dallas6778

hey all i just recently spent 1800 to have my car painted. i did all the body work, plus using a self etching primer and sealer over it myslef. i had them spray the car with their sealer, than a black basecoat and clear coat and about a week later i am noticing bubbles. first there were tons of very small hard 'goosebumps' on certain parts (which the owner told me was due to a reaction with the primer i sprayed, even though they supposedly shot on their sealer as well. he also said that they wouldnt be a problem as they are sealed by the clear.) now i am noticing several larger bubbles, a bit smaller than match heads, coming out. they are softer and i can press them down. what should i do? is there anyway i can fix it myself? (i.e. wet sanding, buffing, touch up paint, nail polish, wax) should i be worried? if so how long before i will have serious problems? im not too concerned with the looks since its just my daily driver, but one thing i do not want is further expensive repairs becasue i simply cannot afford it. thanks

67htc

I would be very worried. Had this same thing happen on my last project car.
The typical reaction you will get from the painter is DENIAL.
Beings you did part of the "prep" work; the painter will put all the blame on you.........
Will it get worse? You bet it will. It will NOT miraculously "heal" itself. If there is an improper bond in the paint now; it will only get worse..
I don't mean to be a s++t -disturber, or alarmist, here but I predict you are in for a rude awakening and bad time.
The most dificult thing thing to find in today's world, is someone who will accept responsibility.
And that IS the truth.
Good luck. (You'll need a bunch of it.)

dallas6778

actually im starting to believe its a result of the painters not waiting enough time between the base coat and then the clear. the bubbles i mentioned seem to only be in the clear; it looks like an outgassing problem.

Oldsguy

Every business should have some kind of guarantee on workmanship if not on satisfaction. Take it back and talk reasonably with them, see if they will repair it under warranty.

19871442

Take them to court, if all else fails. I think they owe you a new paint job!

19871442

I know when you take a car down to the metal, you need to use metal conditioner first, then use etching primer, followed immediatly by a coat of actual primer, otherwise rust could develope under your paint, and eventually surface through the new paint job, causing what you described here. I'm not saying this is whats happened here, but its possible, but its also possible that they did something wrong.

ijasond

As the owner of a paint & body shop, the last thing I want to see coming is some one bringing in a car with some shade tree bodywork done on it. If you don't know what you are doing, then you don't know what you did & therefore you can't blame the painter. Is the problem the same on areas where you didn't do any body or prep work? 99% of the time when someone does their own work BEFORE bringing it to a professional, all of the proper steps were not followed. If you "take him to court" you don't have a leg to stand on, unless you can prove that the problem is not limited to the areas you worked prior to bringing the car in for paint. EVERYTHING that goes under your paint job is a foundation. Cheap or inferior primers that are avilable at your local auto parts store(aerosol, red primer, acrylic primer/surfacers) can definitely cause problems like you described. No paint shop will accept responsibility for something someone else did to the car. Also, you said you put sealer on it. Sealer has to be painted before it completely dries(wet on wet), most sealers can lift if they dry too long before they are topcoated. Its ALWAYS harder to do a job right when someone else started it, I think most people here can agree with that. Maybe the biggest mistake he made was not telling you up front(or putting it in writing for that matter) that he couldn't guarantee his work over top of yours.

ijasond

Ok, reading that now, it sounds a little harsh. I definitely don't want to sound like I'm defending the guy. He could very well be a crook(we all know there are a lot of them in this business).

Oldsguy

Yes but you do have a good point. I know for a fact that the poor quality on my '69 Delta is due to the exact thing you described. The painter didn't really explain that to me and just shot it anyway. Two mistakes.......

marcar1993

Well, if it's only in the clear, you could sand down to the base coat and recoat the car with clear.

ijasond

It doesn't sound like a problem that could just be in the clear. Even if it was you don't want to sand the clear off & re-clear it. You might be able to get away with doing it that way on a solid color, but never on a metallic or pearl color. Plus, it would be less work to just re-paint it. If you have bubbles, the problem is underneath. I would give it some time, let the paint cure & make sure it's not going to do it somewhere else. Then, those spots will have to be taken down below the problem & built back up correctly. Someone who knows what they are doing can sand a spot like that down & determine what the problem is, then how to fix it. You might have the skills to lay down some bondo & primer & make it look smooth, but there are many, many products for many, many different applications. It takes education & experience to make it all come together like it should, and even more importantly, to make it stay that way for any length of time.

Have you talked to the painter since you made the post?

Ken Parsons

I have to agree with ijasond, I used to paint cars as a side job. When people wanted to save a couple of bucks by sanding and priming themselves, I still charged 3/4 of the regular cost and made a point that I wouldn;t garrentee anything except the finish when I delivered the job. Prep is the most important part of a paint job, but if you do it wrong, the painter is always the blame. You may have done a perfect job, but even if you go to court, you can't prove you weren't at least part of the cause.

ent72olds

I work for a major automotive refinish manufacturer and am a paint rep in NY. Keep in mind, a good quality paint job is like building a house, if the foundation is built on sand, the house will crumble. That's not a knock on the hard work you did before you brought it to the paint shop, but there is a reason good paint work is so expensive. Unless you were a dentist, would you drill and fill your own teeth. Not trying to be too funny, but that's something for a professional to handle.

chip_gikey

Wow after reading this post im getting nervous about my car. I am having it painted as we speak and when i got the car it was sanded down and primered, not exactly sure what all the person before me did to it and what kind of work he did. So i am having a friend of my family paint it but hes not going to sand down the body to bare metal, just going to wet sand it then do his thing. Obviously hes putting clear coat and all of that stuff on it but now im wondering if the primer thats on the body is going to make the paint bubble and stuff. He did the top and it looks good so far but i guess only time will tell. Cross your fingers for me lol.

Techmaven

My thoughts exactly.

ent72olds

Not waiting long enough between coats of base or clear(Flash time) will not cause bubbles. You would "trap" solvent this way and the result would be either "die-back"(clear looks to be extremely dulled once dried, usually can be sanded and buffed) or "solvent-pop"( looks like little holes throughout the clear, cased when the top dries over before the bottom, in which case the solvent needs to escape and has to "burrow" out from underneath resulting in holes, sometimes can be sanded and polished if shallow). Little "bubbles" that are present or may come and go depending on temp. etc., usually is caused by moisture "trapped" under layers. Could have been a humid day when you or the painter worked on the car, could have been moisture in the compressed air lines when primer, surfacer, sealer or base and clear were sprayed, or I've seen guys wet sand polyester and plastic filler which is a no-no being it is very absorbant, and the water will sink through it to the metal underneath causing either rust or "bubbles" later on in the finished product. Let me just say this, body and paintwork is much more technical and not as easy as many may make it seem. It is VERY expensive because of the labor involved as well as the materials. Not to discourage anyone, but this is a great forum to ask questions and get advice. Remember, "If you have enough time to do it twice, then you have enough time to do it right the first time!"

ijasond

you are absolutely right. not waiting between coats will not cause bubbles like the ones described here. Although, I hope he's resolved this issue since the original post back in '07.

dantana

There are so many things that can cause these problems right down to how you strip the paint off. Any paint stripper residue can cause this. Improper application of fillers, primers, sealers, basecoats and clears can all cause these problems. A lot of times you can sand the affected area and it will come loose down to the layer that was the problem. There are a lot of contaminants that can get into any stage of the work so I wouldn't start pointing fingers until you actually dig into the work and see where the problem started. You can speculate all you want but will never get a definitive answer until you tear into it.

MN71W30

You said you sealed it before you brought it to the shop. Then they sealed it again with their product. Is it possible the sealer they added was applied over a sealer that was contaminated or needed to be prepped with either a grease remover or with sanding? It's the only thing that I can see where a problem might be.

MN71W30

What the? LOL I need to start checking the dates. You talk about kicking a dead horse.

easytobedead

there is a lot of old post

Samson

it's an old post regarding the original thread sent - but to respond to the more recent posts on the paint issue... it could have been a number of things mentioned and/or it may possibly have been Fingerprints/handprints {oils from your skin} .. which will cause problems, such as 'bubbles', and eventually rust through of sheetmetal. it is a common problem as many people [professional and 'shadetree' alike] unknowingly or unwittingly touch the car/metal during the prep process, and/or fail to properly reclean the area if they know they touched it.