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I finally had a chance to tear down, the supposedly rebuilt 455 that came with my 442.
It was a dissapointing day. I was told #1 was sleeved, and it was 30 over. What I found was #3,#2, and #4 had rust in the 30 over bore.
So, the question is do you go 60 over with the sleeve if the rest of the block is ok to maintain the #matching or do I go with the 69 455 block I have that has had no work done to it to rebuild?
I plan on driving it and enjoying it, and want it to be dependable.
I would prefer to keep it numbers matching. However, dependablity is first priority. So, that is the big question. The sleeve makes me a little nervous, plus going 60 on top of it. I can always put it in a bag in the corner of my garage.
Sleeves end up being thicker and stronger than the other cylinders often. No worries and is 040 not an option ? 060 should be ok too but just run a new style aluminum radiator with AC shroud and factory clutch fan (new clutch) should be fine.
its rare to find a 60-70s muscle car with its orig motor...
how far????...all the way to 8 sleeves...if thats what it took...the whole sleeving game has changed and the equipment used to make it happen has too...theres all kinds of metallurgy improvements and benifits..
ive sleeved 1 bore..3 bores and 2 side by side..when i brought up the concerns about sleeves..my machinist just laffed..its a whole new world..
Took it to the machine shop today. His initial thought is it will need to go 60 over to get the rust, but thought it was saveable. It will be a couple of weeks before they get to it to check it all out. Now the wait begins.
I would not be to worried about it. As long as the machine shop is a good one you will be fine. I would not even worry if it had to have 8 sleeves as long as they know what they are doing. I completely understand about the dependability factor. I spent much more time and money on my entire car than needed for this very reason. When my car was done, my problems were minimal.
Actually, had a great conversation with Mark today about the roller valve train, and the build in general. The machine shop (did a 350 Orange motor for me a few years ago that went into an 85 Chevy Silverado I had at the time) is really the best in the area, great reputation. Very well known for circle track and bracket racing in the area. Doesn't do a lot of Olds motors, but has done them. He was very receptive to the idea of using Marks valve train combo and some notes on the build that Mark and I discussed. He said he thought the sleeve was put in descent, and that made me feel better. He is going to sonic check the block as part of the process.
Sorry to hear about the motor. I was a little concerned when I looked at the car and he said he only spent 1K for a total rebuild. As for sleeving, I threw a rod on my 70 442 convertible years ago. When the machine shop checked the block they recommended I sleeve the entire motor, as it had rust on 3 of the cylinders. I ended up have it bored and sleeved, and used forged flat top pistons. I never had a problem with the motor even with the bigger cam I was using. How did the body work come out on the car? Did you just repair the wheel openings or replace the quarters?
Sorry to hear about the motor. I was a little concerned when I looked at the car and he said he only spent 1K for a total rebuild. As for sleeving, I threw a rod on my 70 442 convertible years ago. When the machine shop checked the block they recommended I sleeve the entire motor, as it had rust on 3 of the cylinders. I ended up have it bored and sleeved, and used forged flat top pistons. I never had a problem with the motor even with the bigger cam I was using. How did the body work come out on the car? Did you just repair the wheel openings or replace the quarters?
JD
Yes, the 1k total and not a lot of answers had me concerned, and that is why I tore it apart. Glad I did. I do not know if it would have made it past break in the way it was put together.
I believe the engine can be saved, but I am still waiting to hear on the clean up and sonic checking. The Machine Shop was backed up when I took it, most likely will be a couple of weeks before I hear anything.
Todays sleeve technology is pretty advanced. Remember all these high tech aluminum motors have sleeves. I have heard but i dont know, that some nascar motors use sleeved motors because the sleeves are better metal than what came from the factory. Again I dont know if this is true, just what i had heard somewhere.
To start with, the block is good and is going 0.060 over.
E heads... not so much. Magnafluxed ok, but needs everything, valve guides, seats, etc.. In short, I would be approaching the costs of aluminum by the time I had them set up for roller rockers.
After many conversations with Mark, and I will reiterate what has been said here 1,000 times, Great Guy-Asset to the Olds Community x100, I have decided what the build will be.
Quick Fuel 830 carb
Elderbrock Performer
Pro Comp heads (Mark)
Roller Rockers (Mark)
Roller Cam and Lifters (Mark)
and Custom pistons (Mark)
Stock exhaust manifolds. (I know, leaving power on the table, but don't want to mess with headers.)
Should be around 10.25:1, 450 horse, and a lot of fun
I will give you more details as the build progresses.
Well haven't posted for a while on this one as it has been one delay after another.
The latest is that Eagle connecting rods have gone MIA. The short story is that they are on "back order". Depends on who you talk to if Eagle may or may not be making them any more. I called Eagle, and the guy told me yes should be in in around three to four weeks. However, I have had more than one supplier tell me, that their Eagle rep is saying no, not producing anymore.
Evidently, there is a failure to communicate somewhere.
At any rate, as I called around and kept getting a no we don't have them, and don't know for sure when we are going to get them. I did find and just order a set of Scat rods, as they are now producing the Oldsmobile rod. I will post pictures when I receive them.
Well I didn't quite make it before year end, like I wanted to have the 455 up and running. This has been a long ordeal, and more than I anticipated. While I knew building an Olds I would run into parts trouble, I never expected some of the problems I have run into. Some parts are in limited supply. As I already stated, Eagle Rods MIA, harmonic balancer, out of stock, and recently a limited supply of fuel pumps. I know some of this could have been avoided by staying closer to stock; but this is the engine I always wanted to build for 30 years now.
Waiting on Dyno day, which should be in the next couple of weeks. Until then here are the pics.
Thanks Adam, I hope the family is still doing well.
I am very excited to hear it run on the Dyno. It's was built to be a exilirating street driver. 😉 Although, it will be at least another year before I can actually drive her🙄.
Sourcing the right parts is such a pain. Looks like you are on the verge of making it a reality. Keep those Saturday morning pics. coming. It pumps me up for my Saturday morning cleaning chores.
Honestly, more than I wanted. I budgeted $7k, but probably will be closer to $8k. I wasn't able to use a couple of parts I had. The MSD distributor, is another example, I had one out of a 403, but it had a worn gear the machine shop didn't like. Had trouble finding a gear for it. Ended up with a new one. Saved money on some other processes; so I guess it is all balancing out. At least that is what I keep telling myself.🙂
Wow, engine looks great!!! Good luck on the dyno, should be a sweet runner. What pistons and cam specs did you end up with? It's crazy how long it takes for some stuff, but it should all be worth it in the end.
It wouldn't surprise me, if white smoke would "occasionally" would come from both rear sides of the car. 😎
Another thing I want to gather from the Dyno is where the power is coming in the best and choose between a 2500 or a 2800 stall converter. I really don't have a good reference here from my experience and I figure the more info I have the better choice I will make.
You'll probably find that the dyno won't want to pull that low and be stable. It's also hard on the engine at low RPM/high load. Converter comes down to tire choice... on street radials/reproduction bias plies, you'll want the 2500. If you are going to run drag radials or slicks at the track, probably 2800-3200. I'll bet you'll have >500 lb-ft of torque at 3000 rpm on the dyno. A lot of converter manufacturers will be on the loose side because they aren't used to BBO torque, so make sure you find someone reputable. I'd say Continental, but they just closed down.
You'll probably find that the dyno won't want to pull that low and be stable. It's also hard on the engine at low RPM/high load. Converter comes down to tire choice... on street radials/reproduction bias plies, you'll want the 2500. If you are going to run drag radials or slicks at the track, probably 2800-3200. I'll bet you'll have >500 lb-ft of torque at 3000 rpm on the dyno. A lot of converter manufacturers will be on the loose side because they aren't used to BBO torque, so make sure you find someone reputable. I'd say Continental, but they just closed down.
I guess I was thinking the converter manufacturer could tell a
little more and make a better recommendation with the Dyno sheet, even though the sheet will be above 3000 rpm.
Definately, 500+trq, street radials. I was thinking about a Hughes converter.
March 8th, 2016, 05:35 PM
