Olds1971

So next few questions. When I pull the 3.8 v6 tomorow. Is there anything I need to keep? I wanna just rip everything out from under the hood but is there some things I need? I know like your lights, and stuff but there is a huge bundle of wire im assuming is computer that will no longer be there. What do I keep out of everything. Keep in mind I want to have heat in my car. And one day Ill put air conditioning back in but for the moments im not.

Intragration

Save the trans lines, you'll need them. You may also want to save the 90 degree rubber line that goes between the fuel line and the pump, it came in handy for me. I'd suggest disconnecting all the wires from the engine and leaving them there for the time being. Once it's out, you can sort through them and remove what you don't need. You might want to mark the connectors for things that you're going to need for easy ID. You could also re-use the sending units for your dash, I think they'll fit. I didn't need AC or cruise control, so there was nothing I needed from the passenger side harness and I removed it. You will still need the blower high wire, which comes from the blower relay and heads through a connecter and over to the starter. I'm not sure exactly what this looks like on the factory wiring, mine was butchered and I had to make a new one. You can either disconnect the power steering pump from the motor, leave it in the engine compartment and bolt it onto the new motor, saving yourself a slight mess, or you can remove it altogether and use one that's on the new motor if you already have one. If this is the case, there's a good chance you're going to need the pressure side fitting off the pump that's on the car, it matches the hose that's on the car. My general suggestion is to take lots and lots of pictures before you start, and then don't throw ANYTHING away until you've got the swap 100% completed.

Olds1971

Im going to take TONS of pictures. I just really dont wanna mess anything up this car had lots of stuff but I want it down to the basics. heat, a/c sometime, and things like that. I dont need.. cruise control, dumby lights. ect. Is the headlights and stuff around that nature on a completely different harness?

Olds1971

I want the engine bay as clean cut as possible. no wires showing just extremely clean. Any sujestions. How could I find what wires I absolutly need

Intragration

I'm not familiar with the AC, I removed it from mine. I believe the compressor needs something from the computer, but I'm not sure what. Possibly the clutch to cut it out at WOT? I'll take a look at the wiring diagrams, but I think you're going to have to find that out somewhere else. Do a search, someone else may have dealt with it.

Once you figure out that situation, you may be able to ditch the rest of the computer harness on the passenger side, which will greatly clear up your engine compartment. You need most of the wires from the engine harness on the driver's side. I would highly recommend going with either idiot lights or gauges, as I said before, so you know what's going on. It would be a shame to put all this work into it and then blow the motor when you could have prevented it.

Headlights and horns are on a separate harness, you won't need to deal with them during the engine swap process.

I don't know if I showed you, this is mine shortly after I finished the swap. I didn't completely hide any wires, just routed them as close to how the factory would have. This was before I put the sending units in for the gauges.

Olds1971

That used to have a 3.8 right? And how does the belts run for everything what goes to what do you have any pictures? Also Ill be getting gauges there alot more functional and I like the idea of knowning whats actually going on not just a light coming on lol

Olds1971

If I for some reason stick to points is it a huge pain?? Like better def get HEI

Intragration

I'm not opposed to points, it's just a bit more wiring and you still need a resistor and a dwell meter. Not a big deal if this is the way you go, HEI would just be easier in your case if you can find the distributor.

Gauges are good, much better than idiot lights, but idiot lights are better than nothing.

Yes, mine used to be a 3.8. Thankfully, the previous owner saved me the trouble of yanking and disposing of it. Here's the belt routing, yours may be different. Here's another diagram I had for later motors, I don't know if these will help you.

Olds1971

Yeah the first picture is what I have. The belts I got are wrong then because they def wont reach with the alt all the way down. After I get this 350 in. Is there going to be a huge increase in power from my 3.8 to this? I keep thinking im going to punch the gas and it be the same lol

Intragration

Ha ha you're barely going to be able to tell the difference between the 3.8 and the 350. Then when you start the 350...you will know. Keep in mind, this is ONLY true if you get the 350 tuned properly. You have to get this right, or you'll be leaving a ton of potential on the table. I believe the Moroso points recurve kit is 72310, and the HEI is 72300, you're going to need the appropriate one for whichever distributor you go with. I got mine at O'Reilly. You will also need to limit the vacuum advance. Here's a picture of the part I made to do this. This was for HEI, yours may be slightly different, but the concept is the same. That small tab that points down goes between the rod and the bracket and limits the travel of the vacuum advance rod. You'll also need to set the dwell properly if you go points. It's easy to do, but if it's wrong, the 350 will feel like the 3.8 or worse. My 455 was ok at first, but I was only getting 20 degrees of total advance. Then I recurved the distributor and it was much better. Then I got the 3.42s, and WOW!

If the 350 has the original brackets, then you just need to ask for belts from the car the 350 originally came in. I THINK the AC belt(s) are separate, but someone who knows AC 350s would know better. My setup was originally AC and I just skipped that belt.

olds 307 and 403

Does that belt setup has two belts for the power steering? I noticed a big difference from a 307 to 403.

Olds1971

I just dont want to drop this motor in and then it be the exact same thatd be hard work for absoultly nothing lol. I will prolly be going with HEI I keep thinking about it and I would love to keep this plug n play. Also I dont get the whole vaccum advanced thing.... I started pulling the 3.8 today kinda hard with a lil car tire jack and some tools but im getting there. Drive shaft is unbolted, radiator is out. everything is unplugged electric wise. Left I have mounts, trans mounts, speedo cable and linkage correct? Also my clutch fan from the 3.8 fit my 350 PERFECTLY.

Olds1971

Im also skipping the AC belt im taking it out of the car. Also I have two wires running down to the trandmission do I need them or is this more dumby lights? Also how do you adjust the power steering belt?

Intragration

You DO have an engine hoist, right? You're not planning to do the swap with a tire jack I hope ha ha? And make sure if you're jacking it and getting underneath that you have the wheels on the ground chocked so it can't roll and the lifted side secured, either with ramps or blocks under the wheels and/or jack stands.

The wires to the transmission are most likely for the lock-up, and I'm guessing it's a 200 or 200-4R. This is going to be another issue with the computer, I don't have a lot of information on it. Start looking up torque converter lock-up without a computer. I think there are guys who have a toggle switch wired in to actuate lock-up without a computer. You're going to have to consider some things with the transmission though, the 200s will PHYSICALLY work in your setup, but they're not going to hold up very well in stock configuration. Have you thought about going with a TH350? We can talk about it more later on, I have to run out now. I'll write more about recurving and vacuum advance later.

On the PS belt, there's a hidden bolt behind the pulley that you need to loosen in order to swing the pump and adjust the belt. There should be holes in the pulley that give you access to it.

Olds1971

I know this is hard to believe but I have a BOP TH350 already in mine stock it got rebuilt prolly 2 years ago with a shift kit and extra clutch packs. LOL and I pulled the motor in my 71 cutlass s but it was me being a 18 yr olds kid and just started ripping it out not caring what I was doing. I do have a hoist haha just wish I had a real jack. I have tire blocks and stands. I do have three holes on my pulley so ill have to look this could be my problem why no belt fits LOL. So far everything is undone now besides, linkage which I cant figure out how to unhook and cutting my exhaust which my trusty sawzaa ill fix right up.. Also my U-bolts are unbolts but cant get the drive shaft to drop. I unbolted both sides. Is it just that rusted on? Thanks for your check ups you have helped me out so much with this.

Olds1971

Anyway I can check what my trans is just making sure the transmisson shop wasnt blowing smoke at me?

Olds1971

Its ok just to cut all my A/C stuff out right??

Intragration

You're welcome, it's fun, can't wait until you get it running. Great on the TH350. That's what's on the car now? Or what is with the 350 motor? If the car has wires going to the transmission and you're using a TH350 that was in the '71 that doesn't have wires, then you can just ditch the wires. Which linkage are you having problems with? Transmission? That should just be a cotter pin and a washer. You may need the U shaped selector bracket on the old trans, I had to use the one from the transmission that came with the car when I swapped in the new trans. The geometry wasn't right otherwise. With the driveshaft, you may need to coax it forward, sort of prying on the two sides of the U-joint that are now free to get it to budge. You need to get it to move forward just a little, then it will drop and you can pull it backwards and out. The caps that are exposed on the U-joint are going to want to fall off, you want to put some tape on it to hold them on so you don't lose any needle bearings. On AC, if you're going to use it, you may want to just disconnect the compressor and hang it to the side, so you don't open up the system. If you don't care about it, then yeah, just cut it out.

Olds1971

Sorry for the confusion lol My trans stock in my 83 was a th350 im almost 99.8 percent sure. and yeah I seen the cotter pin tommorow ill take it out then for the linkage. I want all my air conditioning out but keep the box like you did was that a big hassel?

I will update I looked at the trans after pulling it from the motor. It is indeed a BOP TH350!!!!!

Olds1971

OUT WITH THE OLDS!!! haha the 3.8 is finally out upcoming more pictures soon!!!

olds 307 and 403

Is it the regular or lock up TH350? I thought most came stock with the TH 250C? I could only find BOP TH250C locally, I fried my TH250C quickly. I went back to the TH2004r, didn't want to cruise around at 3000 rpm.

Intragration

That's great if it's really a TH350. It has 13 pan bolts, right? Keeping the AC box was no big deal. I replaced the heater core while I had the engine out and also pulled out the AC evaporator and made a block-off plate where the tubes normally come out. It was a little bit of a tight fit, but my valve covers sit a bit higher than yours will.

And that 3.8 is a BUICK, so it's OUT with the BUICK, and IN with the OLDS...

Olds1971

Lock up th350

Olds1971

And yes sorry correction out with the buick:P soon in with the olds!!!

Olds1971

So been asking about this recurve it NOBODY around here knows what it even is or anything lol

olds 307 and 403

3.23 or 3.42's will go really well with that. I have a 2500 stall convertor, you can have it for shipping cost.

Intragration

Recurving the distributor? It means you optimize the distributor so you get max timing without detonation. Without doing it, you aren't getting the full potential of your motor. I'll give you a detailed description tomorrow.

Olds1971

PM me price to get to mattoon,il... Is a 2500 stall aftermarket? What exactly does that do? and soon im getting gears not just yet though.

Olds1971

I will be painting everything under hood tomorow.. I cant wait to find out about this recurve hopefully its not to hard to do.. Can any motor do this or is this just an olds thing.. Also when going through the wires pretty much anything thats not the distributor,alt,starter I can cut off from the computer? Also if I take everything out on the left dealing with air and undo all the plugs Ill still have heat correct?

Olds1971

I know that a stall is like Engaging the wheels at a higher RPM allows the engine to get deeper into its power-band before taking on a load, increasing your acceleration. Would I still need the lock up wires hooked up with that stall?

Intragration

The high-stall converter causes the engine to rev up past low RPMs to where torque is higher to improve performance. It's a good deal, but if it's not a lock-up converter, you'll lose that functionality if you had hoped to keep it. I don't have a lock-up converter, it's not a big deal for me. If you're going with a non-lock-up converter, you wont need the trans wires. You could leave them in place for the future if you want, it won't hurt anything. With factory gears, the higher stall converter should help you quite a bit, and it will continue to help if and when you switch to new gears.

Don't cut anything from the driver side harness just yet. That's the engine and dash harness, you can worry about cleaning that up later. On the large passenger side harness, that's for the computer. As long as you're ok with ditching all computer functionality or wiring up things separately, you can remove the whole harness. The way I did it was to cut all the wires close to the firewall on the engine side, and then from the inside of the firewall, I pulled the whole harness through, disconnected it, removed it and plugged the grommet. This is the cleanest way to do it. The computer harness doesn't have anything to do with heat, you'll still have that.

What kind of distributor are you getting? Aftermarket, or a factory HEI? If you're getting aftermarket, it may already be set up. If it's factory, you will need a recurve kit, I recommend Moroso part number 72300. This includes weights, a centerplate and springs for inside the distributor. The whole point is to allow you to have approximately 34 degrees of total advance at 3,000 RPM. The faster the engine is spinning, the sooner the spark needs to happen to light the fuel-air mixture in order to have it burn efficiently and create maximum power. Generally, recurving is something that all non-computerized cars require if you want maximum power. The amount of advance has more to do with the efficiency of the heads, and for Oldsmobile in particular, about 34 degrees is what is needed. You could install the recurve kit now, or you could wait until the engine is in and running. You're going to need either a dial-back timing light or to mark the balancer with additional marks or a timing tape. The stock indicator probably only goes up to about 12 degrees.

I don't remember, have you already created a fuel line extension? This is definitely the time to do it, it will be harder to do once the new motor is in.

Olds1971

Ill post pictures of my harnesses so you can tell me which to cut out I dont wanna run into that mess of cutting the wrong one. As far as the lock up either or is fine with me. How do you find out if the aftermarket distributor is recurved or not? For the fuel line are you talking about like you did running along the bottom of the frame? I havent but im def going to before the new motor is in. Also how did you get your a/c box and stuff that black? repaint?

Olds1971

Here are some pictures for today... Im cutting everything from the passenger side besides what I have labeled. I had cut stuff from the drivers side that was attached to motor I hope those were the idiot lights. I didnt cut them all just the ones from motor it wasnt ment to be cut I had ahold of the wrong ones....... I hope this doesnt spell disaster. Also I cut out the air instead of unbolting. My great grandmother always had the car zbarted and it covered some of the air box. Which is now almost perminate.



Dont mind all the wires right besides the fender Im putting those in a wire loom. I have about 4 grand of lights on this car lol I know what they go to.

Olds1971

Last couple pictures

Intragration

A new distributor would give some kind of timing specs, you'd know from that. No matter what you use, you're going to need to check it and set it up if necessary, so for the time being, it's not something you really need to worry about until it's running.

The fuel line across the crossmember is what I was talking about. All I used on my firewall was Windex and 303. I did use POR15 on the crossmember, and Krylon on the core support.

Ok, the big beefy harness that comes out from under the AC box, that should be the computer harness only. I'd pull all those wires towards the center of the engine compartment and make sure they're not hooked into anything, and if not, and again if you're ready to say goodbye to the computer, cut that close to the firewall, and then find it on the inside and pull it through. 75 years from now, the guy who's restoring this car to the CCC 3.8 will curse you.

If you're running without that cruise control box on the driver's side wheel well, you're probably going to need a new speedometer cable. I left the box there because I wasn't ready at the time to get a new cable. Other things you might consider pulling are that big silver cylinder on the passenger side, the vacuum ball next to it, the charcoal canister, and the AC condenser in front of the radiator. All the wires on the driver's side leave alone for now, not a huge deal if you cut them already, and any charging or battery related wires on the passenger side can probably be taken out, you're going to want to run the battery on the driver's side. I'm saying, if they're just sitting there, remove them, but don't cut anything there just yet. If they come around from the driver's side, wrap wrap them up and leave them sitting on the driver's side.

Olds1971

Well I still have the cruise control box and cables should I hook them back up? The cruise was never hooked up or anything ran to it besides those two cable looking things. It didnt even ever have power.. Do you use your charcole canister? I dont think that was ever hooked up to the carb either lol.... On the passenger side the wires that I have labeled are from dis, and alt. I wasnt goign to cut those... When I drop this motor in I really hope your gonna tell me how to run these wires haha. If you ever stop coming on here during this process ill be sunk

Olds1971

ALL painted up just need to sort wires now. Also how important is it that the frame mounts need changed from the 3.8 to a v8 I was just curious

Intragration

Nah, you'd figure it out. You'd have to. I'd put the CC box back in until you can get a new full-length cable. Without it or a cable, you won't have a speedometer. It doesn't need to be hooked up to anything else, the gears inside will still turn. I don't have the charcoal canister or anything emissions-related except for the PCV. The frame mounts, sorry, if you want to put an Olds V8 in there, you need to change them. It's not that hard, it took me a couple hours. You'll want a long open-end wrench and a couple 3/8" drive extensions and U-joints and you can get them out. You could cut them out too, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Olds1971

Ok Ill leave the canister off then. And Ill hook that CC back up . So even if your trans mission has a speedo cable going to it you still need those two hooked up?

Olds1971

After Paint