tmaleck

Vintage Air does not offer a Gen IV kit for the 66-67 Cutlass. They do have them for
Chevelle and GTO/Lemans. If the firewalls are truly the same, I would expect the evaporator box would bolt under the dash just fine. Refrigerant hoses and so forth should also route out the same. That leaves the controls, ducting and compressor mount. I expect the 68 350 Cutlass compressor brackets they offer would bolt onto the 330 no problem. Same with the condenser. Ducting is just hoses, and I'm an electrical engineer, so no worries about the controls.

I found a dealer willing to work with me on ordering and experimenting with misc parts and so forth. Anyone out there think this might work, or do you think I'm crazy. I want to save the original controls and general fit, so a universal kit doesn't appeal to me. Appreciate all comments.

Tim

hookem horns

Give them a call, good bunch of folks and can probably help you out. The GenIV uses electonic controls so not easy to modify to original controls. Was yours an original AC car? Their '69-'72 kits mount the compressor on the passenger side like factory but non-ac cars have it on the drivers side and harder to hide the hoses.

tmaleck

I checked with Vintage directly first, I'm only 60 miles from them. They said use a generic kit, even though they said it nicely. Mine is a factory air car, so also a passenger side compressor. The Gen IV controls appear adaptable to the Olds control panel, as it is very similar to the Chevelle. The most difficult thing I see looks to be the center dash vent adapter needs to be fabbed. I fabricate mechanical stuff and design electronics in my day job, so maybe I'm not as afraid of this as I should be. It would suck to trash a $1300 kit and have the car in pieces.

Tim

joe_padavano

Firewalls are the same on all A-body cars of a given year, as are all the HVAC boxes. The differences will be the control panel in the dash and the flexible under-dash ducting to the vents. I've found that when a company says "use the universal kit" instead of the other A-body kit, it's because they don't understand or want to take the time to understand what's the same or different from Olds to Chevelle.

I liken this to the aftermarket disk brake kits that say "don't fit 14 in. wheels". When I pointed out to one of the manufacturers that my car came from the factory with disk brakes and 14" wheels they simply said that it was easier to say use 15" wheels than to try to educate the public about the differences in disk brake and drum brake 14" wheels.

Sadly, I have to agree with them...

tmaleck

Joe,

Thanks for the input. In broad terms I agree with you. Safer for vendors to say no. But I think I will give it a try and see how it goes. If I work it out, I'll report back on what parts worked.

Tim

Bumbleb

how did this turn out? I am in need of air in my 66 and have no idea which way is up!!

tmaleck

I have the kit on order, plan is to install over the 4'th of July weekend.
Tim

tmaleck

progress update: Removal of the factory blower and evaporator were done this weekend. For those uncertain about access to the evaporator, the fender and liner have to come off. You can get the blower housing off, but the evaporator is buried behind the fender. Once you take the plunge on that, the rest is not too bad.

Underdash box and ducts are next weekend. BTW, I ended up going with the 67 Chevelle evaporator kit. More updates and pics to follow.

Tim

Bumbleb

Ooo I can't wait for you to finish this. Please be detailed in what must be done to make this fit. I do not fabricate for a living... I sell golf ***** so I will need as much help as possible.

tmaleck

Latest update. The old heater box is out, heater control panel is modified and installed. The original center AC outlet was junk, so I made one and it is in place and looks good. The new Vintage Air evaporator case is installed, along with three of four hoses connected. The low pressure suction line is still not in place, but looks to be simple enough to connect through the glove box opening. A Custom Auto Sounds dash speaker replaced the original AM radio speaker. Finally, with the factory evaporator out, there is room to add a power antenna, making using a car cover much easier.

What I've learned so far. A universal evaporator kit would suck. Once all the original AC parts are out, there are several large openings that need to be addressed. The fresh air intake on the right kick panel, the evaporator opening in the fender well, and the heater core and blower motor pass through openings on the firewall all need plugging. The Vintage Air A body kit has plates for this as part of the new installation. The hoses route through them as do the wires. The evaporator case is mounted to two of them as well.

Finally, if you use this kit, do not follow the instructions in order when it comes to connecting the hoses, installing the block off plates and hanging the evaporator. It will almost certainly not work out well. I will elaborate more on that in the next post. Pictures of progress to date will be up in a day or so. The wiring, compressor, condenser and ducting still remain to be done.

Tim

tmaleck

Here is a link to some pictures of the progress so far. The name of the pictures is a brief outline of what it is.

http://s655.photobucket.com/user/ken...ning%20Upgrade

Tim

Bumbleb

Thanks Tim you have successfully scared the hell out of me. I just got done putting a Classic Air Daily Driver kit in my brothers non AC 66 mustang and appears to be a cake walk compared to this.

TripDeuces

Looking forward to seeing the end result of this. I need to do this in my 66 also. Keep them coming.

tmaleck

I didn't take many pictures this weekend, as it was mostly wiring. I did get the compressor, belt and suction hose installed though. The fuel line routing and filter placement was a bit of an issue. I have a Holley Street Avenger carb on an Edelbrock manifold, so an external fuel filer is required. The carb has the dual fuel feed line, so there is very little room to work with. I had the main bracket installed, and ended up removing the whole thing to get the torque brace bracket installed. I'll take a couple of better pictures of that and add them to the Photobucket later this week. A stock carb and fuel line routing is probably OK. Vintage Air did not imagine aftermarket engine parts when they did the kit. The wiring on the kit had the be the easiest part of the job so far. Didn't take more than an hour and there's not that many wires to connect. Wiring included the power antenna, which is now working. First item done!

A word about hoses while I'm thinking about it. I had them send the 'modified' hose kit for the Chevelle application. In this kit, the hoses have one fitting installed (evaporator side thankfully), and a bare end on the other. Vintage Air recommends fitting the entire system, marking the hoses then removing the whole thing so the hoses can be cut and crimped. After spending 20+ hours putting the evaporator and stuff in, there was no way I was going to take is all apart again. They use an industry standard 'bead lock' hose fitting for the kit. I bought the only tool I could find that would let you crimp the fittings in place and not take the whole thing apart. It is from Mastercool and brand new is over $500. It is a hand held hydraulic press essentially, and works like dream. I bought mine used and figured to resell it once I was done, but might hang onto it for loaning to others that might need it. Also, buy a hose cutting tool, you need super clean and straight ends when putting the fittings on. I bought a PCV pipe cutter for $10 and it works like a charm.

I know this seems like a lot of work and trial and error, but I'm hoping my learning curve will make this easier for others to attempt. I really think this is the way to go once it's all done. Next weekend should be evac and freon charge. It might even be ready to test out.

tmaleck

Big progress this weekend.* The condenser assembly with receiver drier was installed and all the lines and hoses got connected.* The system held a vacuum for over half an hour, so we charged it up with freon.* It's a little light on charge, my helper misunderstood my question, so we need to add a few more ounces of freon.* We calibrated the control panel and got all the duct hoses installed, and the system actually works!* I bet this is the first time in 30 years those vents had cold air in them on purpose.* ;-)
*
We added a dual coil dash speaker for the stereo, and now when the radio is on, the power antenna goes up and you can actually hear the radio.* Senders and wiring for the three gauge panel is all done, we just need to drill the mount holes and hook it all up.* I have to admit, I had a pretty stupid grin on my face playing with the stuff like a little kid.
*
I was able to add captions and comments to some of the pictures this week, so that should help clarify what you are seeing.* Here's the link:
*
http://s655.photobucket.com/user/ken...ning%20Upgrade
*
Lots of learning this week too.* The condenser/drier assembly*is probably the worse part of this kit.* My advice is to get it as fully assembled as possible before marking and drilling mount holes.* I have added comments to some of the photos to clarify the issues I found.* The trouble is once you uncap the drier, you have a limited amount of time before the dessicant is full of moisture and the drier is no good.* If you expect to take a long time fitting it, maybe buy a spare drier.* Do all the fitting and marking with one, and use the brand new one when ready to put it together for real.
*
Also, the metal hard lines don't fit the 66/67 all that well.* The fitting for the compressor to condenser is OK, but the liquid line from the drier to the evaporator hose needs help.* Buy a straight hose fitting instead of the supplied 90 degree fitting and you should be in good shape.* Look at the photos towards the end to see what I mean.
*
That wraps up this weeks progress, more next weekend.
*
Tim

oldcutlass

Well you about talked me out of adding A/C to mine. It looks a PIA, my hat is off to you.

tmaleck

I think this is a good point to give my final report on the Vintage Air conversion on my 67 Cutlass. I used the Vintage Air 66/67 Chevelle (with factory air) evaporator, heater control and modified hose kits. I used the 68 Cutlass compressor and bracket kit along with the 68 Cutlass condenser kit. I bought the kit through Gary at Wheels of Time. He substituted the mish-mash kits to suit my needs and still gave me a 10% discount. The recommended Gates 7555 belt fit just right. I used a 2 into 1 'Y' hose adapter from Classic Auto Air Products in Fort Worth for the center vent, as the evaporator has 2 2" outlets for the center vent, and the dash vent I bought ala cart from V.A. has a single 2 1/2" inlet. I also bought 6 extra feet of 2 1/2" duct hose that I ended up not needing.

The sheet metal is still off, but the main work is all done. My helper and I have 35 hours into the project. In addition to the A/C kit, I installed an electrical three gauge aftermarket gauge set, Mallory Unilite distributor and a Hirschman power antenna.

In my opinion, the right fender and liner have to come off to do this job. The old evaporator may come out with the inner fender only removed, but routing the hoses, installing the block off plate. etc would be much more difficult with the fender on. Probably only added an hour total to the project to take them off.

Removal of the remaining factory stuff is not too bad, but it is tight under the dash to get the control panel out. Also, I expect if you have factory air as I did, the center vent will be trashed, so planning on a replacement similar to what I did ahead of time may save time and grief later. I have no idea how you would connect the factory vent to the V.A. duct hoses anyway.

The evaporator and mount plates go in fine. It was tight getting the box levered up under the dash, but once I found the correct angle, it went right into place. I would recommend finding some other method of securing the front evaporator bracket. Vintage Air wants you to run two #14 screws through the bracket into the cowl, where they will be visible under the grate at the bottom of the windshield, plus be a water leak risk. I welded my bracket, not sure what other methods will work. The control panel mod was easy, I just picked which lever made the most sense for each function. The Chevelle instructions are helpful, but the cut off lengths for the sliders are not the same, you'll have to figure that out on the fly.

The compressor and hoses go on OK, but the compressor bracket and pulley alignment do not match the instructions. The pulley does align OK though. Be aware there are several other errors in the instructions. I think they are mentioned in earlier posts here or in some of the picture comments on Photobucket. I would think more on hose routing and placement before cutting than I did. I wonder if I left enough slack in the compressor to condenser hose to replace the belt when the time comes, we'll see. I chose to buy a tool that let me crimp the hose ends on in place. It saved a lot of time and effort, but it's not the only way to go. Vintage Air offers some suggestions in the instructions.

The condenser was a challenge. I even thought to use the original 67 style condenser, but the fittings do not match the receiver drier or hoses, so I gave up on that idea. The newer parallel flow condenser kit from V.A. does fit, but it mounts totally differently than the original. Once you work out the mounting, it isn't to bad. I had to cut the core support around the original rubber mounts to get the condenser to drop in from the top, but if you have the radiator out, you can load it in from the back and not make that change. Final hose routing is'nt too bad, but plan to spend a bit more time than I did to get a clean look.e.

At the end of all this, I am very happy with the outcome. The fan moves a ton of air, so no more fogged windows in winter, and lots of cold air in summer. It seems a well engineered kit, I expect it will hold up quite well. Feel free to email if you questions, I'll try and help if possible. The link to the Photobucket pictures is in a post just above this one, or search for Cutlass Air. I gotta say I really like the Unilite distributor, the engine is so much smoother and no more occasional misfires.

Tim

davy jones

Does anyone have some info ...or know how I could get hold of this : " tmaleck " gentleman , that posted the great info for the Vintage Air Gen 4 ,for 1967 Olds Cutlass / 442. I have one of these great cars also. 400 / 4 speed / non-A/C car. I found Gary @ Wheels of Time & trying to get the items I need lind up. I have a few questions , like part # for Center Dash Vent & how to get the " Y " to use with it . Also any help , or where to find info for : I want to put in a good Tilt Steering Column , and want to use a Classic Performance Products " Reduced diameter Shaft " 9 for more header clearance ) ,and ends to mate it up.... Part # CLP-CPMAX-KN for the chrome one. Need to let them know which ends to use , like 1 " DD , and ( as I have been told ) 13/16" X 36 spline , Rag Joint end to mate to steering gearbox. Anyone know a good column to use , best I can guess so far is a 32 " length , floor shift ....does that sound right?.... Any help would be appreciated.... davy jones

Callaway200

I'm currently in the process of installing Vintage Air in my 66 Cutlass convertible. My car is a resto-mod with a LS 6.0, 4l60, Holley Terminator X wiring and Dakota Digital gauges my accessory drive brackets are from Bills Hotrod Shop sold by Speedway. I ordered the vintage unit for a 66 Chevelle less the condenser, compressor and compressor bracket. The evaporator bolts up perfectly without any mods. The hose routing plates on the kick panel and cowl also fit perfectly. The heater control mod works well on my 3 slide on my non air car. I removed the inner fender to route hoses. I installed an OE condenser for a 67 cutlass and mounter the drier to the condenser. I wouldn't order any hard lines you'll have to make your own. The defrost vents fit well, but the aren't wide enough, but they will work.
I hope this helps. Dan B.