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I am doing a little research for a project and have a general question about 1970 Body Tags.
The General Section of the Chassis and Body Parts Catalog shows the Fisher Body Model Code for the F-85 as 70-33277 regardless of Engine Type (L6 versus V-8). Also, While each model for the Cutlass has a different model code, they are also shown as the same Code regardless of engine type. (i.e Cutlass Sports Coupe shown as 70-33677 for both engines.
I understand that the Series and Engine type were part of the Vehicle VIN, but did that also apply to the body tag? If anyone has a 1970 Body tag for a L6 engine car, I would love to see it.
The General Section of the Chassis and Body Parts Catalog shows the Fisher Body Model Code for the F-85 as 70-33277 regardless of Engine Type (L6 versus V-8).
Not correct. Look at page 0-2 again. The series number/body style will be 33177 for a car with the L-6 and 33277 for car with a V-8.
Originally Posted by jharsh
Also, While each model for the Cutlass has a different model code, they are also shown as the same Code regardless of engine type. (i.e Cutlass Sports Coupe shown as 70-33677 for both engines.
Again, not correct. There are only two series, F-85 and Cutlass, where an L-6 was available. In both series, if the engine is the L-6, the third digit is odd (1 or 5). If the engine is a V-8, the third digit is even (2 or 6).
So F-85 with an L-6 is 331XX (but only one style was available, 77)
With a V-8, it's 332XX (XX = 77)
For the Cutlass, with an L-6, it's 335XX, and with a V-8, it's 336XX. For these, XX can be any of five two-digit numbers (35, 39, 69, 77, or 87). Notice the "Chassis Designation" columns. It shows the full five-digit string for each model with each engine.
For every other series that follows (442, Vista Cruiser, Delta 88, etc.) the only engines available were V-8's, so ALL of these series have a third digit that is even.
Last edited by jaunty75; July 17th, 2018 at 09:31 AM.
Not sure how you can say it is not correct, when I know what I am looking at and simply asking a question about it, but anyways the attached may help in what I am asking.
The first page is showing the VIN breakdown.
The second page shows the 1970 Oldsmobile Models and clearly shows the Fisher Body Model code as being the same for the F-85 L6 and V8. It also shows each model of the Cutlass as matching regardless of engine. That is what I am trying to understand.
I said what you said is not correct because it is not correct. Look at the first few lines of the page YOU submitted. The first two lines of the first column (Series, red and green arrows) shows two different F-85 series, 33100 and 33200. The former is a car with the L-6 engine. The latter is a car with a V-8. We don't know which version of a V-8 if more than one was offered, only that the car has a V-8.
Which points up something very important about reading this table. It is not supposed to be read line for line all the way across. You just use each column heading (Series, Engine Usage, Body Type) in decoding that particular digit or digits of the VIN. So even though the third line (Cutlass, 33500) lines up with the 350-V8 4-bbl doesn't mean that a 33500 series car came with a V-8. Such a car would still have had the L-6, and the third digit of the VIN would have been odd (5) to reflect this.
This table does not indicate WHICH V-8 a car that got a V-8 got if more than one V-8 was offered for that series. Which means that the VIN does not indicate WHICH V-8 is in a car that got a V-8. It only indicates that the car has a V-8.
The second sentence of your original post says this:
The General Section of the Chassis and Body Parts Catalog shows the Fisher Body Model Code for the F-85 as 70-33277 regardless of Engine Type (L6 versus V-8).
This statement is not correct. The Fisher Body Model Code for the F-85 is NOT 70-33277 regardless of engine type. As I've said several times, it is 33177 for the L-6 and 33277 for the V-8.
As I said, the first page (the one you are posting) is referencing the VIN. I fully understand the VIN tag. Look at the second page under the column titled FISHER BODY MODEL CODE and you will see what I am referring to.
I see what you're saying. I think that chart is not relevant to the VIN or the cowl tag. The first column in the upper left, "Oldsmobile Sales Code", shows the correct engine identifier (second digit, as in 3177 for the F-85 Six Club Coupe and 3277 for the F-85 V-8 Club Coupe). Both F-85 Six and the F-85 V-8 have the same Fisher Body Model Code, and that might be because both the F-85 Six and the F-85 V-8 have the same body even if they don't have the same engine.
If you look down the list of Fisher Body Model Codes, you can see that ALL of them have an even-numbered third digit, including all of the models under Cutlass Six. But all of those models have a 5 as the second digit in the Sales Code column, which indicates the L-6 engine.
The Sales Series section on the bottom half of the page also shows the correct second digit (odd or even) depending on the engine.
I said what you said is not correct because it is not correct.
Jim's talking about THIS chart. I have to admit, I've never noticed this before. I've also never owned a six cylinder Olds before, so I have no info on the cowl tag. I put this in the same category as the 68-69 442s. As far as Fisher was concerned, there was no difference in the body between an L6 car and a V8 car.
EDIT: Now that I look at this in more detail, I think this chart actually answers Jim's question. Note that the Fisher code for a 1970 442 convertible is shown as 4267, yet we know the cowl tag on a 70 convertible says 4467. Same for the 442 coupes.
Let's look again at the front section pages out of the '70 CSM. Here's the figure showing the "body and style number plate."
Their example is 33277. But this is NOT a Fisher Body Number or Fisher Body Model Code. This is a series of five digits that shows "Division Series," 332, which lines up with the second entry in the Model Designation Chart I posted above (F-85 V-8), and "Body Style", which is 77 for Club Coupe. I don't think you can relate the 33277 shown in this example to the 33277 shown on the chart that Joe P quotes. This example Body and Style Number Plate would be specifically for a 1970 F-85 V-8 Club Coupe. The number would be 33177 for a 1970 F-85 L-6 Club Coupe.
There are actually quite a few interesting items in Fisher codes on that page that Jim posted.
First, there's the 33277 and 336xx for the six cylinder cars.
There's the 34267, 33677, and 33687 for the 442s.
And now I see that Fisher used different body codes for the wagons with dual action tailgates, however that difference did not show up in the VIN. For example, the three seat Vista with a conventional tailgate had a 34865 VIN and a 34865 Fisher code. With a dual action tailgate the Fisher code was 34866 but the VIN was still 34865.
Joe,
Thanks, Glad you see what I am referring too. I started looking at this because even the Fisher Body Manual (Model Identification Chart, page 1-2) only showed 32200 for series. So it got me looking at other sources.
Would really like to see an actual Body Tag versus VIN tag of a know F85 or Cutlass with a L6 engine.
July 17th, 2018, 09:06 AM
