AbnMike

Gentlemen (and ladies):

I looked at a 1962 Starfire today. The car is, of course, beautiful. The problem is it doesn't run. Here are the stats as I know them:

1962 Starfire with an Oldsmobile 403 motor and 350 transmission. (I know the motor and transmission are not original). Has AC which "doesn't work" (it also didn't work when the car originally sold in 2011 at $6099). Block number is 557265 4B

It has an alternator, not a generator. Alternator looks new.

Data Plate:

style - 62-3647 Body LA 2004
TRIM 934 Paint M-M
ACC S-555-631

Here's the wordy version:

It wouldn't start when I got there so he hooked the battery up to a charger and a bit later it fired up, idled just fine. No smoke, no noises (slight exhaust leak it seems at the manifold to the exhaust pipe on the passenger side). Couple of spots of oil and trans fluid under the car.

Headlights work, turn signals work, brake lights work, wipers work (though they had been mounted incorrectly so when turned on they went down instead of up - luckily the hood was up and they popped down instead of ruining the very nice paint). When I hit a button on the heater the car stopped immediately. Then it started back up.

Drove it about 1/2 mile and at a stop light turned on the AM radio (which works) and the car died...don't read too much into that just yet.

Wouldn't start. Battery deader than a door nail. Called the guy up (he let me drive it alone) and he showed up to jump the battery. Wouldn't jump - more importantly I could get NO spark at the terminals. Strange. Checked the ground and it seemed grounded, terminals tight. Pulled the battery, took it to the house to charge it, went to lunch.

About 40 minutes later the charger indicated a half charge. Took it to the car and the car started. I went to drive down the road and 1/4 mile (or less) came to a stop and the car stumbled...floored it and it stumbled then ran. Slowed down to turn and it stumbled, but powered through --- decided then and there to get it back to the seller's house. Slowed down to turn and a stumble, then it died and coasted to a stop. Let it sit, it started (hesitantly) and I got it up to his garage by feathering the gas pedal to keep it running. Died and coasted into the garage.

Put the hood up and could smell gas badly but didn't see any leaks or pools. The 403 has one of those chrome round air cleaners rather than the stock big cleaner with the intake. Pulled that and the carb (Rochester 4bbl Quadrajet) looks like .... well, it has seen better days.


Edit: The Seller just emailed me and said he took the battery to be tested and it was bad so he has a new battery...


So I have been doing some reading and am at a loss - is it electrical gremlins (clearly, I think as there was no spark at the battery when jumping, but all the electrical stuff works (lights, etc....forgot to test the horn), PLUS a bad carb?

The seller has only had it for a month - according to him he bought it then another project he wanted more came up and he wants to sell the Starfire. He's an old (76) man, very trustworthy. Took me to lunch, etc. Even offered, once we agree on a price, to have the car towed to my house (an hour away in South San Diego) as part of the deal.

However much I love this car I don't want to make a deal on something that is going to be a nightmare.

The body is straight. No rust. Trust magnet stuck to everything but the aluminum side trim. Couple of dings in there but it's straight. The rear bumper is askew on the passenger side. It's about 1/2 inch away from where it should --- appears as though it got caught on something and pulled away (luckily without damaging the body or trim). I figure it can be pulled and straightened.

Interior is in good shape. One tear starting to be visible in the driver's seat. I imagine it will cost big bucks to get that fixed, or I could run a taxicab special (wooden beads) over the seat.

Couple of the interior lights didn't work (glove box, console box) but that's piddly stuff in my mind.

The big problems that worry me are the stalling at slow down/stop and the battery/alternator issue. I imagine that the generator to alternator swap had to have worked at some point in time (I was able to find the car for sale in 2011. I know it sold to this guy within the past month or two. He bought it running. He did mention that it stalled on him on one of the few times he drove it and he thought it was vapor lock, removed the gas cap and it started back up. I see now it wasn't vapor lock but something in the carb).

The carb clearly needs to be rebuilt. It likely isn't ethanol compliant, That -could- be an issue, or it could just be gummed up, etc. As I said it is a very dirty carb. Doesn't pass muster by Mr. Clean by any stretch of the imagination.

My electrical knowledge extends to knowing things need to be grounded and being able to do a continuity test between the two ends of a wire.

The AC belt isn't in place. Never has been as long as this guy owned it (and, again, it sold in 2011 to a previous owner with a non-op AC). No idea why it is non-op but the compressor does turn. I suspect it is a wiring issue with the generator to alternator swap - along with everything else.

So, after all this the two issues I need some advice on are:

How nasty is it going to be to sort that carb issue out and

How nasty is it going to be to sort that charging issue out. The "no spark" on a jump is a big uh-oh to me but I don't know what would cause it. The jumper cables never warmed up, either. However with the battery OUT of the car on the floor of the garage with the charger hooked up it was getting juice (jiggling the charge cables caused the needle to move on the charger). Plus it would start the car up after charging a bit.

I have attached a few photos.

1: Upper driver's side engine side of firewall above the brake booster. That's clearly some kind of ground wire that's loose but I don't know to what, or if it should even be grounded due to the generator/Alternator swap.

2: To the left of the first photo - wiper motor. Another ground wire (apparently) that is not connected. However the wiper motor works.That wire is coming out of the harness somewhere near there and is a tan color/

3: Another shot of picture 1 (above brake booster).

4, That nasty carb. I've been away from cars a long time (lived in DC where I just had motorcycles, now in SoCal where I want a classic car). I forget what that silver thing does, but it's capped as you can see.

5: Passenger firewall area. No idea what those two vacuum booster things do, but both are uncapped. You can also see it has an electronic ignition instead of points.

The car is in great shape. No rust. When it ran it ran clean and straight. Idled fine. No smoke. No rust or bondo on it. The transmission mount is correct for the swap that was done (and bolted in instead of welded so it can be changed back to the Slim Jim). Brakes worked. Stopped straight. Could steer it with your pinky.

Any advice that you can give would be vastly appreciated. He's asking $11,500 which I think is fair for this car despite the motor/transmission swap so it's not a numbers-matching car, but given the work (based on what you experts tell me) I want to go less than that....though you may tell me to run like hell, too.

I'm fairly mechanically adept as far as bolting on and connecting things.

Mike

59-59-59

If he has a HEI setup on that 403, I can almost put money on it that he is running a resistor/resistor wire up to the distributor, and forgot to take it out. This will cut down the full 12 volts the HEI needs to it

dutch injun

To me the price is a little high when there is no original engine available. On the other hand, the th350 is a cheaper/better shifting tranny than a slim jim. But it surely sounds like it needs lots of TLC. Good luck!

oldcutlass

I'd offer him $6000 and if he doesn't take it walk away. Clearly the car has issues. The lady that was selling my car wanted $10k I offered her $5, a week later it was mine.

San Fernando Olds

I wouldn't pay over $5000 for that car, as far as I can see It has lost it's value. It isn't worth that much more restored. Sounds like nothing but trouble when you do a conversion like that, of course it could be worse and he could have installed a chevy 350. Myself I would walk away from that car. For that price you can find a much nicer car.

redoldsman

Pictures of the body and interior would help. This car is going to have a lot of gremlins that will take a pretty good automobile electrician to fix. Considering the engine swap, I think he is way high on his price. Without seeing pictures, I would be at about $5,000. I love 62 Starfires. One of my favorite cars, especially in black.

San Fernando Olds

Is that the two tone grey one? First of all that isn't the original color for that car, that color was not available on 62 Olds, I posted before up above, it is a nice car, but too much has been changed to devalue the car, it still is way too much for that car, there are nicer ones out there. I 'm not writing this to be mean, but I have been around Oldsmobiles for my entire life especially 62's, and would hate to see you pay too much, we're here to try to help.

AbnMike

Thanks for all the advice. Sorry been busy and haven't been able to reply.

The car is on ebay currently - yes it is the two tone grey one and I know that isn't the original. It's easily findable on ebay as there aren't any 1962 Starfires on there when I checked the other day other than this one. I can't access ebay or CL (orange County or LA, I forget which) at work where I am now so can't attach those pics.

The paint is very nice. I did notice in the ad he mentioned rust in a floor pan that I didn't notice checking it out but I didn't get fully under the car.

He has since told me that the battery was dead so he put in a new one.

The car is also at the mechanic's now and he's fixing the wiring on the alternator and ignition as well as either cleaning or rebuilding the carb.

I know it isn't original and I don't want an original because I don't have original money. I'm just looking for a cool daily driver that will require minimal work. I'm a tinkerer not a rebuilder.

I understand it's a bit high in price. I was thinking it's likely a 9K car with the issues fixed. Thoughts?

oldcutlass

I looked at the pictures, and yes by the pictures it seems to be in nice DD condition. If the issues were fixed, I'd still put in the $7-8k range, could go up to 9, because it will still have other issues. AC, front end, exhaust leak, brakes...etc.

AbnMike

he's also having that exhaust leak attended to according to the email.

I wish the AC worked but then again in SD (next to the coast) I don't need it. I think I turned on the AC in my Element once last year and that's because I was up in LA. I don't even have AC in my house. It's the one thing I do not miss about Georgia/DC and the East Coast.

oldcutlass

We can give all the advice in the world, it really boils down to what you think it's worth and are willing to cut a check for. Tough decision, good luck!

dutch injun

I like that color combination better than the red you always see on them. It does seem like it has potential and a 455 is better than a 403. I'd agree with the statement above, if you want it bad enough.....good luck and let us know how it turns out

rocketraider

I think the car has a combination of electrical, fuel, and vacuum issues. Nothing that can't be fixed but it may take some time to sort them out.

If it's a factory air car it probably came with an alternator. Check build date code on the data plate underhood. If it's anywhere past 2A it should be an alternator car whether factory air or not. If it were a factory alternator car the wiring should have been pretty straightforward doing the swap- basically relocating the oil pressure sender wire and bypassing the resistor wire for HEI. You should check to see if it has the correct alternator, because with the battery issues my money says it has an internally regulated unit on it (as the 403 would have had) and it should have external regulator. Look at the alternator plug- I I is external (correct for the 62), - - is internal (after 1972). If you have an IR alternator plus the external voltage regulator, they're cancelling each other out and not charging anything, which could certainly kill a battery.

Engine dying when you push a heater control button tells me a big vacuum leak which is certainly capable of stalling the engine. Since that also starts the blower motor, if battery is weak and alt not charging, could have dropped voltage enough to kill the ignition. BTW that's what those vacuum cans on the firewall are for, HVAC and power trunk release vacuum storage.

A carb rebuild would probably do wonders for that beast. Me, I'd get rid of that EGR intake manifold and use one from a 65-72 330/350, or even an Edelbrock Performer. A wacky EGR valve can cause all kinds of sputtering and stalling too, especially off-idle.

Just wondering why the guy's asking price is double what he paid. I don't think Starfire values have jumped that much, especially with non-original drivetrains.

Like OC says- it's what you're willing to pay for that car, knowing it has some issues. 403 with a Turbo 350 is as good as it gets for a cruiser Oldsmobile even if it ain't original. You just need to be able to sort out its issues, or find someone trustworthy who can- in other words, someone familiar with both early-60s Olds and later Olds drivetrains.

viper771

I got mine for under 10K and it sounds like it has way fewer issues. My biggest/expensive issues will be new seat covers. I dunno myself.. a Starfire without the 394 (a tranny swap would be ok) isn't really a Starfire in a lot of ways. But, that doesn't mean that you can't find a 394 Starfire block and put it in there. If you dig the car, get it for the lowest fair price that you can, esp if you can live with the issues it has for now. Good luck