my72olds

Ok with pb and Ac how nasty of a 350 can I build?
I've read build after build and no talk about running Ac.
Is it all in the cam?
I'm still collecting parts right now but it would help to know which way to go.
Any help would be great . Thanks in advance

GEARMAN69

Idle quality and cam for sure hand in hand with A/C idle working well but also take advantage of a factory A/C idle control solenoid on the carb have loose enough converter so it is not tugging on the engine at idle while the A/C is on.

I would think milder than a W31 but also use of variable duration lifters like Rhoads would be an option to push your limits but keep good idle and vacuum assuming proper early timing advance and overall tune.

my72olds

Well buddy sounds like you know what your talking about. Might have to get you to set this motor up lol How's that car of yours looking

GEARMAN69

We can talk later , my car well it's is still waiting on me to rub off some more oxidation with the amazing turtle wax ..Lol. I did just paint one of the heads gold though

my72olds

Good deal. I always had a thang for those cars , I've just gotten so deep in this vert now there's no turning back ... Maybe one day one will show up in my driveway for Father's Day ....
A man can dream right

cutlassefi

It's not quite as simple as what gearman says.
Cam duration is instrumental in idle quality no doubt. But so is overlap, the installed icl and compression. It's a combination of all of those things.

jensenracing77

Just an FYI... I contacted cutlassefi for my 455 build. Told him my goals and A/C and PB were part of my plan. He nailed it perfect! I simply could not be happier with my engine. I used quality parts and had him supply a cam to fit my needs.

GEARMAN69

Let us not start another pissing match Mark. I didn't even give him a suggestion yet so don't assume I cannot pick a camshaft or try to jade others opinions of me sir.

cutlassefi

No pissing match at all. Your answer was incomplete, plain and simple.

GEARMAN69

Yeah it was incomplete because we had not even discussed any of his particulars like gears , compression ratio or goals yet and had not given him any recommendations yet either. Merely referenced the old W31 cam saying it will be milder than that to get what he wants as far as strong 350 with a good idle decent with the air on.

cutlassefi

Wondering how gears would have a direct effect on idle quality. can you explain for the sake of everyone please? Thanks

GEARMAN69

Its about the over all combo man, how do you not put that together. Cam choice is about the whole combo remember? Is he keeping it 8:1 and 2.56 gears or going 9.5:1 with 3.42 gears IDK yet, little cam bigger cam..MMM?

cutlassefi

Or how about 9.5:1 with a 2.56 or 8.0:1 with 3.42's? What would you do there?
It's really not about the gear dude, it's about your compression and engine combination primarily.

GEARMAN69

If I have two cars identical with 9.5:1 except big gear differences it wont be the same cam. I am on the conservative on my choices side especially on small blocks. Depends on the intended use of the vehicle as well. Cruise range and torque converter choices need to match as well. Not gonna go with a bigger cam that really should have a decent converter then keep 2.56 gears even if the 9.5:!1 is enough for the cam. Your not fooling anyone here man. A guy that wants to drag race with a 8:1 engine but has a nice converter and set of gears will get a hotter cam with tighter LSA than the same engine otherwise would with stock converter and 2.56 gears. This is kindergarden level stuff dude

my72olds

Well by far this is not going to be a track car though I do want it to run hard and sound great . Stop light action just nasty old cutlass olds powered but I also live in texas and it gets hotter than a 2$ pistol in dallas tx . With that being said power brakes and Ac is a must . I just pulled my rearend out getting ready to posi and gear and new seals , I thought 3:42 but I'm all ears here for input and opinions . I'm staying with the 350 trans , my block is stock right now but I've been gathering parts for the build . Rpm performer intake fresh 10/10 crank 1.6 comp roller tip rockers screw in studs and guid plates hooker ceramic coated headers I had planed on running 7a heads with some work done , money in heads not an issue as a matter a fact I'm not looking to cut corners I want to do it once and be done so with that I figured of course big ss valves 6cc or flat top pistons I want 9:5:1 compression ( I think) I want to get pump gas and out here we have ethanol free good gas if that makes a difference.
I hope this infor helps out with talks opinion
Thank you all

my72olds

I guess I should that I'm a good 1.5 hours of highway cruising from my favorite hot rod hang outs . So lets add that to the equation shoot maybe I'd be better off with my stock gears help me out here

cutlassefi

That's all irrelevant. You said "duration" was what determined idle quality. I said that wasn't all. You've now basically agreed with me. That was my point, your initial information was incomplete.
Thank you.

GEARMAN69

I recall only mentioning use of duration with Variable-Duration lifter option comment. Duration, Overlap LSA, ICL installed at of course contribute to idle quality besides cubic inches and compression ratio and matched converter and gear setup. Now that he said 9.5:1 (6cc dish likely) , big valves and porting like I am doing 240/180 cfm +, good headers , RPM and 3.42 gears and Th350 so back to his question. With a 2800 converter this is about as hot I could go and have a fair idle but only with use of Rhoads lifters adjusted correctly on studs and that carb AC idle solenoid added. No less that 112 LSA or less than 108 ICL

This is about as hot I could go with use of Rhoads lifters included
Howards, Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft, Oldsmobile 39° V8
Oldsmobile 39° V8 260-455 1967-1990
Advertised Duration: 281/287
Duration @ .050": 227/233
Valve Lift w/1.60 Rockers: .512/.512
Lobe Separation Angle: 112
Intake Centerline: 108
Valve Lash: Hyd./Hyd.
2400-6200. Fair idle, street/strip, broad mid range power. Needs 4 barrel & headers.

Here is a Herbert that with use of the Rhoads could work.

http://www.herbertcams.com/herclo4n-...0-cam-lifters/
CLO4N 225/235 DUR@.050, 495/520, 112LC, 2500-6800 Cam & Lifters

Without Vari-Dur lifter I still would stay down here and still have that 2800 converter
Howards Cams, Street Force Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft, Oldsmobile 39 degrees V8, 213/223 @ .050, .480/.480, 112 LS
Oldsmobile 39° V8 260-455 1967-1990
Adv. Duration: 269/277
Duration @ .050": 213/223
Lift: .480/.480
Lobe Separation: 112 LC
Includes Lifters: No
1200-5800. Street Force™ 2, Good idle & throttle response. Needs 4 barrel & good exhaust.
In Stock

Mind you this was just some shelf stuff on this brand I was sharing not the only choices.

I myself really would like to try the old Comp 275 Dual Energy 219/233 in my car later but its 110 LSA and 106 ICL could be edgy with AC idling but it is in the right range for this build too.

I had looked at doing a custom Howards for my car for running manifolds using there 221 @050 lobe on the intake with a 112 LSA at 9.5:1 108 ICL and their 235 lobe on the exhaust but with this guy and headers maybe use the 227 or 233 lobe on exhaust depending on the flow bench results and E/I ratio This custom combo would be pretty good for this setup and AC idle solenoid added

Here is shelf Ultradyne close to what I mentioned above

276/286 1500-6000 IN 276 EX 286 IN 221 EX 230 IN .485 EX .485 112 DEGREES
POPULAR JET BOAT CAM,STOCK EXHAUSTS. GOOD
FOR HIGH PERFORMANCE STREET CARS LOPEY IDLE

here are smallish but tight LSA cams below that would run good all around , sound good and may not be too rough for AC idle but feedback would be nice from others on quality and vacuum.

Curious about this little old school Isky smallish but tight 108 Hi Torque
691264 2000-5800 IN 264 EX 264 IN 214 EX 214 IN .496 EX .496 108 DEGREES
TREMENDOUS TORQUE & GOOD MIDRANGE POWER,9-10.5:1 COMPRESSION,GOOD IDLE
STOCK CONVERTOR,3.23-3.70 AXLE RATIO,UP TO 625 CFM CARB

and this Isky

691270 2000-6000 IN 270 EX 270 IN 216 EX 216 IN .470 EX .470 108 DEGREES
GOOD ALL AROUND PERFORMANCE,FAIR IDLE,STOCK CONVERTOR,
3.70-4.11 AXLE RATIO,UP TO 650 CFM CARB,9.5:1 COMPRESSION


Here are some old crane ones below with 112 LSA that would be in the range too

804541 H-272-2 2000-5000 IN 272 EX 284 IN 216 EX 228 IN .484 EX .512 112 DEGREES GOOD IDLE,DAILY USAGE,OFF ROAD,TOWING,PERFORMANCE AND FUEL ECONOMY
2600-3000 CRUISE RPM,8.75-10.5 COMP.RATIO

804551 H-284-2 2500-5500 IN 284 EX 292 IN 222 EX 230 IN .480 EX .496 110 DEGREES FAIR IDLE,MODERATE PERFORMANCE USAGE,GOOD MID RANGE HP,MARINE PERF.,BRACKET
RACING,AUTO TRANS W/2500 + CONVERTOR,3200-3600 CRUISE RPM,9.5-11 COMP.RATIO

Bottom line is on a little ole 350 even the smallest one above with still suffer on low end hence you really need to keep the converter up and decent. Just cause it says it will work with a stock converter just means it will drive without dying. Need good converter to be quick on anything , most small blocks are gonna not make peak torque till at least 4000 rpm or more. A blah blah 2200 is not gonna cut it. Enough said but if you do not want a 2600-3000 ish converter and have to stick tighter below 2400 you may just have to stick some little 210 110 cam in it if you just want little rumble idle and some good low end - mid range torque but limited HP up top. If you really want to run it hard and buzz it to 6000 get it on the bigger side use the Rhoads and looser converter and go with the higher CR as far as you can tolerate octane you give it.

Feel free to flame away..