71boosted

....SOOOO, i am going to be grabbing my 71 cutlass this coming weekend. its coming with the rocket 350. Still reading up as much as i can, but is the rocket anything special or is it just what they labeled the motors? it was claimed to have been rebuilt but i dont ever believe that unless the proof is there. None the less, i am making out on the deal in the trade i truly believe.

Moving on to the real heart of the question. I have searched for aftermarket shelf cranks, and finding diddly squat! is the crank strong enough to hold 400-500 bhp? dont give me the "just put a 400/455 in it" quote. I am keeping this 350, for i always thought going up, but this time i am sticking with the 350. I will purchase the h beam rods, forged pistons, preferably something outside of speed pro if i can, and get the crank machined and balanced with the goodies. can it hold that power? I am waiting back on the casting numbers from the block from the guy so i can research the motor more before i grab it.

let me know if you have an instant answer or link, preferably not responses of i think or i heard once, sorry.

380 Racer

This was my 380 build:

http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=830

jaunty75

Is the rocket anything special?!?! IS THE ROCKET ANYTHING SPECIAL?!?!

IS THE POPE CATHOLIC????


The Oldsmobile Rocket V-8 is one of the most famous engines in the history of automobiles. Introduced in 1949, it was revolutionary.

Read all about it here (you may have to join to see the article, joining is free)

http://wildaboutcarsonline.com/cgi-b...aldisplayed=50


All Oldsmobile V-8 engines starting in 1949 and going until 1990 or thereabouts were called Rocket engines. So, yes, it IS just what they labeled the motors.

71boosted

you read my post wrong. i understand the rocket is what made its name, in detail i dont know much about olds, but i know about the olds rocket! i just meant is it a seperate version of the motor or are all olds motors rockets? so is every olds 350 a rocket 350 etc?

jaunty75

I was just having fun with you!

All Olds V-8 motors are Rockets. Every Olds V-8 engine after 1949, whether it was the 303 in 1949, the 371 in 1957, the 330 in 1964, the 350, the 425, the 455, or whatever, was called a Rocket. So, yes, every Olds 350 ever made is a Rocket.

cutlassefi

I'm building a 380 (stroked and bored 350) right now for a customer. It's a mild build but if you went with Edelbrock heads or similar, the right cam etc you could make low to mid 400's. All it takes is cubic money.
Yes the stock 350 block and crank will handle your goals.

71boosted

gotcha! well i have been bouncing around and looking for parts. and kinda piecing the bottom end together for stouter performance. what 350's came with the nodular crank? can i find hbeam rods that are for the olds. i found a set but they were for a damn 455 with the 6.735(?) length and i need 6" can i substitute a different rod from a different brand to work pontiac/chevy etc.

i found some nice pistons that should be strong enough for what i want and in time could handle more if i wanted it to.

still worried on the crank. they strong, like a # of the pontiac stock cranks?

olds 307 and 403

400 sbc pistons and aftermarket rods will work. CP has stroker pistons. No aftermarket direct swap rods.

71boosted

not worried on stroking it honestly, just like beefier replacements

71boosted

do the sbc 400 pistons and rods a direct drop in, minus boring or such to fit pistons? or does the crank journals have to be machined to fit the rods? or they same as olds?

71boosted

just rods, found the pistons i want, just need to know about rods...

SBORule

That's a 380ci SBO he paid someone to build for him.

Here's a link to what he really thinks about the guy who built that 380 engine for him.

http://highperformanceolds.com/phpbb...topic.php?t=44

See your user name is 71Boosted, that could be construed a couple different ways but I'll go with you want to either turbocharge or supercharge or chemically supercharge your engine with Nitrous Oxide.

You can use a regular ole N Nodular Iron Crank in a SBO making 400-500HP no problem, in fact I have been using one in a engine I built with own two hands for the last 25 years or so.

Gas blocks are good to around the 600HP range, after that a Diesel block is the desired choice, D or DX blocks that is.

Above the 500HP point a 330 SBO Olds crank should be used, although it's much heavier than a 350 N Crank. If you are going the boosted route, stroking a 330 or 350 crank is a total waste of money.

A standard or .030" over SBC 400 piston designed to be used with a 5.7" rod is a good choice when used with a 6.200" SBC Rod. Just have to have your rod journals on your crank turned down 2.100" SBC diameter and have them put a nice radius on the journal when they widen the journals to accept the wider SBC rods for proper side clearances.

I could go on and on but I'll wait to see what direction you want to go before I write a How to Build a SB Olds topic.

71boosted

i am purchasing a 330 crank right now. whats my best bet. get sbc pistons and rods and turn the crank down to 2.100 journal size to fit those rods and pistons?

i considered boosting this one as well, but i think im just going to get a nice all motor built up with a nice cam profile and just run that! i ran boosted cars each project before and just dont want that on this one right now unfortunately but ill survive.


so the 330 crank and all motor in the 450-550 range is doable? 6.200 rods and the pistons meant for the 5.7" rods? correct? let me in on some advice as far as that goes.

380 Racer

If you read what I posted above, the 330 crank handled 600HP.

cutlassefi

Hmmm, you missed a detail or two.

71boosted-personally I'd do the 380 like me and Nick, the extra stroke is always a benefit. Have the block sonic checked, I'll bet you can go with a 4.165 bore or better, that way it still leaves 4.185 for the next rebuild if necessary.

Jmo

380 Racer

One thing not mentioned in that thread on my 380. That rotating assembly was in a gas block first. The main reason I used so many custom parts was because I got those 6.300" rods at a great price. Built the motor around the crank and rods.

71boosted

So i fould and snagged up a 330 forged crank. What needs done to it to run in the 350? Or does your build link explain that? Id prefer buying some rods and pistons off shelf to rebuild with

cutlassefi

Nothing, unless you want to stroke it as mentioned before. You will need a 330-425 flexplate or flywheel as they have a different bolt pattern.

captjim

I have one of those (flywheel) if you need it.

SBORule

I would use a N Crank for a 400-500HP combo because it's arounds 8lbs to 10lbs lighter than a 330 Forged crank is. Doesn't require a 330/400/425 flexplate and they have been proven to be robust enough to withstand 600HP no problem.

But if you got a 330 crank and you want to use in a 400-500HP small block, and you bought it from someone you don't know, first take it to a machineshop and have it magnfluxed and checked for cracks and checked for straightness. Have them mic the journals to see if it has been turned down, or machined before.

You can sometimes find out of production Aries pistons BB0 425 pistons and then you could use factory Olds rods or even SBC rods with mods to the crank and small end of the rod to fit the larger olds wrist pins in the Olds pistons.

If you went a SBC Piston and rods, you'll have to have the cranks rod journals machined down .025" to 2.100" or .125" to 2.00" diameter to get a nice radius on the journals when they are turned down and widened to accept the wider SBC rods big end.

When cutting down rod journals .125" engine builders will try and convince you off set grinding the crank to gain a little stroke is the way to go, well maybe for the machinist it is but to a guy on a budget it's not. You take a 362ci SBO and build it the same as a 378ci SBO and there won't be but maybe a few, less than five horsepower separating them.

You want to have the journals widened when you use SBC rods because if you do what CutlassEFI recommends, you will have to have the rods re-balanced and if you have to replace a rod or two in the future, you'll have to have the rod machined down on one side again and rebalanced to match the other six. Or lets say you just want to put in another set of SBC rods but this time H Beams rods instead of I beam rods, you'll have to have the rods machined again on one side, to me that doesn't make sense.

As far as the offset on the SBC rods go, it's not an issue if you get the rod journals widened on the crank, just be sure there isn't any interference between the rod and the piston where the piston pin goes through the piston.

You put in number 1 and number 2 piston and and rods on the crank in the engine and check to see if there is going to be any rod contact with the piston boss at the wrist pins, most of the time there isn't an issue but if there is, you have the boss on the pistons machined to get the needed clearance.

Sorry for not getting back here faster to answer all your questions but I'm not on here to try and make money off people selling them parts or looking for a customer to build an engine for.

Checkout any engine builder before you let them build you anything, CutlassEFI doesn't have a very good track record and 380Racer has also been taking to the cleaners letting unknown fast talkers take his money.

Good Luck

SBORule

Originally Posted by SBORule View Post:
You can use a regular ole N Nodular Iron Crank in a SBO making 400-500HP no problemGas blocks are good to around the 600HP range, after that a Diesel block is the desired choice, D or DX blocks that is.

SBORule reply to above: They make spacers for the mains so you can use a SBO 330 crank, no machining down the counterweight .300" like you would with a 400/425 crank. You won't get the added stroke but in the end the short stroke 330 crank will weigh alot less than the modified 400/425 ever could.

SBORule reply to above:Actually a N Crank has been proven to hold up well in engine making up to 600HP

Originally Posted by SBORule View Post:
A standard or .030" over SBC 400 piston designed to be used with a 5.7" rod is a good choice when used with a 6.200" SBC Rod. Just have to have your rod journals on your crank turned down 2.100" SBC diameter and have them put a nice radius on the journal when they widen the journals to accept the wider SBC rods for proper side clearances.

Posted reply by SBORule to above statement by cutlassefi.

captjim

I don't know how you can make blanket statements like this. 15 cubic inches on an engine making 1.25 hp/CI should add 20 HP. Also, adding stroke almost always adds low rpm torque. And the cost is only around $150 additional. On a build like this is $150 for another 15 HP and 10 Ft/LBS not a cost effective upgrade?

captjim

That is a cheap shot, and uncalled for, but not uncommon coming from you.

cutlassefi

X2, and thanks for the next comment as well.

SBO, so please explain my bad wrap. Because someone on here blew up a 455 with fuel that wasn't what WE all thought it was??
And where are your builds, plural? Anyone else want to chime in on my reputation? I'm here to help, plain and simple.

And why would maching the inside of the pin boss be any different than having to machine the rod if you had to replace them. That's 6 of one and a half dozen of another. At least by machining the rod you take a little of the offset out of the big end, anfd maybe don't have to machine the other end The balance should always be checked anyway, oh yeah, you probably balance your stuff first, THEN do the machine work, right.

How many of these combo builds have you done? 1, 0?
You didn't even know the cranks were undercut so you won't have an additional radius until you take it down to the 2.00 size.

If you don't know, which you don't, then don't say anything. Or you can write that SBO build up post that you threatened to do, we're all waiting. I'm sure it'll be full of real reliable info.

Thank you.

VORTECPRO

I cant comment on the specs of this build because I dont know. But SBOrule did build a 12 sec SBO and did also use it to pull his boat, I always look at what the persons car runs at a drag strip, that tells me a lot, then I look at what they have done in reality, then I consider their advice, not to say your advice is wrong EFI, because I dont know, Just trying to learn, that why IM here. Ive always been curious if the EFI overdrive trans cutlass has any drigstrip times, I would like to see them.

cutlassefi

Anything else you want to say that I can blow a hole in?

Have a nice day!!!

cutlassefi

I don't have any drigstrip times. I don't claim big hp numbers and my driver is just that, a driver. Runs great for 8 years, no issues, EFI or otherwise. Not everyone runs to the dragstrip, you gotta keep an open mind. Some guys just want a good performing, reliable driver. Plain and simple.

And by the way that pretty rich coming from you. You keep pounding your chest over your accomplishments yet every time I've asked you for timeslips, no response. All you give me is bullshyt times and speeds but no printed slip or video to back it up. The video you posted ended before the ET was shown.
I'm just sayin.

VORTECPRO

Ok, that makes sense, I watched your Accel video, that thing sure does smoke the tires though! Ill send the test over tonight.

VORTECPRO

Just about missed your edit buddy, heres the last time slip: NA Pump gas 496, iron headed GM oval port , Weight 3615-3630, here you go.

cutlassefi

I've told you a dozen times I really don't care.
And unless you can give this gentleman some sound advice on his build, I'm not sure those posts belong here.

I apologize 71boosted for getting off topic. Best of luck in your build.

VORTECPRO

Which is it, do you want the time slips or dont you, just trying to give you what you asked for.

SBORule

CutlassEFI your argument/reply is weak and as far as you blowing holes in anything else I want to say, I think your engines do that well enough.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...e-my-luck.html

I hope people read the above link, it shows that you can't build an engine and shows that you lie to your teeth and customers. Planos never received anything from you but lip service and engine that was built poorly, plain and simple. No legit engine builder would of slapped a new set of bearings in an engine that you claimed had bearing issues and send it off to a customer.

Engine builders like you is why so many people put Chevy engines in their Oldsmobile.

I swear you must be related to Greg Godon because you act just like him because you live on message boards, looking to sell someone something or build them engine. You say you are here to help people but in reality, you are here to make money off people.

Oh yeah, I took screen shots of that topic, so don't go in there and try to delete stuff.

VORTECPRO

Ive been on this forum long enough to see whats going on here, Bruce you have been attacked and you defend yourself, I understand that, Ive been attacked also, but I do come on strong, really all of us can disagree, but getting nasty, discrediting without facts, this should stop and we should all get along, EFI, although we fight like cats and dogs, I dont think you would intentionally screw someone, I dont want to offend anyone but, this forum could use some hard core engine tech, really you should cut Bruce some slack, when I came on here he never tried to sell me anything, same with EFI, both tried to help with advice, lets just learn together, knowledge is power.

cutlassefi

Do you know the whole story? Do you know what 98RON means vs our fuel?
Did you know I sent him parts for free? Lifters, gaskets etc. Freight etc all for free. Does that sound like someone who is trying to screw someone else?
And why not cruise this site and others, EFI stuff as well, to find how much free, GOOD, ACCURATE, advice I give.

Thank you.

VORTECPRO

Your forgetting something. Engines builders can have problems, Ive had mine.

380 Racer

Sorry but you don't know Bruce at all. You would find out I don't pick on him.....I defend myself against his lies.

As far as you and I......... I didn't attack you any more than you attacked me in PMs. I thought we had called a truce.......I guess not.

VORTECPRO

Your fine with me. Actually you never tried to sell me anything either. Not that it really matters but some were, and in my world they were less than qualified to adjust the chain on my peddle car.....

11971four4two

Good luck with your olds engine build 71boosted!!!

71boosted

oh DANG! did i accidently start a fued online asking for the dirty details on building a fun 350?

NO OFFENSE to anyone, and no hard feelings to anyone using my topic as a battle ground.

So i purchased the 330 crank, taking it in to the machine shop once i purchase the 6.200" rods so they can grind down the journals to the chevy rods and widen them for the increased width of the rods, CORRECT??

ill be buying std sbc 400 forged pistons, so when it comes time for the motor to go together the block can be bored and ran with those and the rest of the bottom end.

...then convert over to a 330-425 flexplate. i think i got the jist of the bottom end stroker build, if wrong please adjust the little bit i have wrong. I tried to skip over alot of the arguments for i dont want to get tied up in that, again no offense.

captjim

Just make sure you get the correct p/h and dish. If you are not stroking it, then with the 6.2" rod you need a 1.425 p/h. Dish will be determined by the desired compression ratio.