about a used motor stand? My local rentals have the picker but not the stand. There are a bunch of stands on CraigsList.

oldcutlass

Used engine stands are fine, and usually you can find one for $100 or less.

kitfoxdave

The TH350 weighs about 135 lbs from researching it before I pulled mine... IIRC the engine and transmission together was about 750 ish lbs...

Macadoo

Thanks for the vote of confidence Dave. My MAW helmet is Superglued to my head, or so it would seem. Sometimes I feel like it's one step forward and two steps back. But it's the journey that matters, right? All I know for sure is that I'm having a blast!

Macadoo

135 is manageable, thanks! Found a like-new folding four-wheel 2 ton stand for $80. Picking it up tomorrow. I guess I'm on my way

kitfoxdave

Great attitude to have... I have replaced or rebuilt everything underneath the car, and most of the engine compartment... (AC will get done later) Yeah new wiring too... Almost ready to fire it up again, then on to bodywork and interior.

Macadoo

Dave, it sounds like we're on the same path, including putting off the AC, lol. How long since it's been started?

Octania

Thanks Finn. I have a good floor jack and a couple of good jack stands (and a daughter that's semi-willing to help). Here's my major obstacle at the moment; I have limited shop space and a 2 inch tall threshold between the shop and driveway. It will be necessary to push the car halfway out to get the cherry picker underneath and pull the motor.
=======================
Hell push it all the way out
over there under that shade tree with a big limb for the comealong- who needs a cheery picker? You gotta get your 'billy on.

But now the car is half in and half out of the shop. So if i support the trans with the floor jack, it's stuck there until I can re-install. Can the trans be supported with some sort of bracket so the car can be pushed back in?
===============
A couple coat hangers is the traditional method, but, sure, ratchety straps or rope will do also. Coat hanger is great for across the trans face, ensure converter stays in until you want to remove it.


As far as my skills go; I've done most of the repairs to our daily drivers for years. And I did a successful heads-up rebuild on an 88 a few years back, but that was with the motor in the car.
I'll get out there today and start spraying the exhaust to manifold bolts with PB blaster...just in case
===================
Can you cut the pipes [replace later] and work on the rusty fasteners out of the car, with lots of heat and wax?

As for eng/trans as a unit, I don't see that as an advantage, since you have to lift the car to gain clearance, then angle everything... unbolt more stuff than you need to... Less juice spillage, no cooler lines to break off...

I usually prefer:
Inspection cover, vacuum line

Three TC to flexplate screws- DO NOT lose these. Put 'em right back in the TC holes after engine is out. For peace of mind, paint mark the flexplate and TC for exact same assembly position.

6 trans to engine bolts. LONG extension, like 2-3 ft long, swivel socket 9/16", your favorite air tool or long handle flex head ratchet. All easy from underside. MAYBE the top 2 from above.

Voila. Trans no longer holds it.

Remove the starter and oil filter adapter to make engine extraction easier. Motor mount thru bolts should come out easy- 5/8 socket on bolt head, 11/16 wrench on nut.

The usual operating procedures- START all three flexplate to TC bolts before tightening any of them. Wiggle trans into place, rotate TC as needed to be sure it's engaged into trans and into crank pilot hole. grease or anti-seize ALL fasteners before re-assembly.

Use air tools if at all possible, with the possible exception of the exhaust, going by hand may prevent twisting them off, you have control of the process and a feel for how it's going. Wear gloves to protect the hands.

kitfoxdave

13 months.... but I only get to work on it about every other weekend, and I have a bad leg that slows me down... occasionally I get to work at a buddy's place on detail parts during the week for a few hours... but not often enough. Hope to get the engine fired up this week. and then work on getting it together to re-register it.

brown7373

A friend and I were sitting around discussing what we had done to our cars and he said something I have always remembered. Neither of have any automotive training and are just enjoying the hobby. He said, "if you can read a book (service manual), you can fix almost anything on the car". Just take your time to study and be familiar with what you are doing and it should go well.

steverw

I dont usually take the engine and trans as a unit, many people do nothing wrong in doing so. I just dont like lifting all that weight over the radaitor core support. If your core support is out already then i say do it, if you need the tranny out. Its easy to replace the front trans seal with it in the car once the motor is out. Pull out and turn the torque convertor till it comes off, when installing push in and turn back and forth until it is in ALL THE WAY. If you can get your hand between the TC and the trans then its probably not on far enough, push and turn till it slips on farther. Label anything like wire harnesses if you think you wont remember where they were attached, but there usually pretty easy to figure out. If this is your first engine rebuild, there is alot of info available to read and a LOT of knowledge on this site. Many good people here that will help. There are no dumb questions, Everyone here had to learn at some point. I just finished rebuilding my 67 E block 400, havnt got to work on the car much lately. Will build a rotisserie soon to do a body off resto.
Good luck and ask any question you may have.....as i said there is a wealth of info here from very willing to help people.

Finn5033

X2 on removing them seperate. I've done it both ways. However when putting them back in, easier if you can put them in together. Just my opinion

Macadoo

Hey, thanks Octania. That's quite a walk-through and I appreciate the advice. This must be how my students feel on the first day of class; making a painting or sculpture seems like "magic". Nah, just a little instruction and a lot of patience and practice. I'm feeling more confident about doing this and really pumped to work on the motor without hours of leaning over.
Thanks to this site I got the crankshaft pulley off and took out the balancer bolt using the "bump the starter" trick. Woot!
Dave, let us all know how it goes, will ya?

Macadoo

Thanks for the TC advice Steve. That's the kind of "finesse"-ing I was asking about. Books are great and this chassis service manual is better than most, but there's nothing like experience.
Finn, now you've really got me thinking.

tecar442

2X on the non trained hobbyist. You CAN do it. Don't get in a hurry, ask all you can, read all you can. I've removed and installed my engine three times, with and without the tranny. You can do it either way though it's easier to install and remove the tranny on the picker, exhaust manifolds, too. A little help will certainly come in handy My wife helped and she appreciates it alot more now, also has some pride and ownership in the car.
Make sure you remove the distributor and trans linkage before trying to pull it. Good luck!

kitfoxdave

I HIGHLY recommend the recipe for 1 part Auto transmission fluid and 1 part acetone.... that stuff worked where pb blaster and kroil would not even begin to help! one of the TOP hints I got from this site! put some on, it bubbles a bit and about 15 minutes later, the parts come apart like they are new! Amazing stuff and CHEAP!

Lady72nRob71

Glad you have a helmet for the future, but I think you put it on WAY too late!
Take your time. Plan it well, do things safely, and ask questions when needed. Find a buddy to help should your daughter not want to touch a dirty engine.
I will be watching this thread. This is the "it could have been me" situation a couple years ago when I did my engine bay.

tecar442

This was me! I started out wanting to make 20 footer. The MAW's turned it into a class winner in the OCA Nats. I had a friend who has done several restorations who I could ask as well as many folks on this site and others I could rely on for tips. Get a factory assembly manual. Don't get in a hurry, do your best on each step, one step at a time, and don't set any deadlines and you'll never have any "wish-I-would'ves". Have fun and in the end you'll have every reason to be to have pride in your ride.

Macadoo

That's one of the reasons I'm enjoying myself. I'm used to "I got two days before Monday. This HAS to be done". Not with this car. Admittedly, I'm anxious to drive it but I'm giving myself until next summer for the motor, brakes, and wheels.
I did a compression test this afternoon. It was a little disappointing but I'm not sure of the accuracy since I couldn't warm the engine. The passenger bank from back to front:
135, 126, 140, 140
The Driver's side from back to front:
120, 140, 145, 155
I added oil to the low cylinders but the pressure only came up a pound or two so I'm thinking leaking valves. Could it be weak springs? I should mention that I have the carb removed and tape covering the manifold. For some reason I only pulled the tape from the primary bores.
Time for head work? The heads have the number 7 on them but I've read a lot about 7a heads. Are these 7 or 7a? Might it also be time for oversized valves? I was already planning on new/better springs. CutlassEfi is grinding me a custom cam and I bought a new Edelbrock 3711 intake.

Macadoo

Would fingernail polish remover work also? We always seem to have plenty of that stuff around, lol. It' like 99% acetone. Do you mix this in a spray bottle or brush it on?

kitfoxdave

You can apply it any way you wish!... I have brushed it on, and dripped it on with an old eye drop bottle.

Macadoo

Thanks Dave. Maybe a squirt gun? Lol. Hey, that just might work!