Suddog

Hello,

I am new to the Classic Oldsmobile site. I bought the F-85 Cutlass with the intention to rebuild/restore it. Boy did I pick the wrong year to do. Well now I am stuck with it. I have the original aluminum engine and transmission for the car. I did research on the rebuild kit...$1600! I am thinking of scrapping the engine and tranny for a Chevy 327 and TH400. Does anybody here have any ideas on my swap or should I just rebuild the 215?

Any and all help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Brian

csstrux

If i remember right that is a very cool looking buggy, congrats on the find. I think you should sell it to me right now. Seriously, olds engines are not as common as the sbc, so they are going to cost more. most people here will suggest you stay with an olds engine, myself included. But that is just us. You own the car and have to live with the decisions you make. Do what makes you happy. I might look int a 350, or a 403 possably, but am not really familiar with the car, and don't know what is feasable or economical.

joe_padavano

Brian,

The Chebby motor (or a later Olds for that matter) is far from a bolt-in. You'll easily spend more in fabrication costs. On the other hand, the aluminum 215 was sold to Rover in the 1960s and grew to 3.9 and 4.6 liters. Score a used engine from a 90s Land Rover. They even have EFI. It's a much easier swap.

Suddog

Joe

What kind of transmission would be needed for the swap?

64Rocket

If you find the Rover engine use the auto trans that goes with it. You will still have to do some fab work. But will be worth it.
Gene

joe_padavano

You can also get a manual trans. D&D Fabrications in Michigan specializes in the aluminum 215 and the associated Rover engines and sells trans adapters to mate a modern GM automatic.

csstrux

I was kind of thinking that there might be issues in an engine swap on this unit. Is it related to the nova, or is it a stand alone like the small Pontiac of this era? I cant remember what they called it. Only that it had a trans axle in the tail and a solid, flexible bar for a drive shaft.

gearheads78

Its like the Buick and Pontiac of the era. ChevyII was its own car of similar size.
These guys have built a lot of those cars. You might check out some pics for inspiration.
http://www.stokedoutspecialties.com/

csstrux

Thanks Gearhead, that site is cool, I'm surprised how contemporary the little cars look with just minor mods and paint. I wonder if a guy could find one of those reasonably priced, not that I am in a position to do anything right now. It really fuels the fire of the imagination though

joe_padavano

The 61-63 F-85, Tempest, and Special are actually built on the Corvair architecture. The Tempest, with it's "rope drive" actually uses the Corvair transaxle with a front-mounted engine. The Tempest actually used a 195 cu in slant four which was half of a Pontiac 389. In 1963 the Tempest actually used the iron 326 Pontiac motor.

This is not the only time that GM built wildly different cars on the same platform. The 1966 Toro and the Riviera were both E-body cars (as was the 67 Eldo), but the Riv was front engine/RWD and the Toro was front engine/FWD. As I've said before, using a Riv frame and floorpan under a 66-67 Toro is yet another car I need to build before I die...

gearheads78

I learned something new today. Never thought about the Corvair connection.

Get going on the Toro. I want to see it

csstrux

Let me know when you are ready for that toro project I'll get a second and we'll build twins...In my deams...as real as they may seem. Seriously, that would be a killer project

Suddog

Ok so I steered away from the 327/400. Now the next question, will a later olds engine bolt into the 63? My motor mounts are welded directly to the bottom of the crossmember. Any thoughts on a direct engine/transmission swap (minus the Rover)?

Oldsguy

I have always wished that I had kept my little f85 and re-built the aluminum engine it had. If I still had it I would, price of parts not withstanding. Therefore, I recommend you do the same, you will be glad you did in the long run.

csstrux

Got a welder? Seriously after being introduced to its architecture, that is going to be a lot of fab work. I Imagine a lot of fun, but also a lot of hair pulling bloody knuckles, and headaches. I would decide on what I wanted and then do some measuring to figure out if it was feasible, with my budget, and time constraints, but I talk big and move very slow on my own stuff. The point is Anything is possible. The question is how skilled are you, and how big are your pockets. You may also want to consider how much time you want to devote to this project, and what your goals are regarding it. Once you have those questions answered, options should clarify all on their own. The rover engine is the easier option, and in the long run probably the least expensive. IMO a really cool idea too. any other is going to involve cutting the car, and the money, vs skill, vs time question kicks in. What makes you happy?

citcapp

Ok so I might be sachrilegious here, but I believe there is another way. Way back when I was into jeeps real heavy and a friend of mine had a small buick with the same alumimum V8. He decided to put the Alumimum V8 in his jeep which turned out great. Now he had this buick with no engine. So he put a buick nail head 300 something cubic inches in the old buick told me it was a bolt in because on the narrow V pattern of the buick engine. I believe the buick was a 62 should share the same frame as the olds.

Just a thought

joe_padavano

Again, no. Also, a cast iron Olds V8 weighs more than twice as much as the aluminum 215 (320 lbs vs. 650+).

Oldsguy

Sacrilege! Sacrilege! Get the torches men!

J-(Chicago)

We just pulled an aluminum 215 out of a 61 buick special, and put in a 72 buick 350.
We're going to have it at the Cordova race Oct. 11th if anyone is going.
It'll probably be a dog, but cool nonetheless.

csstrux

Cordova? Is that the town or the track? how do you get to it? and how much to get in? got kids too.

Suddog

csstrux Thanks for replying. This car is a project, and I do have a welder. I am trying to weigh options. I am asking you guys, cause you all know far more Olds stuff than I do. The aluminum engine doesn't seem to need a bunch of machine work as of right now. No scoring on the cylinder walls, no spun bearings. Cam looks like it has about 105K miles on it.
Will I be required to install hardened valve seats in the aluminum heads due to lack of leaded gas?

The budget is small but workable.

I have the ambition to create anything. Work smarter not harder is always my modo. I would like to get the car running for the least amount possible. Cars are worth far more running then in pieces!