Kilmster

I recently got a '71 Delta 88 Royale with a 455, but it came with a 2 barrel carb.


The car needs other work before I can totally do the engine, but the carb is in major needs of a rebuild, and might even need replacing as the main threads are stripped where the filter enters the carb.


So...


I am thinking I may put a new 4 barrel and manifold on there since it will likely be a few years before I get to a total engine rebuild. I know this is a holy war here, but I'm asking for feedback on carb preferences. The engine is more or less stock now. They got rid of the crossover and it's going out into straight duals. that's the extent of the modifications though.


I want to make sure I choose a carb that won't run like crap now, but will accommodate a mild rebuild when I get to it (thinking I'll do a 69-70 w-33 level of build with 400ish HP and 500 TQ).


I've been looking at the Edelbrock 18134, the Holley Ultra Street Avenger 770, or a Jet Performance Stage II Quadrajet (32002).


I'd probably go with the Edelbrock 2151 manifold.


Main feedback I'd be looking for is streetability and ease of tuning. Most of my wrenching experience is on Twin Cam Harleys - I haven't done much with cars since I was a kid and never really messed with a carb at all. I don't want to have to spend three years dialing in the carb.


The car is intended to be a driver. Maybe not a daily driver, but I'd like to be able to drive it on a few hour road trip here and there as well as the occasional parade, and maybe a trip or two down the track someday.


Any useful feedback would be appreciated.

oldcutlass

I would rebuild or replace the 2v carb for now. Your current setup won't tolerate a 4v carb in the size required for your future rebuild requirement.

Kilmster

Thanks, Eric.


Could you elaborate on that (not arguing with you, just looking to learn here)? To my understanding, the Quadrajet came in 750 or 800 CFM based on CI of engine with the big displacement getting the 800 carbs. If they turned out 390 HP engines with that, why won't that work. I think the ones I was considering were 770 or 800.


Thanks, Mike.

dc2x4drvr

The stripped threads in your 2bbl are easily repaired. If you decide to put a 4bbl on it use a Qudrajet.

firefrost gold

I have a q jet on my Rallye and I can say it is the best running carb i have ever had with that said I have not touched it. who ever set it up before I got the car is a Real pro. My last q jet i did, did not run , start , or perform like this one. I have had better luck getting a Edelbrock and Holley to run good but than like I said im not that good. From what I have played with I think the Edelbrock is the easy to work on , low tech easy to get very close. Holley is next on level to set up and lots of parts and options to get to work easy resale if you go to a bigger one later . Q jet great carb but harder to set up from what I have seen my last one was a SMI carb . Good luck
and happy testing .

SeanMiller063

I'm not the most knowledgeable person but my last delta 88 had an almost stock motor with a performer intake 750 webber and duals set up similar to the way yours sounds with an hei. Not sure it may have had a cam but I'm not sure http://s1283.photobucket.com/user/Iv...9d166.mp4.html
Sorry for the poor quality and (I know shouldn't have let him play in the car while it was running. Won't happen again)

oldcutlass

If the factory put a 2v carb on it, why would over carbing it be to your advantage. Wait until your ready to upgrade your engine and spec all the parts to your new build.

67 Cutlass Freak

I tend to agree with Eric. Your engine probably has deep dish pistons, small valves, and a rather tame cam. Even if you changed the cam, intake, and carb, you'd still be limited by the other components. Unfortunately, it's just not that simple to bolt a different intake and carb onto your engine. Most likely you would lose performance.

grampy

Rebuild the 2 barral buy a thread repair for the fuel inlet.with big heavy car with hiway gears and a weak camshaft.the four barral power increase is way too small to be worth it. A better rear gear and a exhaust with a recurve timing is where I would start.

olds 307 and 403

I would go either with a Qjet or a Street Demon 625 or 750. Both the Demon's are new castings based off the Thermoquad with improvements. Any of the 3 above will beat your 2bbl in power AND mileage, if tuned to your motor.

captjim

I really don't understand this line of thought?? They put Q-jets on low comp, mild 350s in the late 70s. a 4 bbl on a 455 is NOT over-carbing it, IMHO. Many guys swapped out a 2 bbl on an early 350 for 4 bbls and gained performance. Lastly, there is a school of thought that a 4 bbl, especially one like a Q-jet, with it's small primaries, actually gets BETTER mileage.

oldcutlass

Just my opinion, I'm suggesting he wait until he rebuilds the engine and get a setup conducive to his future build. He will not gain enough to warrant upgrading his carb to his current setup to warrant the additional cost. A 2v is an inexpensive carb to repair, rebuild, or replace.

Erinyes

I don't really see a problem here. A Qjet is almost infinitely tunable, for his current build or for his future build. It will run quite nicely on the primaries, even if it won't take advantage of a stronger engine, and can even get better mileage than the two barrel. They're very reliable, and don't need constant tweaking.

Get the manifold/Qjet combo now, tuned for the current build, and later retune it for the rebuilt engine. Best of both worlds.

redoldsman

This is what I would do. I just don't see a problem.

Stevec

I have a nice clean low mileage edelbrock performer intake that I was thinking of selling....

joe_padavano

I'm with Jim on this. I've done the 2GC-to-Qjet swap on a couple of Olds engines and never been disappointed. The smaller primaries and properly adjusted secondary air valves WILL provide marginally better fuel economy - when driven the same, of course.

The problem comes when you keep flooring the throttle to hear the carb go WHAAAAAAAAAA... when the secondaries open.

Seff

I agree on the Q-jet.

nsnarsk65cutlass

Q-jet for sure.

Kilmster

Thanks, guys. I really appreciate all the feedback.
It’s kind of funny. I had another 71 Delta 88 growing up with a 455 and a Quadrajet on it. Back then anybody with a GM that had one called it a Quadra-Junk or a Quadra-Puke. Today more people are definitely fans than back in the day. Maybe we just didn’t know any better then.
Eric (or anybody else) – do you know if getting the 4 barrel option resulted in any other changes to the engine back in the day, or was it really just a manifold and carb option on the assembly line? I don’t want it to run like crap, but I really hate putting money into something that I plan to eliminate eventually.
Does anybody have any experience with the Jet Performance rebuilt carbs? The price doesn’t seem terrible based on what I see used, original carbs going for that needs to be rebuilt, and I would want that done by somebody with experience anyway. That 32002 can be had for $389 delivered.
http://www.jetchip.com/Shop/shopdisplayproducts.asp?sppp=10&catID=36
There are also some on eBay that seem to have similar build notes that is a tad cheaper (especially if they take a lower offer).
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370480290687?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageNa me=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
Thanks again for all the different views – I appreciate it.

Kilmster

Steve - Is that intake the 2151? How much would you be willing to take to part with it? Be gentle - I've got two teenage girls and one just went to college.


Thanks,


Mike

Erinyes

Factory four barrel engines generally could be counted on to have at least some slight internal differences - slightly higher compression, or different cam specs to take advantage of the higher air flow potential of the Qjet.

But remember, the Quadrajet is an on-demand carb. The secondary air valves will open as the engine requires, not in a linear response to the secondary throttle blades. So even if you get a carb set up for your eventual engine specs and leave it alone, you really won't be seeing detrimental performance, as such, with your current build. It won't be optimum, but I don't see any reason it wouldn't be easily livable.

If you aren't familiar with tuning a Qjet, I would get one from someone who knows what they are doing, explain the situation, and let them handle it. It might cost a little more (nothing dramatic), but it would almost certainly be worth it in the long run.

Stevec

Kilmster give me a day to pull it and look it over and I'll get you a price, last I remember it was very clean.

455man

In 71 I doubt there are any changes to the inside of the engine from a 2bbl and a 4bbl. The compression and cam should be the same.

Stevec

Kilmster, I got it,it looks great! Just has some rtv on the mating surfaces nothing a razor and/or gasket scraper can't get off. It's a little dirty and dusty but not greasy,hit it with a pressure washer and I bet it would look new.

It's a edelbrock performer 2151 with less than 300 miles on it
All the threads are in good shape
How's $200 obo sound?
If you want some pics give me your cell # and I'll send you some

brown7373

Another advantage of a Q-jet on a stock 4bbl manifold is all the accelerator brackets, etc. are available and will work with fewer modifications, like some aftermarket stuff.

Seff

A trip to the wildaboutcars.com 71 service manual will tell you whether the 350 2bbl and 4bbl cams were different. The compression is ~8.5 for both, though - as you say.

jpc647

I have no personal experience with Hollies, except for one on a a 327ci chevy motor, but that was a double pumper unit.


My experience with Edelbrocks has been nothing but a pain in the ***. I've spent a lot of time researching, talking with the techs, and trying to get my car to run right. Some members have had better luck on the forums, CooperCutlass ran a 13 second car on a 1405 edelbrock, but my stockish 350 won't run well. Either looses it's umph on the top end, or bogs right off the line. Maybe it's the motor, because of other things, but to me it seems like it runs out of fuel, catches back up a split second later and takes back off. It'll peel out, stop, peel some some more. But short of putting a camera under the car and watching the filter, run dry, I don't know what to do. But I always smell gas when I'm on the highway and I let off to coast or slow down. I also worked on a flat head ford and the E-Brock had a bad burr the throttle plates were hitting and it would cause the engine to stall.


Q-Jet's have a bad reputation as Quadrabogs, etc. People threw them away for years for Hollys or Edelbrocks. Why? It'd guess because they were old and needed rebuild, etc. But as I walk through car shows, I stop and I look at every A body Cutlass I see, and I notice one unarguable fact, 98% of cutlass's have Q-jet's on them. Anything from the high dollar restoration cars, to the real driven cars with miles on them. Now, no one in this hobby is in it because they like to drive slow. If these cruise night cars or high dollar restoration cars couldn't be perfectly turned throughout the entire RPM range, idle to red-line, only the concourse show restoration cars would have them, for originality. But I don't know anything about Q-Jets, so It'd end up paying for someone else to tune it. But I'm going to send it out to have it rebuilt and refinished. But rebuild to what spec, I don't know. Hard to tune a carb for an unknown engine.


So my long winded recommendation, It'd stick with a quadrajet.

Kilmster

Well, thanks for all the feedback everybody. Right or wrong, I'm going with the Q-Jet. I Scored an intake, but with the other things I've got to do, I think I'll put the carb on my Christmas list to the wife, and throw it on this winter. I'll let you know how it turns out!