Billb442

I am in the process of restoring the instrument cluster and dash of my 69 442 convertible and need some help with proper painting of the various parts and where to get the proper color paint. My car was Platinum with blue interior. According to the 69 assembly manual page 0-187 the instrument panel should be Dk Blue Met W-3855 and steering column should be Dk Blue W-3586. I checked with a Sherman Williams Automotive paint supplier near me but they didn't seem to have a clue as to what these codes mean. Anyone know where I can get the correct paint? I also will need the correct dye for redoing the dash pad as well.

69ishHoliday

My 69 Cutlass hardtop has a blue interior and I recently repainted the pillar covers their original blue color. I took one into a local body shop paint supply store and they pulled out a paint chart from 1969 and quickly found the color. They said they could only match it in laquer to get a good match. They mixed it and put it in an areosol can for me. The pieces were the exact color and painting them was a breeze. They said that interior colors were often also exterior colors and in my case the match was spot on. I would try a true automotive paint source rather than Sherwin Williams. - Steven

RG70442

Those codes should be WA3855 and WA3586. Some areas no longer sell lacquer. Not sure where you are located and if you are going to spray with a spray gun and compressor. If your are, one way to go is - Dupont Chromabase Vinyl which comes in low, medium & high gloss. They have a system like most vinyl paint companies where you use a sanding paste /cleaner for vinyl/plastics/ and adhesion promoter for the best results. If you go that route I can give you the part #'s on those products. Contact you local Dupont Auto Paint Supplier and see if the WA#'s transfer to their database. If it doesn't contact Axalta color support @ 800-338-7668 and see if they can help you.(Dupont Auto Refinish has been purchased by Axalta - the reason Dupont Auto Refinish is no longer on the #24)

Billb442

Thank you both for the replies.

I did an internet search on WA3855 that RG70422 mentioned and found a site (paintref.com) that has a cross reference chart showing that code as "Trophy Blue" exterior color. So it sounds like what 69ishHoliday said about exterior color also used for interior may be correct. I will need to paint the blue hood stripes on in the future so I wonder if I can just get a qt of Trophy Blue and use it for both the stripes and interior dash pieces?

I could not find any cross ref for code WA3856. But according to the assemble manual it is used for the steering column and is Dk Blue but not metallic. Can a paint store mix up Trophy Blue without metallics in it?

RG70442- That Dupont paint you mentioned, is that for vinyl/plastic only or can that be used on metal as well?

RG70442

Yes that is correct on my 70 Gold interior the dark gold was a 1970 code 58 - used on the dash, and the light gold was a 1969 code 65 - used on seats,& door panels, both were exterior metallic colors. Different gloss levels change the appearance drastically. I used the lower gloss on the metal dash parts and the med gloss on the vinyl dash pad with code 58 - it turned out great. I ran into an issue finding the formula for the 70 non-metallic gold for the column. After I looked at it closely it was really close to the dash color so I adjusted my air pressure to make it slightly darker and sprayed with code 58.
Trophy Blue is 1969 code 51.
The Dupont vinyl is for interior only, it can be painted on the metal windshield post interior parts but is not made for exterior. It is a basecoat that has a vinyl binder added and is ready to spray - no reducer or thinner needed. Call that 800# and give them the WA# you can't find, maybe they can find a formula for it. If you can't find a formula for the column a good paint store should be able to custom mix if you bring them the part. Another option is SEM.

Billb442

Thanks for the info. I will check with the nearest auto paint store and see if they can mix up these paint codes for me. Could you give me some pointers on how you redid your dash? did you sand anything? Primer? How many coats of paint? Did you need to clear coat anything? Thanks.

RG70442

I used the Dupont system, the dash was in good shape - no primer needed unless you need to repair or fill something - cleaned it with soap & water, for sanding I used a special sanding paste made for plastics, you put a liitle on with a fine scotchbrite pad with water and sand lightly, rinse well with water, after its dries clean with a special pre paint cleaner made for plastics, then spray 2 light coat of adhesion promotor, let it dry, then spray the vinyl paint - it depends on the gun and coverage but I put 4-5 light coats on, no clearcoat. It's not that hard and you spray it with lower air pressure than what is used with regular exterior paint.

RG70442

Correction on what all it can be used on - here is the description from the Dupont website - Description A 7.0 lb/gal (840 g/l) VOC compliant, ready-to-spray, flexible coating designed for interior and exterior vinyl, plastic and trim applications, and may also be used as a striping paint. It is fast drying and offers low, medium and high gloss levels.
I personally would only use it for smaller width pinstripes since it is not clearcoated, or any hardener is added to it, as durability may be an issue for large exterior areas such as W30 stripes or OAI hoods.

Billb442

Thanks for the detailed steps, very helpful. I have a question about the dash pad though. did you paint your dash with a metallic paint? Would that have come from the factory that way? My 69 assembly manual does show the dash pad under the column for Dk Blue Met color but it just seems odd to me that you would want metallic paint on the vinyl dash.

I checked with a local auto paint shop and gave them the ditzler code for Dk Blue poly (13789) which I got from a 1969 Olds PPG Paint chart for interior colors. They said they could make it but only in lacquer and it costs $70 a pint. Ouch. I noticed they had some duplicolor perfect match (rattlecan) paint and one was labeled as GM dark blue metallic. I wonder if this is the correct color I need and how durable it would be. Anyone use this before?

70Post

I have a dashpad here from a '69 Cutlass....same color interior as yours. When you look at the dashpad surfaces that have always been well protected from the sun (meaning - the parts of the dashpad vinyl that are covered by the end vents and the gauge buckets) you can "see" what you are being told is the metallic part.

You need to look at these areas in fairly good light but you should be able to see what I mean.

You are probably thinking of traditional metallics like you see in outer body paints and that's what is causing the confusion. The "metallics" in these interior dashpads, vinyls, etc aren't the same in that you can't point out or isolate individual metalflake pieces like you see on outer body paints. They must be EXTREMELY SMALL in these interior pieces. Their effect is to give the part a sort of slight overall "metallic" SHEEN as opposed to giving what most would call a "metallic" look (ie outer body paint).

Again, look at the hidden/protected areas of your pad and you will likely see this "sheen".

None of these good paints for the interior are cheap and I sure wouldn't use any traditional spray can paints (you mention some type of Duplicolor spray can but you didn't specify what kind of paint it is...a paint for vinyls/plastics or is it one of their typical enamel spray cans meant for overall use?) on the pad or other interior plastics if you want a decent look. The vinyl/plastic paints are extremely thin to help avoid filling up the grain/texture of whatever part you are spraying.

$70/pint isn't out of line at all for a custom mixed vinyl/plastic paint...and the prices go much higher depending on where you go.

If you go to the Dupont place JUST ASK and talk to whoever is looking at the mix formula. They may be able to recognize that the metallic used in the formula is a very fine/small metallic, compared to the typical outer body paint metallic and give you their opinion. The folks that mix a lot of auto paints at these places can be extremely helpful/informative many times.

If your goal is to get a very nice overall finish and recreate the color/look of the original pad (or something close) then you're going to have to step up to these custom-mixed, higher dollar vinyl paints (ALONG with some of associated products which, at a minimum, means a good adhesion promoter). This wouldn't necessarily be the case if you were dealing with a black interior but you have a unique interior color. You'll also need to pay attention to your spraying pressures, etc. so see if they can provide you with a P-sheet for whatever product you might be purchasing. (P-sheet: Product Information Sheet that lays out the application process for the particular product....it'll show recommended pre/prep steps, spraying pressures, number of coats, etc).

SEM Products (as mentioned earlier by "RG70442"), a major manufacturer of vinyl/plastic paints and used a lot in the restoration business, makes (or used to make - I don't know if it's been discontinued, even so there's still probably inventory out there on the shelves) a color called Tahoe Blue Metallic. Compared to the original color of your dashpad it is quite a bit darker. The "metallic" look is fairly fine but maybe more of a metallic than an overall metallic sheen when compared to some of the custom mixed stuff you could buy.

As far as durability....none of this stuff is bulletproof. IT'S A PAINT and only as durable as the chemical makeup allows. Also, these aren't catalyzed products like the epoxies and urethanes that are used on the outer body. Spray the wrong cleaner, etc on the surface, use an abrasive on it in an attempt to clean something off and you'll have a problem. It'll scuff, scratch, etc just like any plastic surface....and probably a bit easier since these are thin coatings. Remember, you are putting A COATING on the surface VS. a plastic or vinyl surface that has the color IN THE plastic/vinyl itself in the form of pigment/resins/etc.

Billb442

Thanks 70Post. I was thinking of the more traditional metallics which is why I guess it didn't make sense to me. I hadn't bought interior paint before so I guess it was just sticker shock hearing how much it was. TCP Global website has the PPG paint but they also sell a "Restoration Shop" paint for a fraction of the price ($42 qt). Any experience with this paint?

70Post

I was going to suggest checking w/TCP Global as well. If you call them and end up talking w/George, please mention my name and city (Austin, TX).

They have the PPG refinish books/codes/paint chips on their site (as you may have already seen - but those books don't show paint chip representations for interior colors, just the exterior stuff) and can mix those colors in either straight lacquer or in a vinyl/plastic paint (I believe it's still lacquer but with a flex additive). If mixed in vinyl/plastic paint it will likely be a SEM brand vinyl/plastic paint mixed to the code in their books.

I've dealt with them a number of times.....good people and company. They'll just mix it to whatever the book calls for, formula/tints-wise.

You would want the "semi gloss" mix for the dashpad (and plastic if you're doing that as well).

Yes - I figured it was the whole "metallic" thing that was adding confusion...we tend to default to "that must mean it would look like outerbody car paint" with all those little, but still-identifiable-upon-close-inspection, metallic pieces. That's not the case in these interior colors. The stuff could also be described as having an overall pearlescent tone to it as well. Everyone has different interpretations of what they are seeing which makes it harder to describe here in words.

Don't know where you are located but it's best to spray this stuff in milder temps (and lower humidity conditions)....not the 100+ degree days we've had here over the summer.

The prices you quote seem a bit low...the vinyl/plastic paints tend to run that much (at least) for a PINT. But, one pint is more than enough for your dashpad and plastic. You don't "hose" this stuff on like you might be thinking. Sure, it calls for a couple medium/wet coats but it's not like you're spraying build primers, etc.

Billb442

Thanks for all the information. I will try contacting TCP Global and see what they recommend. Was hoping for a cheap way to get a half way decent job but it looks like that's not going to happen.

RG70442

Yes quality paint supplies are astronomical. Back in the day Lacquer was used on painting dashes, the only downfall was you had to add flex additive and flattener to achieve the correct gloss level and it is aggressive when applied over anything that has been repainted in enamel or urethane - it will lift - acts like paint stripper - so I would be careful if you use it as a stripe paint. Dupont does have a formula for that color in vinyl it is #5016 - it is a metallic, it has a minimum amount of metallic flake in the formula. It runs about $99.08 retail for a quart if you want to compare to other vinyl paint systems.

RG70442

You may want to price this to see, especially if you don't have any equipment and you factor in the cost of the prep materials. One would be to get a price from a body shop if you took them the dash on what they would charge you, and the other is if you live in a decent sized city, many dealerships use mobile vinyl/leather repair businesses to recondition thier cars interiors - get a price from them - it is a known paint formula, then compare to what you would have to buy if you sprayed it yourself.

Billb442

Thanks RG70442. you mentioned the lacquer can be aggressive and act as paint stripper. Since my dash pieces had all been painted or dyed black at some point what would you recommend? I have no idea what type of black was used. Seems like its on there pretty good though. Do I need to try and remove the black paint/dye first?

RG70442

So your dash was originally blue and they painted it black? You do not necessary have to remove the paint - if it is in good condition and not peeling anywhere. I would lean towards a vinyl paint so you won't have to worry about it, if you go with lacquer test a small spot, if it lifts then you know you have to strip whatever they sprayed on it, more than likely it will wipe off with lacquer thinner.

Billb442

Yes the dash was originally blue. I can see the blue color on the folded over edges on the back of the dash and under the removed vents. What every they used they did a really good job as there are no scratches or chips in the black. I think I may try some lacquer thinner on it and see if the black removes easily. I think I would like to get it off if I can as I think painting over the black may affect the color of the blue.