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That Ferrari is no longer a car, it is a piece of art. No way you drive a car worth $25 million. That would be like hanging a Picasso in your garage. For anybody that can afford a $25 million car, I guess $1.25 million is chump change. Not for most of us though.
You think these prices are high. I just saw that Super Bowl tickets are averaging almost $6,500. That is the average. There must be a lot of people in this country that have money they are mad at. Maybe the country is going crazy.
Chances are anyone who's paying 2-300K for a resto mod or a restored vehicle is going to put it in a climate controlled metal barn and keep it there until they get tired of looking at it or bragging about it. The only time it will be driven is when it gets put away after purchase and taken out to be sold. They probably put more mileage on it at BJ. These people don't care about cars, it's like us buying 1:18 scales and putting them on a shelf only we have an understanding of what the real one is.
How much money is "Big Business" making off original high end parts??? None? It's usually guys on sites like this and a lot of the times way to arrogant to deal with. So now look at the other end, courteous people who's job it is to convince you to use there parts and could care less what you do once they have your money. Much more people selling the later, who do you think is going to dictate the market. Not the guy selling the W part that you can't see but wants way more than it's worth, but the corporations backing the manufactures, that's who. It's about selling by the thousands and then some can use the proffits to buy the 300K car.
Most people don't know the difference between a 67' 442 and a 70' Roadrunner, do you think they care about all the #'s matching parts and cross referencing to get a car that high up on the bar? Do you think they have the time or patience to get it there? Heck no, this is an "I want it now" society and they want something that screams at them with the modern safety features. How many of us have converted our cars to front or even all around disk to be able to stop quicker? Well, that would be a resto mod.
Like it or not, people like us are a very small minority and a dying breed. There's an old saying "money talks and BS walks"
Instead of ruining an old car forever, these are just a couple of options for those who want the old look with all of the modern technology, comfort, and safety:
Not sure if this is too relevant, But i have a Barrett-Jackson story.
Bought a 71 cutlass "blue" and a 70 cutlass w 71 nose, orig column shift "maroon" 2 years ago when i moved to Tucson.
The 71 was bought on ebay for $7800 out of Wisconsin "rusty underneath" some of you know the seller. "bob"
The 70 was bought out of San Jose cali for 8-9k i forget but under 10k
The 71 i put cragars on it nothing else. sold it to a guy locally for a $200 loss.
He detailed engine trunk, redid front seats.
The car resurfaced at Barret Jackson the following Jan, The car did $22k. https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...LASS-S--189988
Its amazing what a little money and alcohol will make you do.
Now the 70 i had painted the Ram air hood and side of the car for $900 and a little this and that i did front springs "used" because i wanted to retain the stock height. I sold it to the same guy for a couple hundred profit that's it, check out what it did at the auction. he maybe detailed the trunk but not much else. https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...UTLASS--189989
I also sold him a 1966 impala convert for $14,500 i redid the interior to stock black. check out the hideous red velour it had when i bought it. The car was already painted look like in someones back yard had stuff in the paint here and there not too bad from 3-4 feet. see pics.
the car did a whooping $32k at the vegas auction. 35k with fee's https://www.barrett-jackson.com/Even...ERTIBLE-199230
I think it's a gamble bringing cars there no guarantee what you will get. but i assure you those cars were no way near what those bidders paid.
Last edited by JOHNNYOLDS442; February 2nd, 2018 at 05:08 AM.
The BJ cars I have seen in person have been very disappointing I expected a certain level of quality and workmanship.
The term frame off and rotisserie restoration are not a guaranty of quality workmanship or the skill set of a master bodyman, painter, mechanic. This is not even taking into account the quality of parts or the correctness of parts and fasteners.
I'm sure their are many great cars that roll across the stage, its just the ones I seen were
way over priced and required major work to make them road worthy.
I don't mind the new muscle cars its just that my hart is not in them.
If I bought a new style muscle car, I would buy a black on black 2005 to 2009 Mustang GT/Cobra etc..
Last edited by Bernhard; February 3rd, 2018 at 12:49 PM.
Almost every major collector car auction house has increased both the numbers of auctions/venues as well as the number of cars at their auctions. Thus it is getting very difficult to fill the allocated slots with good cars. However there are some very nice and unique cars to be found from time to time.
Exactly. Sometimes they show up, but as noted not all cars coming through are worthy.
Worthy of what? Being sold? Being bought? Nothing says that the cars being sold at auction have to be the best of the best. We would all like to think so because the auction sites are typically where the most rare, beautiful, and expensive vehicles change hands for the highest prices. The truth is that the auctions are where the rare and beautiful cars are available to the biggest audiences. The auctions also bring out the best in buyer competition so pretty much anything that runs can be bought and sold there. I could probably detail out my Hooptie and sell it for more than it is worth if I could roll it across the stage at one of the premier auctions. Some auction sites will ONLY sell the rare and beautiful, but BJ will sell anything that rolls.
Watched a few hours of the auction Saturday. Is it me or are the crazies with a lot of money running the insane asylum? It seems the resto mod craze is totally out of control. How do you justify $2-300k+ money on something that was built to drive?
They should all be built to drive, sorry not a fan of the mindset of garage art, investment crap..
The idea of much of the cars was fast,brute power, and that is still the draw, but pointless if it is rolled into and out of a garage trailer, and never used.
I don't believe in over restoring. I also don't believe in "factory correct" restoring if it is unacceptable in quality. By this I mean that I don't need a perfectly painted body color underside of the floorpans, but I also want more than an unpainted frame with black only in the "areas that are seen." I don't need to chrome brackets that were originally left bare, but I do want to clearcoat them so they don't rust.
I do think auction cars are usually overpriced for what you get, but you should do your homework.
Resto mods are basically yesterday's street rods today, and should be registered in every state as such. With many of these resto mods upgraded with today's running gear & technology, why not just buy a new car? The whole idea of owning and working on 'old' cars is their simplicity and actually 'driving' the car.
Unlike the cars from the 20's, 30's, and 40's which were street rodded (i.e resto modded) with drivetrains, suspensions, and other parts from later years to make them more drivable on 'modern roadways' and conditions, muscle cars were purposely built by the factories to go faster and handle different conditions, and are still very much drivable on any road or condition even 40-50 years later without major changes or upgrades.
I would disagree.
Most 60s and early 70s muscle cars, in their factory form, cannot be driven without major changes or upgrades. I can list a whole slew of things but let's start with the valve seats that need to be changed due to leaded gas being no longer available. How about externally regulated alternators? Most guys have switched to internal regulation. How about points ignition systems? Junk. Most switched to high-voltage distributors with ignition boxes. Cork gaskets on engines? Junk. Most now use hybrid rubber/steel or use Grey RTV to seal engines. How about how the factory ran the power through the headlight switch instead of using a relay and blown fuses and overheated wires when driving at night. How reliable and safe was that? Most people now install relays or LED's. Highway speeds were 55mph back in the 60's and 70's. Now they are 65-75mph depending where you live. Without overdrive transmissions one cannot cruise 70mph with the engine screaming at some insane RPM. I can go on and on with more examples. I am not a fan of vapor lock and being stuck on the side of the road but to the pursuit, that was a factory flaw that cannot be modified.
The point is the technology advances and the muscle cars from the factory had a lot of flaws in them. Modifying them offends the pursuits but boo hoo. To be honest, I am not a fan of "purists" who get offended when people modify their muscle cars with modern parts. It's their car, they can do what they want. Most people want better reliability, power, stopping power, handling and driveability. So overdrive transmissions, fuel injection, electronics, disc brake conversions, better suspensions, etc are the way people are moving towards. Otherwise known as RestoMods. The 100% factory pure cars are disappearing and those that remain will be museum pieces, not to be driven on the roads ever again.
Companies like JEGS and Summit cater to the RestoMod audience. That's where the hobby or scene has gone to and it's not going back to the numbers matching, correct chalk marks, bias ply tire, scene. Sure, there will be the few 100% factory resto's but they will only make up maybe 10% of the cars sold and bought.
Last edited by pettrix; October 6th, 2018 at 09:40 PM.
NAILED IT!!! Even the "Retro" Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, close but no cigar! They need to bring back the old designers, maybe start with clay like the old timers. This new stuff is overpriced and in the Corvettes case bordering on Hideous, compared to a 63 split window. Musclecars were throw-away cars back then. Suddenly we realized they are treasures that will never be replicated. I predict the prices will continue to soar.
NAILED IT!!! Even the "Retro" Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, close but no cigar! They need to bring back the old designers, maybe start with clay like the old timers. This new stuff is overpriced and in the Corvettes case bordering on Hideous, compared to a 63 split window. Musclecars were throw-away cars back then. Suddenly we realized they are treasures that will never be replicated. I predict the prices will continue to soar.
Prices may continue to soar for another decade or so and then plateau and start falling off when the 60-70-year-olds who are spending stupid money on them today start dying off and their children, who only see cars as appliances, start dumping them on the market for quick cash. I'm not trying to be callous and I'm not that far removed from that age demographic, myself. But that's the reality we recently faced with my late father's 1935 V-12 Lincoln. It's a beautiful one-off Brunn custom body four-door convertible that he had owned since the 1950s and which peaked in value somewhere in the 1990s when Dad was in his 60s. At that time, it would easily have brought well over $100,000. We just sold it for $80,000 and were lucky to get that, not that I'm complaining; it was still a great return on a 60-year-old investment, even adjusted for inflation. I would daresay there are not that many people out there today who even know--much less care--that Brunn was a prestigious custom coachbuilder in the early 20th century. Most people, if you ask them today would probably think it's a coffeemaker. Sad to say, but the same thing will happen with today's muscle cars as there are fewer and fewer people left who remember them from their youth.
Last edited by Human; October 6th, 2018 at 10:44 PM.
NAILED IT!!! Even the "Retro" Camaro, Mustang, Challenger, close but no cigar! They need to bring back the old designers, maybe start with clay like the old timers. This new stuff is overpriced and in the Corvettes case bordering on Hideous, compared to a 63 split window. Musclecars were throw-away cars back then. Suddenly we realized they are treasures that will never be replicated. I predict the prices will continue to soar.
Modern designs have to contend with SAFETY designs and AERODYNAMICS. Older muscle cars didn't have to contend with aerodynamics and safety, so designers were able to have more freedom. Crumple zones didn't exist. If you get into a moderate to severe accident in a muscle car, your body is going to suffer serious injuries or death.
With that being said. There were some HIDEOUS muscle cars from the 60's and 70's and mid-late 70's cars were huge boats that lacked appeal & performance for the most part.
Speaking of clay models. Mazda designers still use clay models. Hence the Kodo design. In the end, they still have to be redesigned to meet safety and aerodynamics.
Last edited by pettrix; October 7th, 2018 at 01:59 AM.
Prices may continue to soar for another decade or so and then plateau and start falling off when the 60-70-year-olds who are spending stupid money on them today start dying off and their children, who only see cars as appliances, start dumping them on the market for quick cash. Sad to say, but the same thing will happen with today's muscle cars as there are fewer and fewer people left who remember them from their youth.
Exactly!
The guys who grew up as teenagers during the muscle car era are now in their 60's and once they get into their 70's, the old muscle car craze will start to fade out as they start to fade away. It's part of life, dust to dust. Most people in their 20's today have no clue and no desire to own or drive an old muscle car. If they want speed and have the $$, they can get a new 600HP Camaro or 700HP Challenger. The new muscle cars today can outperform, out handle, out stop any old muscle car. Plus it can do it with the A/C on and get decent MPG and do it safely and reliably.
People like to romanticize the past. They try and re-imagine a past that in reality didn't exist. In 1970 the car mags tested factory muscle cars and they would run in the 15's, 14's and a few radical ones ran in the mid 13's but that was it. Sure, they were easy to modify and now with modifications they can run 12's, 11's and 10's and still be driveable on the street but it requires modifications.
Point is, this craze will die off when the old guard begins to age into their 70s and start unloading these cars. I'm in my 40's and whenever I go to a car show, I am usually the youngest guy there. Everyone else is in the 60's or early 70's. Most are nice to me but some of the older "purists" get on my case as the car has modern touches down to it like an overdrive trans, electronic fuel pump, etc.
I don't even know what a 1935 V-12 Lincoln looks like, unless I Google it.
Last edited by pettrix; October 7th, 2018 at 02:02 AM.
Most 60s and early 70s muscle cars, in their factory form, cannot be driven without major changes or upgrades. I can list a whole slew of things but let's start with the valve seats that need to be changed due to leaded gas being no longer available. How about externally regulated alternators? Most guys have switched to internal regulation. How about points ignition systems? Junk. Most switched to high-voltage distributors with ignition boxes. Cork gaskets on engines? Junk. Most now use hybrid rubber/steel or use Grey RTV to seal engines. How about how the factory ran the power through the headlight switch instead of using a relay and blown fuses and overheated wires when driving at night. How reliable and safe was that? Most people now install relays or LED's. Highway speeds were 55mph back in the 60's and 70's. Now they are 65-75mph depending where you live. Without overdrive transmissions one cannot cruise 70mph with the engine screaming at some insane RPM. I can go on and on with more examples. I am not a fan of vapor lock and being stuck on the side of the road but to the pursuit, that was a factory flaw that cannot be modified.
The point is the technology advances and the muscle cars from the factory had a lot of flaws in them. Modifying them offends the pursuits but boo hoo. To be honest, I am not a fan of "purists" who get offended when people modify their muscle cars with modern parts. It's their car, they can do what they want. Most people want better reliability, power, stopping power, handling and driveability. So overdrive transmissions, fuel injection, electronics, disc brake conversions, better suspensions, etc are the way people are moving towards. Otherwise known as RestoMods. The 100% factory pure cars are disappearing and those that remain will be museum pieces, not to be driven on the roads ever again.
Companies like JEGS and Summit cater to the RestoMod audience. That's where the hobby or scene has gone to and it's not going back to the numbers matching, correct chalk marks, bias ply tire, scene. Sure, there will be the few 100% factory resto's but they will only make up maybe 10% of the cars sold and bought.
Yes, it is your car and you can do with it as you want. And, yes, upgrading for safety and durability is a good thing if driven on the road, such as a dual master cylinder, improved wiring, hardened seat valves, and items of that nature. But when you get into changing the whole dynamics of the car, then you may want to start with a newer car or possibly purchase a Dynacorn body and start with that clean slate.
As for speed limits in the 60's & 70's being limited to 55-mph, the National Maximum Speed Limit was not until 1974. Prior to then, highway speed limits ranged from 60-mph to 75-mph. Hence why ratios like 2.56, 2.73, 3.08 were offered. Recall speaking to an owner of a '70 442 'back in the day' from Texas. He said with the factory A/C and 2.56 gears, he could cruise all day on the highways down there, and when in the city, the 442 still had plenty of pep.
While I believe the Muscle car age is peaking, I disagree with the "necessity" of having to resto mod a car. If that's how you like your car then go do it. I can't tell you how many times I've been told you should do this or that. The rack and pinion steering one has to be my all time favorite one to disagree with. It takes common sense to drive the cars of yeasteryear, something that seems laking today. But I'm sure someone back then said the same about our generation. Electronic gadgets have allowed people to relax on thinking. I drive my old car for the feel. If I want rack and pinion I'll look into a modern car. And lastly, I cruse between 70 and 75 in the mid 3000 RPM range.
Most 60s and early 70s muscle cars, in their factory form, cannot be driven without major changes or upgrades. I can list a whole slew of things...
Wow, where to begin. I have been driving my car since last century (haha) with most of the factory things you say MUST be upgraded. In my experience they do not. My car has been doing fine for the past 30 years of my ownership / daily driving with an external voltage regulator, original headlight wiring, and 3000+ highway RPM.
[QUOTE=pettrix;
Point is, this craze will die off when the old guard begins to age into their 70s and start unloading these cars. I'm in my 40's and whenever I go to a car show, I am usually the youngest guy there. Everyone else is in the 60's or early 70's. Most are nice to me but some of the older "purists" get on my case as the car has modern touches down to it like an overdrive trans, electronic fuel pump, etc.
-----------------------------
I have seen young family's with kids along with all ages at the car events I have been to. My 1976 Olds is no muscle car and far from a collector car . However, I still get thumbs up from all age groups. Teenagers give it the thumbs up as well .
I also see the early 60's to early 70's cars always having loads lookers , yeah, with their camera phones out taking pics, both young and older.
So to say the young guys will unload these cars for quick cash in time... I don't think so . The muscle car era and prices will never go away.
The 73-87 cars will be enjoyed for the most part, values will simmer with ageing owners such as myself. The money we have invested into them will never be re-couped, however they will be enjoyed by many.
That's my take on this.
Oh , and BTW , I drove my 76 safely to over 150k miles before I had to replace the U-joints and riveted ball joints. Imagine that !
That kinda blows you idea of the older cars unable to be driven without new handling, performance components.
My 76 will keep up with a Prius at highway speeds , even at 60MPH and 3000 RPM haha, I just have to stop and fill er' up a little earlier . Then , I hit the highway and catch back up to that Prius. Can you imagine?
I just got back from a week at Fall Carlisle. What a dismal turnout of both vendors and buyers. The weather was the best it's been in probably five years, but nearly the entire north field was empty of vendors. Lots of discussion among the vendors about what this means. Admittedly the last 3-4 years have seen horrible weather and crowds were down. Many vendors pulled out or at least scaled back - Inline and Right Stuff used to have multiple booths throughout the swap meet. Now each had only one. TP Tools and Totally Stainless have stopped coming. I'm sure this is partly due to very low revenue from those last few years and a return on investment calculation, but still.
More worrisome is that even the few people wandering the aisles weren't really buying much. Apparently no one is building anything any more, they just want to buy a complete car or pay someone to restore theirs. They have no interest in working with their hands. I can remember arriving at 7 AM and seeing people carrying hoods, fenders, wheels, etc out to their cars. Nobody was doing that at all this time. When younger folks were walking with older ones, they were mostly looking at their phones. Even those who are building cars want to order parts on line instead of searching through rusty, greasy parts at swap meets. I talked to vendors who lamented the downturns at Englishtown and even Charlotte. I watched the now-defunct Summer Carlisle swap meet wither and die. It will be a shame if the same happens to Fall in ten years or so.
The one thing I find interesting is that Eastwood famously stopped coming to swap meets some years ago to concentrate on mail order sales. They were back with a good-sized booth. More interestingly, they are significantly expanding their line of restoration tools and products. Who's buying this stuff and what are they doing with it?
I know this is a hot and sensitive topic. The purists don't like restomods and things get heated.
There are those that believe cars like this can be driven today on the roads and highways, safely and without modifications. More power to them. People also rode in horse and buggies but that doesn't make them a safe and efficient mode of transportation today.
The facts are the facts. Older muscle cars were not safe when compared to modern vehicles. Many safety factors were lacking in brakes, handling, steering, impact protection for the occupants, fuel system safety in rear end collisions, hard braking situations causing the fuel in the carb to stall the engine, etc.
IIHS facts show that there are fewer vehicle deaths and serious injuries with newer cars, even though there are more people and drivers on the roads today. For it's 50th anniversary, the IIHS tested an impact with a 1959 Chevy Bel Air vs a 2009 Chevy Malibu. The driver of the Bel Air would have been killed or faced serious head and bodily injury while the Malibu driver would have walked away with very minor injuries.
I know I take a risk each time I go out in my classic Olds 442. I hope and pray that I never get into an accident as I know I will face serious injuries or death. My daily driver is way more safer to drive and that's the risk I take when I occasionally take the Olds out for a drive. Just a few weeks ago a deer ran out into the road and I had to jam on the brakes. The stopping power of the classic car is seriously lacking and my daily driver would have stopped 100 feet sooner than what my Olds did. Not to mention the carb then flooded the engine on hard braking causing the engine to stall which takes away my power brakes and power steering.
I know this is a hot and sensitive topic. The purists don't like restomods and things get heated.
There are those that believe cars like this can be driven today on the roads and highways, safely and without modifications. More power to them. People also rode in horse and buggies but that doesn't make them a safe and efficient mode of transportation today.
The facts are the facts. Older muscle cars were not safe when compared to modern vehicles.
No one argues that newer cars are SAFER that older ones. You said that older cars WERE NOT SAFE, period. Even old musclecars are safer that riding a motorcycle, yet people do that too. Only you can judge what is an acceptable risk for yourself and your family. Just don't try to impose your beliefs on the rest of us.
I like stock restorations as well as a nicely done modified car. I own both types and drive whatever I want, depending on how I feel. I believe that the most important safety feature in a car is what is between your ears. Unfortunately, many drivers leave that at home, apparently.
Finally, don't kid yourself that you are smarter or a better engineer than the people who designed the car originally. I've seen far too many "upgrades" to brakes and suspension done by people who were completely clueless. Simply adding disk brakes, for example, does NOT make the car "safer". The factory engineers designed AND tested the braking system to safely stop the car under all conditions - fully loaded, empty, dry pavement, wet pavement, etc. Do you similarly select components and perform rigorous testing to verify that your modifications are, in fact, an improvement? Or do you simply trust some magazine writer with a journalism degree or some high school drop out on a tech line? Again, I'm certainly not saying that 9.5" drums on all four corners are state of the art braking, but if your "upgrades" cause premature wheel lockup, chances are you will have less control in a panic situation, not more. Don't lie to yourself.
I don't think anybody would question that new cars are safer than older cars. If you are going to be paranoid about driving your older car (muscle car of whatever) then you have a few choices which would be (1) put it in the garage and leave it, (2) get a trailer and haul it or (3) sell it. Pretty simple. I just drove my 54 to a car show about 75 miles from my house. We are talking about a car that doesn't even have ball joints or airplane type shocks on the front. I try to avoid congested traffic when I can. It does have power four wheel drum brakes and power steering. It is like driving a recliner. Your pay attention to your driving and everybody else all the time. This car has a steering column that has a shaft that comes all the way from the steering box to the steering wheel and the steering ratio is God only knows what. At the end of this month we will go on a cruise in east Texas that will probably be 250-300 miles round trip. In November we will go to a Veterans Day show in Bastrop, Texas that is 235 miles each way. The car has radial tires which have helped a lot. Would I use this car for a daily driver? Hell no. Am I afraid to drive it? Hell no. I do have concerns when I am on the road but the biggest one is somebody rear ending me and totaling my car. Am I crazy? Maybe so. But then that is just me.
Why did the conversation veer from "Most 60s and early 70s muscle cars, in their factory form, cannot be driven without major changes or upgrades" to "Older muscle cars were not safe when compared to modern vehicles."
Well I guess I'll add my .02. I like the way my 71 Cutlass drives. I like the way my 56 F100 drives. They are both different than each other and different than newer cars. The 71 is far easier to drive than the 56 of course because, after all, it is a Olds, and 15 years newer. The truck it basically little better than a enclosed tractor. I think we enjoy these old cars because of the way they drive, not in spite of it. I wouldn't take a Model T out on the expressway but I think I would enjoy driving it around a small town on a sunny day. My Cutlass I would (and do) take on the freeway. With it's 2.56 rear gear it is completely at home at 75 MPH. The truck, not so much, but it feels completely at home on a rural 2 lane highway at 55 or so. I must admit I would like a restomod type car but I couldn't justify the cost. I think the comparison between a original car and a restomod is like comparing apples to oranges.
Joe, I believe more people find better deals online. Days of past you would go to a swap meet and get some good deals. I haven't done it in 25 plus years, but I walked Carlisle many times. Drove 4-1/2 there and then back that night 4-1/2. Many times just to go and see what was there without specific parts in mind. For a while I took a hiatus from all that concentrating on performance boats. When I came back to this world things had changed quite a bit. When you hear of the money people want for certain parts it's not worth the trip. As a young buck I was told not to bother with Hersey because stuff was much older then. It was the late 80's and I was into 69' - 72' cars. I was told by a friend 25 years older than me that attends all the shows not to bother with Carlisle it's overpriced go to Hershey. My response was, I thought Hershey catered to "Old Stuff" and he replied through a grin "Son your stuff is old now". If you look online and don't like the price you move on. I'm to old to attempt to walk Carlisle in 1 day now, I couldn't do it then so I hit car shows and the internet. Saves me 2 to 3 days on the road with hotel rooms. Impulsive buying doesn't discriminate in either application. At Gettysburg I picked up some stuff as I walked away, scratched my head and asked myself why I just bought it and other items I got a deal on. And that, as Pacrat said, was a light turn out this year for parts.
As for cars being safer, I've cut many people out of cars in the New York City area over the last 21 years (more in my first 12 when I wasn't in a special unit), and there is no doubt, today's cars are designed to crumble around the occupants and absorb impact. As you Joe stated, no one is arguing this, and again as Joe and Redoldsman stated you drive these cars accordingly as we did way back when. If you are hard braking then you must realize that is not how these car were designed to be driven. Locking the brakes just makes you slide, it takes some self control and experience to brake them correctly and new cars have computers that do that for you. I can add and subtract without my cell phone but my kids have a hard time with that. We all know **** happens on the road, that's why we call them accidents, but if your car took a few hundred feet to stop then you weren't driving accordingly. You need to see what's out in the road not what's directly in front of you. I learned on these cars so I'm in the habit of looking as far as I can down the road rather than closer. Yes a deer can pop out of nowhere, but if you had a few hundred feet to brake then there should be no reason you locked your brakes unless you expect your ride to have built in "panic factor".
If you are a purist drive like a purist. If you're a mod guy, well it's your car so do what mechanically makes you more secure. When I drive a 71' Cutlass I drive it like a 71 Cutlass.
I go to Barrett and Russo Steel (Scottsdale) for fun and seldom take in the actual auctions. I treat it as a big car show where I can see some pretty cool stuff. They do write down on the sold sticker what the car went through at which often surprises me. But for me its just one big fun car show. Then I take in the Pavilion car show (at the McDonald's) on the Saturday morning. That in itself is worth the trip. You get to see some pretty rare cars on display.and many are for sale (privately too so no commission etc). Anyways its a nice way of breaking up the winter.
I go to Barrett and Russo Steel (Scottsdale) for fun and seldom take in the actual auctions. I treat it as a big car show where I can see some pretty cool stuff. They do write down on the sold sticker what the car went through at which often surprises me. But for me its just one big fun car show. Then I take in the Pavilion car show (at the McDonald's) on the Saturday morning. That in itself is worth the trip. You get to see some pretty rare cars on display.and many are for sale (privately too so no commission etc). Anyways its a nice way of breaking up the winter.
You are so right. One Saturday the wife and I were there and I pointed out that she was standing between two 1966 426 Hemi Chargers. How often do you see one of those, much less two parked side by side?
Why did the conversation veer from "Most 60s and early 70s muscle cars, in their factory form, cannot be driven without major changes or upgrades" to "Older muscle cars were not safe when compared to modern vehicles."
Two totally different subjects.
It's all intertwined, along with the restomods. It comes down to this. The people who like the styling of the muscle car vehicles and have $$ but they want better reliability, drivability and safety. Hence the restomod popularity. There's a reason restomods are more popular than concourse restorations.
Anything that can make the older cars better, is what people want and they are paying $$ for it.
Just like with GM, they viewed Oldsmobile as not viable and eliminated it from their product line. Later Pontiac shared the same fate. It comes down to consumers and what people are willing to pay for. Do people want a 100% factory correct car with its inherent flaws or a modified car that handles better, stops better, better reliability, safer and faster? Judging from what's selling now, it appears the latter is what people want.
That's where the hobby is going and it's not going back. As time marches on, OEM parts will become harder or impossible to find and aftermarket is all that will be left.
You are so right. One Saturday the wife and I were there and I pointed out that she was standing between two 1966 426 Hemi Chargers. How often do you see one of those, much less two parked side by side?
I used to take care of the cell site that covers the auction at the Scottsdale Barrett Jackson and I loved to do a site visit the day before the show. LOTS of really nice cars to look at, even before the auction began. It always amuses me to see that the older and nicely restored/maintained vehicles get more attention than the newer ones at car shows.
Pettrix, you are talking a lot of trash for someone with 60 posts, in 4 or 5 threads, all of which have to do with modifications you want to / are making to your car, who has been here for a month or two. This is CLASSIColdsmobile.com, we do purism here. There are other communities of Olds that may fit your needs better. You are certainly welcome to stay, and it is certainly not my place to tell you anything more than what I am here, as I do not speak for the site, the moderators, or anyone but myself, but, a lot of us like our old cars just the way they are. I just ran the entire damn hot rod power tour with an all original 70s A body. That car has hardened valve seats, being a 72, internal alternator, points, all original gaskets that leak a little. Headlights still have factory wiring, but are first generation Halogens that are brighter than an albino woman's *** in a bikini at high noon on Daytona Beach. A 2.73 rear end with factory tire sizes turns an engine in drive at 2500 rpm at 70.
That 59 demonstration has been, not debunked, but judged as a biased example. It's a 50 year old car, with 50 years of chassis rust, of a x frame design that was obsolete a mere 4 years later, in a crash test that was just started testing (small overlap) a year or so earlier. I cannot think of a "let's find the worst case scenario" situation very readily. Had it been a 5 year newer car, with less rust, it would have been a different situation. The article you link has multiple errors, and it smells like something Jalopnik would publish.
Here's the thing. You want validation to assure yourself that what you are doing to your car is right. You have read that a lot of people are purists, and you, as a resto-modder, do not want to be put down. That's cool. However, you do NOT accomplish that by putting the rest of us down, which you have done, multiple times, on this thread. The best you are going to get from us is "it's your car, do what you want," and that's all you should get. You're not going to get us to do what you endorse to add legitimacy and higher prices to restomodded cars. Let people do what they want and we'll do the same.
Here's the thing. You want validation to assure yourself that what you are doing to your car is right. You have read that a lot of people are purists, and you, as a resto-modder, do not want to be put down. That's cool. However, you do NOT accomplish that by putting the rest of us down, which you have done, multiple times, on this thread. The best you are going to get from us is "it's your car, do what you want," and that's all you should get. You're not going to get us to do what you endorse to add legitimacy and higher prices to restomodded cars. Let people do what they want and we'll do the same.
I couldn't agree more with this paragraph. My Starfire is in original condition, and I have come to the conclusion that I will not even paint it before putting it up for sale, as there is a large contingent of the hobby that values originality. Does my car need paint? Yes, yes it does. So much so that I rattle-canned several spots of surface rust (after sanding and treating) way back in '98 when I still intended to have it painted, and before I knew better that I probably should have had a professional painter attend to those spots.
Pettrix, you don't need to justify your changes to anyone. Good grief, dude... do what makes you happy with YOUR car.
I don't think anybody would question that new cars are safer than older cars. If you are going to be paranoid about driving your older car (muscle car of whatever) then you have a few choices which would be (1) put it in the garage and leave it, (2) get a trailer and haul it or (3) sell it. Pretty simple. I just drove my 54 to a car show about 75 miles from my house. We are talking about a car that doesn't even have ball joints or airplane type shocks on the front. I try to avoid congested traffic when I can. It does have power four wheel drum brakes and power steering. It is like driving a recliner. Your pay attention to your driving and everybody else all the time. This car has a steering column that has a shaft that comes all the way from the steering box to the steering wheel and the steering ratio is God only knows what. At the end of this month we will go on a cruise in east Texas that will probably be 250-300 miles round trip. In November we will go to a Veterans Day show in Bastrop, Texas that is 235 miles each way. The car has radial tires which have helped a lot. Would I use this car for a daily driver? Hell no. Am I afraid to drive it? Hell no. I do have concerns when I am on the road but the biggest one is somebody rear ending me and totaling my car. Am I crazy? Maybe so. But then that is just me.
I drive my car anywhere as well. I will try to avoid the rush hour traffic but I am not afraid to drive it. Its insured and try to watch other cars around me. I will also be going to Bastrop in November. I went last year and had a great time.
January 23rd, 2018, 09:20 PM
