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SO I had a set of these basically fall into my lap. Supposed have been used for 1 season and broke a spring that bent a valve on the street second season. So I want to replaces the valves, and springs/retainers. So what my thoughts/plan is:
1. What other replacement valves, like PBM, will fit these heads in stock form?
2. Can a 2.125 intake be installed in these with only recutting the seats and keeping the original exh size?
I've seen Marks post that the OEM valves are not bad, but if were going to thru and port and build a set, might as well get something better.
SO I had a set of these basically fall into my lap. Supposed have been used for 1 season and broke a spring that bent a valve on the street second season. So I want to replaces the valves, and springs/retainers. So what my thoughts/plan is:
1. What other replacement valves, like PBM, will fit these heads in stock form?
2. Can a 2.125 intake be installed in these with only recutting the seats and keeping the original exh size?
I've seen Marks post that the OEM valves are not bad, but if were going to thru and port and build a set, might as well get something better.
Thanks John
You sent me a pm as well but I’ll answer everything here too.
The new Edelbrock 2.150 valves would be a good choice too. But hopefully the intake entry and bowl have been addressed as well.
The goal is STILL to get this car to run 11.20 or better, pump gas street trim just as it does going down the highway with a warmed over 455. Will be using these Speedmaster heads, street solid roller, Torker AND Performer intake and Holley Sniper EFI. Just gathering parts and getting a game plan for Novembers dis-assembly and have till March to get back together again.
Nice ride!
Have you considered just using solid rollers on a Hyd roller cam? Less required spring pressure normally means less maintenance and stress on the valvetrain.
And my bet is it’ll run almost as well with the Performer vs the Torker.
Yes Mark, have thought about that. Had a bunch of discussion on Yellowbullet on that subject. As well as talks with a few "cam" guys like Mike Jones, Bob Reinhaindrt and a few other. I have no issues with using solids on a and hyd roller cam, BUT that's would only be IF one had the hyd roller already. I feel a properly spec'ed tight lash solid roller is always the best idea IF one is buying new anyway. Just a little more made-to-order for ones exact combo and needs.
I know you like the performer intake, and seeing OLDS are easy to swap intakes compared to almost everything else, will do BOTH. I know where there is a speedmaster dual plane sitting right now. Need to see IF it's an "air-gap" style. I think a buddy has a performer. And my cost to race port is peanuts anyway, couple coffee's, time to listen and learn and maybe $150 CND $$$.
The new Edelbrock 2.150 valves would be a good choice too. But hopefully the intake entry and bowl have been addressed as well.
Can those be used?? Are they not .342 dia and speedmaster OEM valve .344? Also would the ext valve need to shrink to accommodate the 2.150?? BUT we have 2.125's in hand NOW so will probably just use those. Nice upgrade from the 2.072 the stock valves were, and here now, so supply chain issues are defeated. Just need to be checked out.
Yes Mark, have thought about that. Had a bunch of discussion on Yellowbullet on that subject. As well as talks with a few "cam" guys like Mike Jones, Bob Reinhaindrt and a few other. I have no issues with using solids on a and hyd roller cam, BUT that's would only be IF one had the hyd roller already. I feel a properly spec'ed tight lash solid roller is always the best idea IF one is buying new anyway. Just a little more made-to-order for ones exact combo and needs.
I know you like the performer intake, and seeing OLDS are easy to swap intakes compared to almost everything else, will do BOTH. I know where there is a speedmaster dual plane sitting right now. Need to see IF it's an "air-gap" style. I think a buddy has a performer. And my cost to race port is peanuts anyway, couple coffee's, time to listen and learn and maybe $150 CND $$$.
Bernhard Wrote:
Why not get Dale to rework the heads, that way you are not leaving anything on the table?
Bernhard Wrote:
Why not get Dale to rework the heads, that way you are not leaving anything on the table?
I don’t have time to even whipe my own *** right now. I took on more work than I need. Also trying to build a cottage in the North takes up a lot of time
I keep in touch with John though
Last edited by CANADIANOLDS; August 20th, 2022 at 10:31 AM.
Can those be used?? Are they not .342 dia and speedmaster OEM valve .344? Also would the ext valve need to shrink to accommodate the 2.150?? BUT we have 2.125's in hand NOW so will probably just use those. Nice upgrade from the 2.072 the stock valves were, and here now, so supply chain issues are defeated. Just need to be checked out.
The new Edelbrocks come with 2.150/1.68 exhaust. There’s still enough room for 1.71, which are a waste anyway though.
And I’ve done a few sets of the Speedmasters with the new valves, no issues.
Last edited by cutlassefi; August 21st, 2022 at 11:08 AM.
I don’t have time to even whipe my own *** right now. I took on more work than I need. Also trying to build a cottage in the North takes up a lot of time
I keep in touch with John though
It's a good thing but frustrating. The only reason I didn't get you to build my 350. What Lake? We also have a 3 year goal to live year round at Fishing Lake. The name doesn't lie, we catch 30 to 60 a day. A person needs hobbies besides Oldsmobile's.
Bernhard Wrote:
Why not get Dale to rework the heads, that way you are not leaving anything on the table?
Like Dale said, we do keep in touch as he's little over 30 mins from me. I was talking to him about doing the steel heads and HE'S the one that mentioned getting aftermarket aluminum heads. He said to me on Tuesday and I owned these Speedmasters on Thursday.
So 2 reason that were doing these heads:
1. As Dale stated, he's too busy to take on new work right now.
2. We do pretty good at the shop porting a wide wide variety of heads too. Even to the extent we cast our own SBc and LS series heads. Our Ls 7 style heads, both NA and power-adder heads are right up there with MAST or FRANKENSTEIN stuff.
Now the reason for this thread is to see what would be the best valves for my style build? I know from talks with Dale that he HAS proven combo's to run where I want to with ported C with 2.07 Torker and other stuff. BUT like I said, there are 2.125 valves sitting. THEREFORE with these members advice along with our own thoughts, looking like we will run the 2.125 intake with the original Speedmaster exh valves, match spring for our solid street roller, 1.7 roller rockers.
Just hope this 1970 W30 convert TRIBUTE can run with our mild pump gas, hyd roller 383 Camaro's??????
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
John
I look forward to your 455 build followed by a drag test. I myself is working on a 455 Olds drag test, if I can put the parts together to do it. Stick to Dale's advice, a solid builder of racing engines and free thinker. I've run my plan by Dale as well. My goal: easy 10s @ 3600 pounds with production Olds parts, in and over a 3 week period start to finish.
I look forward to your 455 build followed by a drag test. I myself is working on a 455 Olds drag test, if I can put the parts together to do it. Stick to Dale's advice, a solid builder of racing engines and free thinker. I've run my plan by Dale as well. My goal: easy 10s @ 3600 pounds with production Olds parts, in and over a 3 week period start to finish.
Mark, when you starting? Your build might help me fill in the blanks on mine. I'm going with more street-oriented style chassis build. MPH will probably say 10's, but low stall and gear will probably keep me in the 11's. Also no cage. Mine will also be a work-in-progress throughout the year with possibly a OD trans and more gear.
It's a good thing but frustrating. The only reason I didn't get you to build my 350. What Lake? We also have a 3 year goal to live year round at Fishing Lake. The name doesn't lie, we catch 30 to 60 a day. A person needs hobbies besides Oldsmobile's.
Its on Shanty bay Lake Nippissing..French River area. Working on clearing the land, putting in a road , a well and a shop. Ya you need other things to do besides Olds….well sort of ,, my boat has a big block 425 in it, Berkeley jet drive…😎
I’m thinking about putting speedmaster heads on my boat …on topic 😉
Its on Shanty bay Lake Nippissing..French River area. Working on clearing the land, putting in a road , a well and a shop. Ya you need other things to do besides Olds….well sort of ,, my boat has a big block 425 in it, Berkeley jet drive…😎
I’m thinking about putting speedmaster heads on my boat …on topic 😉
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by fleming442
If you don't get it done in 3 weeks will you lose the shop? Sounds like tv drama. When does the clock start?
My time is important, I've got other projects which mean more to me. Just remember who has ever on here:
1. Chosen a core
2. Machined and built the engine in house
3. Tested the engine with supporting dyno data
4. Put the above engine in a car and drag tested @ a known weight with known conditions
5. All in a short period of time
In my opinion you should pay close attention to what I do here, it will only help your cause. This will not be a thread about spending money.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by New2oldsw30
Mark, when you starting? Your build might help me fill in the blanks on mine. I'm going with more street-oriented style chassis build. MPH will probably say 10's, but low stall and gear will probably keep me in the 11's. Also no cage. Mine will also be a work-in-progress throughout the year with possibly a OD trans and more gear.
My time is important, I've got other projects which mean more to me. Just remember who has ever on here:
1. Chosen a core
2. Machined and built the engine in house
3. Tested the engine with supporting dyno data
4. Put the above engine in a car and drag tested @ a known weight with known conditions
5. All in a short period of time
In my opinion you should pay close attention to what I do here, it will only help your cause. This will not be a thread about spending money.
You do you, boo. Are you buying a chassis or using one already setup? That's 75% of the ET, and you know it.
You're talking about using all factory parts in an aftermarket head thread.
I'm just trying to understand what exactly is going on. So far, all i got is: you may have found a 425 to start with.
Honestly, the most impressive thing would be to slap the bone stock engine with a super tune on it into whatever chassis you're using and make a baseline pass. Then, see how much it improves.
Last edited by fleming442; August 22nd, 2022 at 11:22 AM.
You do you, boo. Are you buying a chassis or using one already setup? That's 75% of the ET, and you know it.
You're talking about using all factory parts in an aftermarket head thread.
I'm just trying to understand what exactly is going on. So far, all i got is: you may have found a 425 to start with.
Bernhard wrote:
Its about doing more with less and not being a blister pack engine builder.
The chassis only allows you to use more of the engines HP TQ it does not create.
Marks Buick stocker works but it is far from state of the art NHRA class stock car. Doing more with less. In fact it is an easy recipe to follow and not hard on the pocket book.
Last edited by Bernhard; August 22nd, 2022 at 11:40 AM.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by fleming442
You do you, boo. Are you buying a chassis or using one already setup? That's 75% of the ET, and you know it.
You're talking about using all factory parts in an aftermarket head thread.
I'm just trying to understand what exactly is going on. So far, all i got is: you may have found a 425 to start with.
I plan on building a 425 Olds with a aftermarket intake, cam, flat tappet, rocker arms and pistons. And I won't have much money in it.
Location: Colorado Springs Colorado/Thousand Oaks Ca
Posts: 1,719
Originally Posted by Bernhard
Bernhard wrote:
Its about doing more with less and not being a blister pack engine builder.
The chassis only allows you to use more of the engines HP TQ it does not create.
Marks Buick stocker works but it is far from state of the art NHRA class stock car. Doing more with less. In fact it is an easy recipe to follow and not hard on the pocket book.
My Buick F/SA 315 HP has been 10.41 NHRA legal with a 1.336 60 foot how far under the index is that?
That Buick of Mark probably makes double that. He did a 100 stock, 390Hp 427 and it was 490Hp with the GM BOX cam, not a aftermarket stovk eliminator cam.
I plan on building a 425 Olds with a aftermarket intake, cam, flat tappet, rocker arms and pistons. And I won't have much money in it.
Mine will be pretty much the same but with the Speedmaster heads. FYI I have about $150 CND plus say shipping to and from Texas TOTAL into the heads so far. I know Taxas shipping rates since last heads I shipped went to Slick Rick.
Didn't want to do a flat tappet since I do NOT have faith in the current supply chain. Or I would need you to find me some reground OEM Olds lifters. So went and bought BAM solids
Have intake in hand, but need some better rollers then my current ones. So probably go with PRW steel 1.7s.
Actually hoping to get about what your 455 build did with the W30 intake??? But more after ET then dyno #s.
My Buick F/SA 315 HP has been 10.41 NHRA legal with a 1.336 60 foot how far under the index is that?
The F stock index is 11.80 so you are 1.39 under the index
Your car works well . A lot of class cars have expensive fuel, and ignition systems, shocks and light weight components in the diff and transmission.
Are you running https://www.microbluebearings.com/ bearings or other performance finish?
Was that with a metric transmission?
What is the race weight so we can get a ballpark figure on the HP your making?
Last edited by Bernhard; August 22nd, 2022 at 08:37 PM.
Microblu is ok for internal engine stuff. Our junk usually make 4 digits, so miht not really notice it over just coated bearing. Performace Bearing ceramics help more, but a lot more $$$. The chassis being a efficent as possible ALWAYS pays off.more at lower power levels the big power level.
Microblu is ok for internal engine stuff. Our junk usually make 4 digits, so miht not really notice it over just coated bearing. Performace Bearing ceramics help more, but a lot more $$$. The chassis being a efficent as possible ALWAYS pays off.more at lower power levels the big power level.
When I asked about the Microblu coating I was thinking more about the wheel bearings and diff bearings and gear set. I asked stock class racer that I know, how much gain was to be found in rifle drilled axles and some of the other light weight reduction methods. They found no gain on the Big block car but the small block cars picked up.So to your example it depends on power level. The ceramic bearings are cool but like you said $$$.
I did not know that people were also using Microblu on engine components like bearings cool.
Thanks for the reply.
My goal: easy 10s @ 3600 pounds with production Olds parts, in and over a 3 week period start to finish.
Originally Posted by VORTECPRO
I plan on building a 425 Olds with a aftermarket intake, cam, flat tappet, rocker arms and pistons. And I won't have much money in it.
I guess I'll just wait and see what this clusterfvck turns into.
As far as rod ratio goes, Smokey Yunick said "Put the longest rod you can fit in it". The Engine Masters show proved that it doesn't do squat. The difference is dwell time in the bore and piston speed, so if you can turn those into something, more power to ya.
Last edited by fleming442; August 23rd, 2022 at 04:28 AM.
I guess I'll just wait and see what this clusterfvck turns into.
As far as rod ratio goes, Smokey Yunick said "Put the longest rod you can fit in it". The Engine Masters show proved that it doesn't do squat. The difference is dwell time in the bore and piston speed, so if you can turn those into something, more power to ya.
that engine masters show proved when you throw a total mismatch of parts together, you get equally **** results
478” 12.25 to 1 comp, short 3.76” stroke, massive ports it made an embarrassing 1.3 ft lbs of TQ per cube.
that’s **** …it’s **** because port velocity was in the toilet with both rod ratios..
the Olds we are talking about here has the opposite problem. Small high velocity ports where air speed is through the roof to start with.
I guess I'll just wait and see what this clusterfvck turns into.
As far as rod ratio goes, Smokey Yunick said "Put the longest rod you can fit in it". The Engine Masters show proved that it doesn't do squat. The difference is dwell time in the bore and piston speed, so if you can turn those into something, more power to ya.
Bernhard wrote:
Why are you so against this build clusterfvck ?
Both Mark and Dale can do more with less! Why you ask, because they think there builds through their not mail order parts engine builders.
August 18th, 2022, 04:42 AM
