im rebuilding the original 350 in my 72 cutlass supreme and want some advice on what I can do for a little more power. I have about 3500 4000 to put into it. it has the 4bbl carb currently.

 

Higher compression pistons would help, headers, bigger cam, bigger valves. It all needs to match up though. What gear in the rear end do you have and how much power you wanting to add?

 

it has the stock gears I was thinking about going with 323 gears. that engine had 190 stock hp I would like to get up to 300 hp but would be happy with anything from 250-300. it will be a cruiser not a racer.

 

From what I know you can also shave the heads down but idk how far because you don't want to throw a gave through a piston but a good cam and new valve springs will also help
If I'm wrong someone please correct me...

 

what could I expect with new lifters, cam, maybe bigger valves? im sticking with the stock 4bbl for now. it is being rebuilt

 

also I have about 3000 total to put into the engine. things it needs currently. 1. rebuilt carb, new lifters, heater core and some now gaskets. with that it should run like new. it currently runs and doesn't sound too bad.

 

I do believe with the bigger valve it either helps with the compression or flow not ro sure and if and i would say you might get about 40 to 50 more hp again if im wrong please xorrect me

 

72 supreme

 

My apologies the valves will help with compression and if you poet the heads you'll have better air flow which should give a bit of in crease in hp

 

I will probably just get everything cleaned up and replace what it needs and go from there. I just figured if someone is working on it why not have them go a little deeper into the motor to get some more horses? what about a different carb and intake?

 

A carb and intake is a good step bit I don't think you will see as much improvement as you want unless you do some more to the bottom end

 

any brands to recommend? where can I get the best value.

 

I had a nice 350 spent 2500 carb to oil pan and ran high 13's. It was a freshened up 73 350 with 72 heads to gain a little compression. Edelbrock performer intake, 1405 edelbrock carb, headers. If it runs good and you want some giddy up and go. A rear gear swap will be good if you have something like a 2.56 I would go 3.42 for a major improvement you will feel. Also adding a nice 2200 stall will add some off the line pep. The 72 had huge dish pistons that will limit compression, along with the kind of cam you can run. I would price out some speed pro pistons or probe pistons as they are a great upgrade and wil let you gain some compression to run a bigger cam to make some nice power . I think I spend 2k on my bottom end on my current build and 1500 in the top end this was with swap meet stuff and nice good used parts that where re usable.

 

so if I had 3000 would that normally get me a decent rebuild with some performance upgrades?

 

I have some smaller dish pistons if you chose to go that route they are stock style. Cast .030 over 14cc pistons I will sell cheap

 

I think 3000 will get you stock style rebuild with some upgraded pistons and a mild cam with just freshened up heads imo I don't see. Why that's not atainable with your budget . I do a lot of trading and swap meet buying stuff to stay in budget. For example a used edelbrock intake ranges in the 100 to 150 range that saves you a good chunk of change. Finding heads that have been rebuilt and guys decided to upgrade you can usually save money there to. Doing this will make your build take a little longer but you will be able to stay in budget. My curent engine took me over a year to build but if I had a shop do it I would be around 4500 to 5k . All said and done I'm right in the 3500 ball park range.

 

How do you know what sized pistons to buy for a car? I'm seeing '0.010 over, 0.020 over, etc'

I assume my cutlass has never been rebuilt, but is the only real way to know is take the heads off and measure the bore?

 

Stock is std. When they are replaced it is usually stamped on the tops of pistons if they are sped pros or stockers. Not sure on probes. Stock bore is 4.057 so if. The bore measure 4.067 which the bore should measure bigger than that by a few thousanths for piston clearances you have .010 pistons. If your block is in good shape you might be able to get away with a hone and forged pistons but this will be something that should be decided once the machine shop tells you wether that's a good idea or not. Taking the heads off is pretty much the only way you will really know .

 

That's very cool.

I plan on doing a stock freshen up over the winter this year. Since i replaced my modulator my transmission is shifting great.

It's really hard to find a good machine shop up here in Montreal so i might end up heading down south to get my block checked and honed.

 

Either the 14cc cast or 6cc Speed Pro forged would be needed. You will have those awful 24 cc big dish piston in your motor, stock. For your goals, basic 3 angle valve job, mild cam and refreshed bottom end should be possible in your budget.

 

hmm. my problem is that im trading some accounting and tax work for the car and work on the car. car is 2500 and they are putting 5500 worth of labor and parts into it for me. all new bushings, console and shifter, putting in some new metal in the only two bad spots. all new weather striping. new windshield. the problem is after all that and doing the lifters, heater core, carb rebuild and gaskets, they still are not up to 8000 yet. needed the ideas of where to put the extra money.

 

You might want them to rebuild the trans and rear diff vs. He engine if it runs good. The engine can come later but if they set you up with a nice trans and rear end. All you gotta do is the engine and you will be set up with a nice rear gear and possibly a nice converter and all that stuf will be usable on a future mild build.

 

the tranny is being serviced it shifts great and doesn't seem to have any problems. how much would it cost to so with a 323 gear.

 

I think rebuilding a rea diff with new gears is in the 1000 ball park range. I paid 750 with a slightly used gear set.

 

I'll preface this by saying I've never worked on a V8 (but that will be changing real soon) although I have a lot of experience building aircooled VW engines.

I'm not aware of any way that valve size will affect compression - this is a whole other animal. Valve size determines how hard your engine has to work to clear burnt gases from the combustion chamber and suck in the next batch of fumes. The harder the engine works for this, and any other task, the less power left to make it to the rubber.

Like someone else mentioned, your best approach is to consider the sum of the parts rather than piecemeal throwing things into the mix.

Valve size, head porting/polishing, carb selection, intake selection all affect each other, just as exhaust system selection and design. All can add power when matched properly - but too much of a good thing can end up as a loss.

Pistons and cams are another set of parts that can affect each other's selection. Don't want that lumpy cam pushing a valve through a piston.

Keep researching, asking questions and come up with a full plan, and you'll get the best bang for your buck. I think I'll be learning a few things from this thread too, which will help with my impending top end rebuild in my 350.

 

ok next question. I found a good price on a rebuilt 455 with a turbo 400 tranny. if I go that route. what all will I need to put it in my cuti and get it driving?

 

ok so I am going to go with a full rebuild on my 350. can I get some brand names and specs on what to use?

 

New exhaust manifolds or headers. Maybe a 1" spacer in between the alternator bracket and power steering bracket. A different drive shaft.

 

Oops. That's for the 455 swap.

 

who makes a good performance rebuild kit?

 

Speed pro has a pretty complete kit.

 

For the amount of money you have you are going to get a real nice stock rebuild. You need to turn and balance the crank/rotating assembly, bore and deck the block, use a stock cast type piston probably a 69 9-1 set would work fine, mill the heads just enough to get them flat have multiangle valve job done, cut and add a set of PC valve seals, replace all the valve train and use some small RV type cam, rebuild the rods and use a new set of ARP bolts, use a stock volume oil pump, upgrade the rear crank seal to a rubber one. This will get you a lot more HP than any SB engine that came out of the factory and you will be able to drive it anywhere anytime.
You should change the gear to at least a 3.08 that will help acceleration and you can go deeper it's just the gas milage that will suffer.
Talk with your machinist about what all to do (be realistic) and he can supply most of the parts, most shops like to supply the parts if you want a good guaranty. Ask lots of questions and follow his advice.

 

ok on that rebuild you mentioned jag1886, how much of that cost is parts? and what is labor normally? I have around 3000 for it. plus what is price of tranny rebuild parts and labor.

 

I have 5500 total to get some stuff done on the car.

 

Can't tell you exactly but my last engine the parts where more than the labor. You need to find a machinist and talk it over with him. All I can say is don't let him sell you stuff you don't need like replacing all the valves or putting in hardened exhaust seats (unless you are going to drive that car a 100,000 miles.
There are a lot of things they will try and nick you for that you don't really need on a stock type engine.
Your $5500 budget should cover everything including the transmission build TH350's are cheap to rebuild you don't need much beyond a stock rebuilt plus a small shift kit, you will probably have money left to put on a set of headers and dual it. Shop around on the rear end work if you don't put in a Posi and just change the gear is pretty reasonable, this is one thing I found that it pays to buy your own parts and carry them in, drive line shops that I have dealt with really jack up the price on parts, you need to find out what gear the car has now as that limits what gears you can buy to fit your particular carrier.