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Old Feb 27, 2023 | 07:43 AM
  #1  
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Forgotten History

I was at Sebring Raceway this weekend for the Trans Am series races. They allow you to walk pit lane before the main events. I looked up and there it was, a part of Oldsmobile history.


Last edited by cutlassefi; Feb 27, 2023 at 08:07 AM.
Old Feb 27, 2023 | 08:00 AM
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I've always considered it a lost opportunity that Olds spent heavily in NHRA, IRL, and sports car racing in the 1980s and 90s and didn't publicize it, at least not outside of enthusiast magazines whose readers already knew about it. Talk about a lost opportunity. Then they pulled the funding because they weren't getting sales results. DUH!

The Aurora-powered 1996 overall winner at Sebring.


Old Feb 27, 2023 | 09:04 AM
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Very cool 😎
Old Feb 27, 2023 | 09:43 AM
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The 80's was when Roger Smith, a "bean counter" was CEO of GM. He believed "quality" beyond meeting minimum expectations was a waste of money. First Oldsmobile was neutered and killed off, then it was Pontiac, who introduced the Solstice.
GM kept Buford because a deceased Chinese dictator liked them ? The idea that they had a slightly higher profit margin on Buford's sounded good, except the volume was way less than Olds or Pontiac. Buford was well known for what ?
Old Feb 27, 2023 | 12:39 PM
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Cool they have that at Sebring. Here's a shot of McKee MK.7 4WD Can Am car powered by an aluminum 455 twin turbo and a modified Jetaway transmission with four speeds and the pitch fixed in either high or low. Granted I don't fully understand the pitch thing. They did power a number of Can Am cars including a McLaren. As previously stated it would have been nice to see them more involved in racing. I'm sure GM had the reins on.
Old Feb 27, 2023 | 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Cossack
Cool they have that at Sebring. Here's a shot of McKee MK.7 4WD Can Am car powered by an aluminum 455 twin turbo and a modified Jetaway transmission with four speeds and the pitch fixed in either high or low. Granted I don't fully understand the pitch thing. They did power a number of Can Am cars including a McLaren. As previously stated it would have been nice to see them more involved in racing. I'm sure GM had the reins on.
That isn't the turbo car. That's the injected SBO. Here's the twin-turbo CroSal McKee car from 1969.






Old Feb 27, 2023 | 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by OLDSter Ralph
…GM kept Buford because a deceased Chinese dictator liked them ? The idea that they had a slightly higher profit margin on Buford's sounded good, except the volume was way less than Olds or Pontiac. Buford was well known for what ?
I think we were last in China in 2018. There are many, many cars on the roads with heavy traffic like the biggest cities in the USA. A lot of them were Buicks. While there, we were sometimes driven around in Buicks. It is considered a prestigious vehicle there.

Do not get me wrong, I wish Oldsmobiles (and Pontiacs) were still in production, but Buick sales are successful in China.

Last edited by Tri-Carb; Feb 27, 2023 at 01:04 PM.
Old Feb 27, 2023 | 01:20 PM
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Wow, yea that is a lot of engine. I guess it would have been hanging out of that MK.7. I used to go to the historic races at Elkhart in the early 90's and saw a couple Olds powered Can Am cars but wasn't sure what they were since my knowledge is limited. Thanks for the pictures.
Old Feb 27, 2023 | 06:59 PM
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Cool thanks for posting.
1996 quad 4 power ?
Old Feb 27, 2023 | 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Bernhard
Cool thanks for posting.
1996 quad 4 power ?
From Post #2:

Originally Posted by joe_padavano
The Aurora-powered 1996 overall winner at Sebring.
Note that this was not the IRL motor, but a stock-block based race motor.




Old Feb 27, 2023 | 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano
CroSal
I’ve read about that name before but don’t know anything about its origin. If you have more info, please share.
Old Feb 28, 2023 | 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Fun71
I’ve read about that name before but don’t know anything about its origin. If you have more info, please share.
Cro-Sal was a racing team formed by Gene Crowe and Ralph Salyer.



Old Feb 28, 2023 | 04:44 AM
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I like that angle drive distributor on the yellow car.

Regardless of which divisions got the axe, even if the Olds marque was still here, would we recognize it? So many things had gone corporate. GM's cars are now Medium Expensive, Expensive, and Very Expensive for their three car brands (as are everyone else's.) The model seems to be Normal Marque, and Luxury Marque. Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan seem to be following that, with the first three axing a division a decade or so ago. GM always had the most divisions and still does. While Buick isn't strictly necessary, I wonder what the difference is between Buicks and just expensive trim Chevrolets. From my experience, I can tell you what the difference is between a Toyota and a Lexus. One more coat of paint, and nicer interior and radio. Same sheet metal, chassis, and powertrains.
Old Feb 28, 2023 | 05:10 AM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano
From Post #2:



Note that this was not the IRL motor, but a stock-block based race motor.


Pretty impressive, 10,500 max rpm! Considering all the problems this motor had with Grandpa driving them, obviously good enough to win the championship. I have also read the same about the 3.4 V8 in the SHO Taurus. The one we had come for service at the dealership had no issues and racked up quite a few miles.

Last edited by olds 307 and 403; Feb 28, 2023 at 05:19 AM.
Old Feb 28, 2023 | 05:12 AM
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Anyone have the specs on that twin turbo 455 aluminum motor? What about the injected SB?
Old Feb 28, 2023 | 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
Anyone have the specs on that twin turbo 455 aluminum motor? What about the injected SB?
700 HP
Old Feb 28, 2023 | 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Koda
I like that angle drive distributor on the yellow car.

Regardless of which divisions got the axe, even if the Olds marque was still here, would we recognize it? So many things had gone corporate. GM's cars are now Medium Expensive, Expensive, and Very Expensive for their three car brands (as are everyone else's.) The model seems to be Normal Marque, and Luxury Marque. Ford, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, and Nissan seem to be following that, with the first three axing a division a decade or so ago. GM always had the most divisions and still does. While Buick isn't strictly necessary, I wonder what the difference is between Buicks and just expensive trim Chevrolets. From my experience, I can tell you what the difference is between a Toyota and a Lexus. One more coat of paint, and nicer interior and radio. Same sheet metal, chassis, and powertrains.
Being a Buick guy for quite a while, the ride quality, cabin dB's (active noise cancelling), interior quality, and options are pretty much it. Having owned an Enclave, vs riding in a Traverse, the Buick rides like a car. Not so much the Chevy. Lacrosse vs Impala is quite a bit different on the interior as far as cluster, center stack, and surfaces. Interior is the big difference GMC vs Silverado, too.
Old Feb 28, 2023 | 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403
Anyone have the specs on that twin turbo 455 aluminum motor? What about the injected SB?
The twin turbo motor was written up in the July 1969 issue of Hot Rod.



Old Feb 28, 2023 | 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Koda
I like that angle drive distributor on the yellow car.
I believe that's because the mechanical injector pump occupied the normal location of the distributor.
Old Feb 28, 2023 | 01:14 PM
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Thanks Joe P.
Old Feb 28, 2023 | 03:51 PM
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Notice that the engine in that Cro-Sal car is mounted backwards - bellhousing towards the front and water pump towards the back. Apparently this was due to the 4WD system?
Old Mar 1, 2023 | 10:25 AM
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I'm curious if any of you with the Hot Rod article know what brand those turbos were? They definitely have a period look to them but it's interesting to note they're both mounted for clockwise rotation. That tells me they're off-the-shelf units and not specially developed parts for that engine. Also given their size, I'd say they came from a commercial vehicle (truck/tractor) application rather than pass-car (keeping in mind the number of pass-car turbo applications in 1969 were very limited and almost exclusive to Europe). This might surprise some of you but I can assure you, it's VERY common. You'd be shocked at how many 'race' turbos are actually units off of your every day John Deere tractor! Pretty cool integration of some old school wastegates, too.
Old Mar 1, 2023 | 10:40 AM
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Check out RAJAYs. They remind me of some that we used on a 70s era aircraft that I once owned.
Old Mar 1, 2023 | 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by acavagnaro
I'm curious if any of you with the Hot Rod article know what brand those turbos were? They definitely have a period look to them but it's interesting to note they're both mounted for clockwise rotation. That tells me they're off-the-shelf units and not specially developed parts for that engine. Also given their size, I'd say they came from a commercial vehicle (truck/tractor) application rather than pass-car (keeping in mind the number of pass-car turbo applications in 1969 were very limited and almost exclusive to Europe). This might surprise some of you but I can assure you, it's VERY common. You'd be shocked at how many 'race' turbos are actually units off of your every day John Deere tractor! Pretty cool integration of some old school wastegates, too.
Read the article that I provided the link for.


Old Mar 1, 2023 | 01:03 PM
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“1958: TRW (Thompson-Ramo-Woolridge of Cleveland, OH) develops the 300 Series Turbocharger
1969: RAJAY Industries (Long Beach, CA), a unit of the Texstar Corp in Grand Prairie, TX, acquires the entire TRW turbocharger line. Texstar later became a unit of the Hillman Co. of Pittsburgh, PA.”
Old Mar 1, 2023 | 02:57 PM
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Very cool and impressive for the time.
Old Mar 1, 2023 | 03:25 PM
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So was that 700 HP achieved with the exhaust manifolds shown in the Hot Rod cover picture?
Old Mar 2, 2023 | 09:58 AM
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In case anyone in interested, here is an article on a 300 series Rajay turbo from 1997 which looks to be very close to the TRW units used on that aluminum 455. As noted above, TRW sold their catalog to Rajay in 1969 and, more interestingly, the design was ultimately bought out by Garrett in the mid '80's. Garrett has been a key OE turbo manufacturer since the '50's. They supplied GM with the turbos on the early '60's Jetfire and in the '80's for all of the various turbo Buick's - T-Type, GN, GNX.. Yes, they are still an OE supplier today.
It looks like the '300' nomenclature stems from a 3 inch "rotating group" which is a bit unique. It's not unheard of to have a 1:! ratio turbine/compressor but it certainly isn't common (compressors are typically larger than the driving turbine by as much as 1.5x or more). That size range puts in the neighborhood of what might typically be used on a 6-ish liter inline 6 diesel engine today.
RAJAY/AMT/Reprint (dotheton.com)
Old Mar 14, 2024 | 11:44 AM
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Just came back from another day at Sebring.
They have a building there for driver meetings etc, and this year they had a display of about 20 cars. Low and behold look what showed up.
I used to live not far from Wayne Taylor when I lived in North Orlando. Ran into him a couple of times here and there. Nice guy.


Last edited by cutlassefi; Mar 14, 2024 at 11:46 AM.
Old Mar 14, 2024 | 11:49 AM
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Kewl. Does it have the Aurora motor now or the Chebby?
Old Mar 14, 2024 | 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by joe_padavano
Kewl. Does it have the Aurora motor now or the Chebby?
Couldn't see, this was as close as you were allowed to get. My bet would be Chebby.
Old Mar 14, 2024 | 01:04 PM
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I worked for the Menard IRL team in the mid-late 90's for the Indy 500. Ran the Aurora engine in those cars. Much more reliable than the Menard V6 turbo from a few years prior (based on the old Buick V6.
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