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The Pandemic has started a fire under my *** to get a proper motor for my 70 Cutlass S. I am starting a new thread so it is easier to follow. I am contacting Parkland Engine Rebuilders today to get a timeline on the block. If it isn't ridiculous, I will aim for the week after Christmas for drop off. I need to get themotor pulled, have weekend and Christmas Eve off. More to come.
I assume you got the parts otherwise I would have just done a 366 ish ci. With a 425 piston. I'm currently working on a big block headed 355 with speed pro flat tops. . Essentially building the same engine I have now but with a heavier Piston and big block heads with just bowl work and risers filled. Power won't be too much of focus as long as j have a back up this engine will be for index racing I just need to run 12.0 . But .... I wanna see how close it performs compared the current engine with the ported heads and lighter Pistons. Good luck with your build
Thanks Copper, I love your car and that your 350 gets faster and faster. A spare motor is a good idea, you just never know pushing a motor hard, **** breaks, always at the track or the day before you go. My 88 Cutlass is giving its life and many parts for this build, some staying like custom exhaust. Some temporary like a 73 350 and TH2004R. Yes, I will do my current parts run down.
Current parts run down
completely untouched 76 short block
330 forged steel crank offset ground to 3.5" stroke by Ohio crank.
Scat sbc 6" long, 2" journal rods and rod bearings
Clevite cam bearings
ARP 7/16" head bolts
ARP 1" longer 302 main studs for a Halo or girdle. FYI 302 main are the same length as 1-4 SBO mains.
1/2" CNC Halo, better made than the J+S Halo
Hydraulic Roller lifters
I also have Performer and RPM intake. I also have a 1" open aluminum spacer, modified for less air restriction. I may try the spacer on the RPM intake.
Fully rebuilt with a couple of thousand miles #6 iron heads 2.07/1.56 valves,with positive seals machined and the bowls opened with a bowl hog cutter. I am pocket porting them over the next couple of weeks, may do a separate thread.
Comp Cams 1.6 roller tip and Scorpion 1.72 full roller rocker arms, both for 3/8" studs, guide plates and 5/16" to 3/8" conversion studs.
Everyday Performance custom 800 cfm Qjet with adjustable APT
Mallory Breakerless distributor, adjustable mechanical and vacuum advance, set to 18 mechanical in by 2800 and 11 degrees of vacuum advance.
Mallory Hyfire 6AL with adjustable rev limiter, will set to 6000.
Serpentine belt drive and new Flowkooler Billet impeller, reverse rotation water pump on the way
New A body replacement aluminum/plastic rad
Dodge Stratus Fans
TCI Fastgate floor shifter
Good TH2004R trans, 86 model appears rebuilt, shifts perfect, needs upgrades.
TCI Lock UP Kit
PATC 2200 to 2500 stall, flashes at 2350 stall and deep trans pan with drain plug and a stacked 5000 rpm governor modified by me.
Sanderson shorty headers with custom 2.5" X pipe dual exhaust with shitty 2.5" tail pipes. Terrible job with a terrible price. I should have bought Flowmaster tail pipes and installed the tail pipes myself. Hack jobs like this is why I do all the work on my own cars, all 5 of them. I will add an O2 bung for a wideband tuner.
Remember these are the parts I HAVE, not what I want.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; December 30th, 2020 at 04:56 AM.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
Current parts run down
completely untouched 76 short block
330 forged steel crank offset ground to 3.5" stroke by Ohio crank.
Scat sbc 6" long, 2" journal rods and rod bearings
Clevite cam bearings
ARP 7/16" head bolts
ARP 1" longer 302 main studs for a Halo or girdle. FYI 302 main are the same length as 1-4 SBO mains.
1/2" CNC Halo, better made than the J+S Halo
Hydraulic Roller lifters
Fully rebuilt with a couple of thousand miles #6 iron heads 2.07/1.56 valves,with positive seals machined and the bowls opened with a bowl hog cutter. I am pocket porting them over the next couple of weeks, may do a separate thread.
Ck that crank for runout. How far are you from the North Dakota border?
Last edited by VORTECPRO; December 18th, 2020 at 07:07 AM.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,721
Originally Posted by coppercutlass
I assume you got the parts otherwise I would have just done a 366 ish ci. With a 425 piston. I'm currently working on a big block headed 355 with speed pro flat tops. . Essentially building the same engine I have now but with a heavier Piston and big block heads with just bowl work and risers filled. Power won't be too much of focus as long as j have a back up this engine will be for index racing I just need to run 12.0 . But .... I wanna see how close it performs compared the current engine with the ported heads and lighter Pistons. Good luck with your build
Thank you, I will get it checked when they internally balance the crank. Ohio crank may have done it, hard to say. The clearances are supposed to be .0025", will probably get that checked as well.
No they should flow 210/160 as is. No flow bench locally that I know of. Not going nuts, just blending in the bowl hog cut, tear dropping the guide boss and removing the air bumps.
Called Parkland Engine Rebuilders. Pretty busy but getting a call back on prices. If they are too back logged, Jasmine has a machine shop, not that much farther. My Wife has taken care of his Mom in the hospital.
Vortecpro as much as I would love to flow them it's not in the works. The current heads where not flowed and the big valved C's will not either. I'm just gonna let the time slip tell the tale.
Although when my heads where ported by my good friend 67cutlassfreak. He did a set of SBO heads with a slightly better bigger valve than mine that flowed slightly better than out the box edlebrocks. My current #6 heads have just 2 inch valves. So the idea in my mind is the C's with very little work and the 2 inch valve will pretty much flow about the same as my SBO head or appx. Again it's not very scientific but all a mental approximation of what could be. Certainly the speed pro slugs will add a curve ball to an extent but this current 354 build will very much by like many of my other builds. Absolutely low buck bare bones and highly questionable.
To be honest if it falls within the loose side of factory tolerances like plus .0005 from mid tolerance numbers I run with it on the rods and mains the speed pros last time I used them what measured was .004 I don't. Get overly concerned on a specific number. I will try to find my notes on the last few engines.
On the gas block, the oil holes are no longer properly aligned, cutting a 3" to a 2.5" journal. Cutlassefi's 4" stroke crank is equal to a 425 crank stroke wise, just with 2.5" mains, sbc or LS rods and better material and lighter. I will be happy if I match your power numbers, you have a very nice 350 build.
On the gas block, the oil holes are no longer properly aligned, cutting a 3" to a 2.5" journal. Cutlassefi's 4" stroke crank is equal to a 425 crank stroke wise, just with 2.5" mains, sbc or LS rods and better material and lighter. I will be happy if I match your power numbers, you have a very nice 350 build.
Oh okay. Yeah getting the itch to start the D block build. Will be having Mark help me once again.
But first thing first, gotta finish Kelvins ride
I know Mark was talking about doing a run of billet cranks with 3" mains. Of course is you find a 425 crank, usually the rods are reduced to BBC journals. Then BBC rods and short pistons. Being able to add 4 bolt main caps plus the thicker mains support a lot of power.
I did do a run of 3.00” main cranks and all 10 of them are gone already. I even only have two 2.500” main left as well. Looks like another batch is in order.
Good to know Mark. Glad there has been enough buyers to make these runs worthwhile. Another thing to remember is the costly cutting of the counter weights to fit a 425 crank in a diesel block. In the end, you are left with a 50+ year old steel crank and depending on the initial cost, might only be a few hundred less than a new better crank. My 330 crank cost me $600 US a few years back for the core and offset grind. With balancing, it won't be far off $1000, maybe more than.
Good to know Mark. Glad there has been enough buyers to make these runs worthwhile. Another thing to remember is the costly cutting of the counter weights to fit a 425 crank in a diesel block. In the end, you are left with a 50+ year old steel crank and depending on the initial cost, might only be a few hundred less than a new better crank. My 330 crank cost me $600 US a few years back for the core and offset grind. With balancing, it won't be far off $1000, maybe more than.
You’d probably have about $1000.00 for a properly done 330 crank, add about $200-$400 to do a 425 crank. Both costs reflect the extra cost of balancing them internally. In that form they need at least 4 slugs at a cost $75-80 each.
My Stroker cranks run about $1850.00. They’re billet, Knife edged, and use a SBC rod journal with all the rest of the dimensions being std Oldsmobile. 2.500” main crank weighs about 56#, the 3.00” main should show up in the low 60’s, a helluva lighter than even a totally reworked 425 crank.
Hope this helps.
You’d probably have about $1000.00 for a properly done 330 crank, add about $200-$400 to do a 425 crank. Both costs reflect the extra cost of balancing them internally. In that form they need at least 4 slugs at a cost $75-80 each.
My Stroker cranks run about $1850.00. They’re billet, Knife edged, and use a SBC rod journal with all the rest of the dimensions being std Oldsmobile. 2.500” main crank weighs about 56#, the 3.00” main should show up in the low 60’s, a helluva lighter than even a totally reworked 425 crank.
Hope this helps.
Just wondering what they are worth. Always interested is doing a flip, buy and sell to support my Olds habbit.
Aways see a 330 pop up forsale.
As for 425, I know where 3 are. Just my work schedule doesn't allow me to grab them.
Just an FYI Mark, when I do build this D stroker, you are building it!!!
just wondering what they are worth. Always interested is doing a flip, buy and sell to support my olds habbit.
Aways see a 330 pop up forsale.
As for 425, i know where 3 are. Just my work schedule doesn't allow me to grab them.
Just an fyi mark, when i do build this d stroker, you are building it!!!
I found a Mahle 2618 forged 4.065" bore, 7.9cc dish, 1.550" compression height, 1mm/1mm/2mm ring pack piston. That equals 363 CI, interesting. The Icon piston is also 2618, older 1.5mm ring pack and 15.2cc dish, needs 62cc chambers for 9.6 to 1 with 0 deck, even with the larger bore. I would not mind polishing the combustion chamber, nice and smooth. According to the compresion height calculator, with the 3.5" stroke and 9.33" deck height, a 1.58" compression height is needed. Either piston is .019" to .030" in the hole. If this is right, I would deck it .020" and use a .030" MLS head gasket. Not looking for a max ci build, using the huge pile of parts I have for a reliable, cool running street and maybe a once or twice a year strip build. The bores look really good, hone to fit should save some $$$, will see what Parkland Engine Rebuilders say.
Motor out, all pulled apart. All the rod bearings were scored, surprisingly the bent rod bearing was no worse. The cam had multiple lobes with wear compared to others, failing on multiple lobes. Not bad for a 45+ year old short block, $120 for the complete 76 350 with great oil pressure and compression when bought, ran for probably 5 years. Fully rebuilt #6 heads with 2.07/1.56 valves with a bowl hog cut, $400 cost, was $1200 worth of machine work and parts supposedly. It was $225 US for the cam and lifters. I used the garbage Cloyes Street roller timing set, they were slack new, not going that way again. A pile of snow Tuesday so I will take the block Christmas Eve, if they are open and the call goes well tomorrow. Pics in a few.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; December 20th, 2020 at 03:59 PM.
There is room in #6 heads for 2.07 valves?
Yorkton,just drove through there yesterday coming back from Northern BC.
Seen the Melville sign, almost turned right to come snag that rod for the 200r4. Lol
Stop by, the next time you are out this way, the rod is yours. Still on the car, I will pull it before the 88 goes bye bye. Yes, I measured them with a caliper, it showed 2.05", no Olds valve that size, it must be a 2.07". I just did a rough measurement with the valve in the head. I will remeasure, I will pull some valves tonight.
Last edited by olds 307 and 403; December 20th, 2020 at 04:32 PM.
Stop by, the next time you are out this way, the rod is yours. Still on the car, I will pull it before the 88 goes bye bye. Yes, I measured them with a caliper, it showed 2.05", no Olds valve that size, it must be a 2.07". I just did a rough measurement with the valve in the head. I will remeasure, I will pull some valves tonight.
When I did the heads for Kelvins motor, went with 2 inch. Was unsure of 2.07 fitting. I played it safe.
Got to make a trip to Regina quickly, cowl and rad support bracing there to pick up. Since have days off, gotta get there sooner than later. Next chance I get will be April
Well all the bearings were toast, just the rod bearings were worse. Yes they are 2.07 confirmed by the caliper. They are close to the edge of the chamber. There must be a burr on the edge of the exhaust valve, could not pull the valve out, moves fine till the very edge.
Talked to Parkland, talked to Dean I believe. They are open till Wednesday and then closed to January 4th. At least a couple weeks till they can touch it. I will try and kiss the wife nice for her to drop it off or I will take Wednesday off. The wrench in it all, there is supposed to be 40 cm of snow tomorrow. Our family is famous for going out in the worst conditions possible. I guess the 4x great Uncle, Dr John Rae, the Arctic explorer, is a part of us.
I did a quick clean up of the oil pan and put it back on the motor, so it won't be sitting on the mains during transport. The SB pan clears the Halo, which is good, the BBO replacement pan should allow a little more room. I will lay down a tarp, put the motor in the back on a tarp and another tarp over top weighed down. I will fog the motor with storage spray. I am hoping my Wife can drop it off tomorrow but it will depend on road conditions.
I did a quick clean up of the oil pan and put it back on the motor, so it won't be sitting on the mains during transport. The SB pan clears the Halo, which is good, the BBO replacement pan should allow a little more room. I will lay down a tarp, put the motor in the back on a tarp and another tarp over top weighed down. I will fog the motor with storage spray. I am hoping my Wife can drop it off tomorrow but it will depend on road conditions.
I never sent my Wife in due to the storm and us having plans for a sleigh ride, happy Wife, happy life. My Wife is going to drop it off on the 8th, her first day off, not open till the 4th. With honing the block, it allows for a better piston choice and should save some money. Plus thicker cylinder walls is always a good thing.
This came today. It is the Flowkooler part number 1772 4.3 V6 diesel reverse rotation water pump. It is to provide maximum cooling for the new motor. Still have not heard anything from the machine shop on my block.
Correct, the housing is unique. I am glad the gasket wasn't damaged as you can't buy it separately. My last one from Rock Auto came with a destroyed gasket, RTV for it. Who knows if this impeller is any noticeable difference vs the current stamped impeller. Unfortunately the aluminum housing is no longer available in the reverse rotation pumps.
What's different about the housing. I'm just curious if you run it in reverse technically wouldn't you have to change inlets and outlets on the rad. Or is this strictly for serpentine set up which changes the flow or whatever. I only day this because I run a water pump drive and have driven the stock pumps with the cast impeller in reverse with no bad effect. Ignorance is bliss I didn't even know it back then until someone at the track pointed it out lol.
Yes, it turns in reverse due to the serpentine belt drive. I know when sbc trucks got the regular rotation water pump put on by accident, they ran hot. Very interesting an Olds can go either way. Was it a closed impeller pump?
December 18th, 2020, 05:21 AM
