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Well this is off topic but the idea is the same... I am going to eventually paint my 1956 F100 back to "Meadow Green" a factory stock color with no metallic, etc. I am thinking about using old school Lacquer paint. My thoughts are I could do some of it now, some in a year, and maybe repaint the whole outside in a couple years. I figure Lacquer is more tolerant of dirt,etc and would be easier to paint? I plan to take the doors off it this winter. get them fixed up and painted and put back on next spring, Then hopefully next fall work on it some more... What is you guys thoughts? Thanks for your input, Greg.
I am no expert but have painted a few cars with Lacquer. My opinion it is easy to use, very forgiving, mistakes easily corrected, can be applied outdoors. It requires 5 coats or more which takes time. Make sure your primer is compatible with the paint. It requires no clear. Thing is to make sure it goes on wet or it wont buff to a high gloss. I doubt it is the best for weather protection and requires buffing after time to remove the paint that starts to weather/dull.
I am no expert but have painted a few cars with Lacquer. My opinion it is easy to use, very forgiving, mistakes easily corrected, can be applied outdoors. It requires 5 coats or more which takes time. Make sure your primer is compatible with the paint. It requires no clear. Thing is to make sure it goes on wet or it wont buff to a high gloss. I doubt it is the best for weather protection and requires buffing after time to remove the paint that starts to weather/dull.
Yes, your thread is what made me think about Lacquer. Your wagon looks great! Thanks!
The problem with spraying a car over years is matching the color from panel to panel and batch to batch.
Yep I'm guessing that is true. I plan to do the inside of the doors and the jambs this winter. Then the inside of the top and dash maybe next winter. Then finally the whole outside of truck in a few years. I am hoping I could sort of run the jamb and inside of door paint up to the crack of the doors and then when finally painting the outside it would fog over some a little onto the jamb paint and look OK.... I really don't know what I am doing but I figured this old truck would be good to learn on as it will never be a show truck...
-- Thanks for all the input guys...
Not sure about your area but here in Pa there are very few places to get Lacquer paint, a few older paint shops might have some old factory pack, but...
Not sure about your area but here in Pa there are very few places to get Lacquer paint, a few older paint shops might have some old factory pack, but...
It is no problem to get lacquer on line and have it shipped. I get mine from TC Global restoration shop paint. Its new not old stock. Any factory and non factory colors are available. I also use their thinner for compatibility.
I now for a paint and refinishing supplier. I have found that for most cars built in the last 20 years or so we can furnish a proper match simply from the cars paint code.
However older cars are a real headache, much more prone to uneven fading which makes paint matching even more difficult.
Having said that, if your car has been resprayed with a modern solvent basecoat system then finding a match for subsequent repairs should be quite simple.
With Lacquer, make sure you wait about a month before color sanding and buffing the finish coat. The paint needs to be fully cured. If you sand and buff too soon, it will look fantastic the day you do it, but as the weeks go by, it will dull and look worse and you'll end up sanding and buffing again... if you still have enough top coat to do that, that is! This is all based on painting I did in the early 1980s, so perhaps there has been advances in lacquer. Personally, I think the modern paint systems work great and look great, but if you want a truly authentic factory look on a vintage car, you have to do it the way the factory did it.
With Lacquer, make sure you wait about a month before color sanding and buffing the finish coat. The paint needs to be fully cured. If you sand and buff too soon, it will look fantastic the day you do it, but as the weeks go by, it will dull and look worse and you'll end up sanding and buffing again... if you still have enough top coat to do that, that is! This is all based on painting I did in the early 1980s, so perhaps there has been advances in lacquer. Personally, I think the modern paint systems work great and look great, but if you want a truly authentic factory look on a vintage car, you have to do it the way the factory did it.
Never heard of this before .
Years ago ( when lacquer was in vogue ) I sanded and buffed spot repair jobs the same day .
Never had a problem .
On overall lacquer jobs we even sanded between coats .
Enamel , was the one you couldn't touch for a month until it hardened .
Here's another trick with lacquer that I learned many years ago .
On the very last coat , mix an overabundance of thinner to paint .
If you were mixing 50/50 then mix it 75/25 . This is called " mist coating " .
It will allow the paint to " flow out " and make it look almost like an enamel job .
This was especially handy in areas like door jambs , where you didn't want to buff .
You had to be careful not to overapply this very thin mixture , or you would get a run .
Here's another trick with lacquer that I learned many years ago .
On the very last coat , mix an overabundance of thinner to paint .
If you were mixing 50/50 then mix it 75/25 . This is called " mist coating " .
It will allow the paint to " flow out " and make it look almost like an enamel job .
This was especially handy in areas like door jambs , where you didn't want to buff .
You had to be careful not to overapply this very thin mixture , or you would get a run .
With Lacquer, make sure you wait about a month before color sanding and buffing the finish coat. The paint needs to be fully cured. If you sand and buff too soon, it will look fantastic the day you do it, but as the weeks go by, it will dull and look worse and you'll end up sanding and buffing again... if you still have enough top coat to do that, that is! This is all based on painting I did in the early 1980s, so perhaps there has been advances in lacquer. Personally, I think the modern paint systems work great and look great, but if you want a truly authentic factory look on a vintage car, you have to do it the way the factory did it.
I can tell you that back in the late 1960s, early 1970s, in the body shop where I worked for cars which we sprayed with lacquer (including my own ride) we did not wait 30 + days to bufff out the paint.
I seriously doubt any body shop did. One could not stay in business doing so. There was not enough free space to store painted and yet-to-be-buffed vehicles. Nor would it have been a sound practice to allow a sprayed but not yet buffed finished to be subjected to the effects of being operated on the roads for 30 + days before being buffed.
I would also note the finished product did not "dull as the weeks went by."
Well this is off topic but the idea is the same... I am going to eventually paint my 1956 F100 back to "Meadow Green" a factory stock color with no metallic, etc. I am thinking about using old school Lacquer paint. My thoughts are I could do some of it now, some in a year, and maybe repaint the whole outside in a couple years. I figure Lacquer is more tolerant of dirt,etc and would be easier to paint? I plan to take the doors off it this winter. get them fixed up and painted and put back on next spring, Then hopefully next fall work on it some more... What is you guys thoughts? Thanks for your input, Greg.
Lacquer isn't as durable as a urethane but certainly would fit your needs. There probably isn't an easier finish you could use. Still start with thoroughly washing the truck followed by cleaning it with a wax and grease remover. Any foreign substance in the paint can cause adhesion problems. Then be sure to sand anywhere you are going to paint with 400 grit paper. The scratches created by the sandpaper will aid the adhesion. Any places with raw metal showing or putty you will have to prime first. Use a lacquer primer.
I don't know why one would want to use lacquer ( besides maybe truer to originality) maybe you meant a single stage where you don't use a clear coat ??? . You can get a good urethane single stage paint that will be just as user friendly as the lacquer but a bit more durable and many shops still can mix this in factory colors. if not as mentioned before TCP global is a great source for factory paint online.
Last edited by coppercutlass; Oct 23, 2019 at 07:23 PM.
I don't know why one would want to use lacquer ( besides maybe truer to originality) maybe you meant a single stage where you don't use a clear coat ??? . You can get a good urethane single stage paint that will be just as user friendly as the lacquer but a bit more durable
Single stage urethane is still an enamel .
Which means it still has to be applied in a dust free paint booth . The skill of the painter determines the gloss , flow out , lack of orange peel , etc .
With lacquer , you can apply it in a feed mill with a vacuum cleaner .
And , after color sanding and buffing , it will come out absoulutely glass smooth .
A lot more work , but for us " Backyard Billys " it makes a beautiful paint job possible .
Last edited by Charlie Jones; Dec 8, 2019 at 10:09 AM.
Flame Red- Painted in my garage using single stage Urethane from Summit Racing
IMHO go with Urethane single stage, three coats and you can color sand (wet sand) and buff the next day. Another preference to using lacquer is to use Urethane base coat clear coat. I do both depending on the job. If I'm painting Stripes I'll use the base coat clear coat so that after it's cleared there's no transition or ridge along the stripe edge as the clear will cover it with three coats. I just did a 65 Plymouth in Red single stage Urethane and wet sanded / buffed it the next day and it looks like glass. I used to get my single stage paint from TCP Global but someone told me about the S/S Urethane from Summit Racing and that's what I used on the last two I painted and really like the product. You can't beat the price at $103 a gallon for Flame Red. It wet sands really easy and goes on really well. If you have any questions let me know I'd be glad to help. Main thing is be sure to use the correct hardener and reducer for the temperature when you're painting to avoid orange peel and follow the tech Sheet for air pressure setting.
Thanks carguy, Love that Plymouth! Nice job! The reason I was thinking about lacquer was that I am going to have to buy everything, I don't have a booth, gun, air dryer, etc,etc. The truck I want to paint is a driver and will be good to learn on. As I said earlier I want to do it in stages, probably starting with the inside of doors, jambs. 2nd phase maybe next year might be inside of top and dash ( It's a 56 F100- off topic I know, but I feel I know you fellow Olds guys and value your input). Anyway.. third stage in a couple years I would like to paint all the outside at one time. A couple guys on the truck site recommended painting the inside with enamel rattle can and that sure would be easy but if I painted the outside later I would have to use enamel cuz if I use Lacquer it would bubble up if it contacts the enamel-- Is that correct? I also don't know about paint mask problems and protecting my lungs. I have a positive pressure mask that uses a battery that hooks to your belt I got when I retired as we used to paint equipment with regular old enamel at work in a spray booth. There was no hardener and I know that wouldn't be any good for a car. Thanks again to all you guys! Keep it comin!!
Five coats of lacquer, no clear, sprayed out in the yard, 50-50 mix paint and thinner. paint was over 500 a gallon and it took 2 gallons with just a bit left.
I dont do a whole lot of painting. Mostly partials , and motorcycles. The completes i have done I did in single stage both very easy to use and I didnt use a booth. When we did my 72 cutlass we didnt use a booth. Once i was done with all the body work i handed over spray duties to my good buddy. You can do a good backyard job with clear coat basecoat. I used bottom of the barrel materials. Ppg omni base coat.... Took 12 coats of **** thin paint to cover and dupont nason clear.paint and clear cost was under 350.
Last edited by coppercutlass; Oct 24, 2019 at 05:46 AM.
Thanks Greg! As far as not having materials I understand what you mean but you're gonna have to have a spray gun no matter what type paint you use and you don't need a spray booth or dryers. I paint all of the cars I do right inside my garage. As for paint tools you can use the same thing to spray S/S or Base coat / Clear that you would use to spray lacquer. I think you'll find the Urethane enamel Ea͏s͏y to work with. If you make mistakes just sand it back down and repair and keep going. There some good YouTube videos that are very helpful. Base coat clear is the most forgiving. Base coats go on really easy and with the clear you can wet sand out any dirt Jin's, bugs etc then spray another coat. Keep doing that till you have the desired Finnish. Base clear will cost a little more but you can do a complete car, truck for under $500.
Greg ,you can spray enamel over lacquer but you can not spray lacquer over enamel ,it will react \ lift \ wrinkle. and no matter what you do you have to sand all the shine off any paint before you can spray any paint over it, paint does not bond chemically ,it is a mechanical bond and must be sanded ,it's not how deep the scratches but how many. lacquer paint sales have long been banned here in MI and it won't hold up well in our humid climate anyway. unless you are doing an as factory correct restoration I would not use lacquer paints as there are far better quality paints in use today. single stage urethane paint would suit your needs fine and be more durable and is user friendly,no special equipment other than a good spray gun\respirator needed.I would be glad to help if you need any help\advice, I am here in MI just north of GR. I have been painting cars well over 30 years,many of those years professionally. winter is not a good time to do paint work here in MI unless you have a well heated shop.
Five coats of lacquer, no clear, sprayed out in the yard, 50-50 mix paint and thinner. paint was over 500 a gallon and it took 2 gallons with just a bit left.
Looks really nice. Whuuut? Did you say $500. a gallon???
I dont do a whole lot of painting. Mostly partials , and motorcycles. The completes i have done I did in single stage both very easy to use and I didnt use a booth. When we did my 72 cutlass we didnt use a booth. Once i was done with all the body work i handed over spray duties to my good buddy. You can do a good backyard job with clear coat basecoat. I used bottom of the barrel materials. Ppg omni base coat.... Took 12 coats of **** thin paint to cover and dupont nason clear.paint and clear cost was under 350.
That looks really nice, Copper. Hmmmmmm.....thinking....
Greg ,you can spray enamel over lacquer but you can not spray lacquer over enamel ,it will react \ lift \ wrinkle. and no matter what you do you have to sand all the shine off any paint before you can spray any paint over it, paint does not bond chemically ,it is a mechanical bond and must be sanded ,it's not how deep the scratches but how many. lacquer paint sales have long been banned here in MI and it won't hold up well in our humid climate anyway. unless you are doing an as factory correct restoration I would not use lacquer paints as there are far better quality paints in use today. single stage urethane paint would suit your needs fine and be more durable and is user friendly,no special equipment other than a good spray gun\respirator needed.I would be glad to help if you need any help\advice, I am here in MI just north of GR. I have been painting cars well over 30 years,many of those years professionally. winter is not a good time to do paint work here in MI unless you have a well heated shop.
Excellent info..... now I'm really thinkin...........
Advice i always give to people looking to venture into paint and body..... Go buy a fender at a junkyard. Practice fixing dents. Chop and re weld sections , make patches and ultimately paint. See what works for you without spending a whole ton.
Advice i always give to people looking to venture into paint and body..... Go buy a fender at a junkyard. Practice fixing dents. Chop and re weld sections , make patches and ultimately paint. See what works for you without spending a whole ton.
In my world the laquer jobs average 15-20 years before they start crows footing. More if they are outside. To keep them up you have to buff them once a year or use a collinite style paste wax that uses armstrong to polish it out. This is for acrylic laquer from either PPG or Dupont.
PPG still mixes duracryl laquer at few locations in the country. Dupont hasn't made it in at least 15 years. PPG is junk. It's expensive and they've taken the lead out of it. I had to do a collision job on the nose of a 41' Caddy. Used black PPG laquer and it didn't spray anything like the stuff from 25 years ago. It was hit and miss and I kept having to redo the hood until right. It would spray out fine and crack while it dried. I'll never use laquer again. I think it's junk and my guess these cheap kits from duplicolor or whereever else are crap also. It used to be easy to spray and work with but I lost my butt repairing that caddy because the paint was problematic.
If your going through the labor why not put quality into it. Base/Clear or SS or even a good quality activated enamel are all miles ahead of Laquer and they don't crack later.
Get your stuff from SPI and have the best products at a good price.
Another issue I have found with lacquer is the thinners aren't as "good" as they used to be.
They don't cut the paint as easily or go on as smoothly.
Probably has to do with VOC requirements.
Maybe some states you can still get the "old" thinners, with the good solvents.
That said, lacquer sprays and blends easily.
For the OP, if painting over a few years, just buy enough paint for the entire job and use as needed, then it will match for sure.
I have used lacquer that is 20 or 30 years old and it still sprays fine.
