LS Motor Conversion into A Body Cutlass
October 9th, 2012 | 03:00 PM
#1
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,452
LS Motor Conversion into A Body Cutlass
About a month back, I saw a 68 Cutlass Convert. at a cruise night and it had an LS series motor under the hood. The car had the factory console installed and it looked to be in the proper location. Automatic trans.
I guess my question is, is there a specific combination, out of a specific year vette, or camaro, etc that can be used as a "bolt" in swap. Are custom mounts always needed? I got down close to the ground and I couldn't see anything custom underneath the car, it almost looked as if the car came with the motor. Unfortunately, I never caught up to the owner to talk to him, so I'm asking here.
I've been debating looking to get the drive line overhauled. It just doesn't put out what I want, albeit it runs really well. Custom "crate" turn keys oldsmobile 350's are running close to $7,000 for the motor alone, and local shops want dang near $3000 for a stock rebuild. The LS route, I can get 350hp+ easy, with a transmission too, for $4000, new, with a 24 month warranty. It's looking appealing.
I looked through this subforum, and found a lot of custom stuff, not really anything like it appears this guy did. Just curious.
I guess my question is, is there a specific combination, out of a specific year vette, or camaro, etc that can be used as a "bolt" in swap. Are custom mounts always needed? I got down close to the ground and I couldn't see anything custom underneath the car, it almost looked as if the car came with the motor. Unfortunately, I never caught up to the owner to talk to him, so I'm asking here.
I've been debating looking to get the drive line overhauled. It just doesn't put out what I want, albeit it runs really well. Custom "crate" turn keys oldsmobile 350's are running close to $7,000 for the motor alone, and local shops want dang near $3000 for a stock rebuild. The LS route, I can get 350hp+ easy, with a transmission too, for $4000, new, with a 24 month warranty. It's looking appealing.
I looked through this subforum, and found a lot of custom stuff, not really anything like it appears this guy did. Just curious.
October 10th, 2012 | 06:42 AM
#3
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 904
From: St Louis, MO
There have been a lot of A body swaps. It is a bolt in swap with everything available these days. Pretty much any LS/vortec bolt in. All you need are Olds to chevy frame mounts, adapter plates, the correct oil pan to clear the frame (I used a CTS-V pan), and exhaust (f body). Nice thing about these motors is that almost all parts are interchangable, so not much custom is required.
Check out LS1tech conversion forum. There a sticky with over a dozen 68-72 A body swaps threads.
My build thread.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-iii-swap.html
Check out LS1tech conversion forum. There a sticky with over a dozen 68-72 A body swaps threads.
My build thread.
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...-iii-swap.html
October 28th, 2012 | 02:59 PM
#4
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 81
LS Motor Conversion into A Body Cutlass
Hi JPC647, you don't live in Mass, do you? I have a LY6 in my 68 Cutlass S convertible with a factory console and a TH400. The auto trannies are easy the sticks are more of a problem with the factory consoles. If you have some specific questions on the install, ask away.
Tom
Tom
October 29th, 2012 | 10:07 AM
#5
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Posts: 1,452
Hi JPC647, you don't live in Mass, do you? I have a LY6 in my 68 Cutlass S convertible with a factory console and a TH400. The auto trannies are easy the sticks are more of a problem with the factory consoles. If you have some specific questions on the install, ask away.
Tom
Tom
I do live in Mass! Have you been to the Kimballs show in Lancaster, MA? Was that you I saw there about 2 months ago!?
Honestly, It'd like to know everything about the swap. The hood was only open a little when I looked at (your?) car and I couldn't see much. Did you have to have custom motor mounts made? Is there a special bellhousing to connect the transmission to the ls6? Is it an Olds tranny or a Chevy one? What did the motor come out of? Was it a crate engine? A lot of ls6 motors are rated for 425+hp, and It'd love to do a similar swap into my 72. For what an ls6 motor and trans will cost, I'll be lucky to have my 350 motor and trans rebuilt to stock specs, and i'll have 200more hp, fuel injection, and possibly air conditioning, plus 25(maybe) mpg.
Last edited by jpc647; October 29th, 2012 at 11:23 AM.
October 29th, 2012 | 12:39 PM
#6
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 81
LS Motor Conversion into A Body Cutlass
Ha, that was probably me. I try to make it to the Kimball's cruise as much as I can. If I don't bring the Cutlass, I bring the Chevelle.
The hood on the 68's are a bit of an oddball. They don't physically open as far as the other years. I hit my head on it all the time. That's probably why it looked like it was only open a little.
The motor in my Cutlass is an LY6, not the LS6. The LY6 was used in 2007 and 2008 in the 2500HD's and some vans. I picked it up on Ebay as a complete pull out. Everything came with it that attached to the motor, except the tranny. It cost about $2100 shipped. It puts out about 353 hp stock and with a tune and headers, I'm running a little over 400 hp. It's an awesome motor.
I wanted to leave the tranny exactly where it was, so I got adjustable motor mounts from Dirty Dingos. It cost a little more, but offered a lot more flexibility. I could not use the factory BOP TH400, even with an adapter. It only had 3 bolts holding the tranny to the motor. I had a Chevy TH400 from my Chevelle that I used. At least that attached with 5 bolts.
I average about 16 mpg with the TH400 and 2.73 rear gears. I have not tuned it to improve the mileage yet. It's on my list of things to do. If you go with an overdrive, you will definitely be over 20 mpg, easy. I would do better, even with my set up, if I could only keep my foot out of it :-) .
I'll answer any of your questions that I can. My goal was to do the motor for $4k or under. I made some decisions (like headers, aluminum radiator, and a full new exhaust system) that put me a little over my goal. It was worth every penny. The car will run in traffic all day without a hickup. At the drags I pulled a 13.76 at 102.6 mph. Not bad for a 4305 lb car (with me in it) and highway gears. I still have the original motor put aside if I need it.
Tom
The hood on the 68's are a bit of an oddball. They don't physically open as far as the other years. I hit my head on it all the time. That's probably why it looked like it was only open a little.
The motor in my Cutlass is an LY6, not the LS6. The LY6 was used in 2007 and 2008 in the 2500HD's and some vans. I picked it up on Ebay as a complete pull out. Everything came with it that attached to the motor, except the tranny. It cost about $2100 shipped. It puts out about 353 hp stock and with a tune and headers, I'm running a little over 400 hp. It's an awesome motor.
I wanted to leave the tranny exactly where it was, so I got adjustable motor mounts from Dirty Dingos. It cost a little more, but offered a lot more flexibility. I could not use the factory BOP TH400, even with an adapter. It only had 3 bolts holding the tranny to the motor. I had a Chevy TH400 from my Chevelle that I used. At least that attached with 5 bolts.
I average about 16 mpg with the TH400 and 2.73 rear gears. I have not tuned it to improve the mileage yet. It's on my list of things to do. If you go with an overdrive, you will definitely be over 20 mpg, easy. I would do better, even with my set up, if I could only keep my foot out of it :-) .
I'll answer any of your questions that I can. My goal was to do the motor for $4k or under. I made some decisions (like headers, aluminum radiator, and a full new exhaust system) that put me a little over my goal. It was worth every penny. The car will run in traffic all day without a hickup. At the drags I pulled a 13.76 at 102.6 mph. Not bad for a 4305 lb car (with me in it) and highway gears. I still have the original motor put aside if I need it.
Tom
Last edited by TRW; October 29th, 2012 at 12:42 PM.
October 30th, 2012 | 06:46 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,452
Ha, that was probably me. I try to make it to the Kimball's cruise as much as I can. If I don't bring the Cutlass, I bring the Chevelle.
The hood on the 68's are a bit of an oddball. They don't physically open as far as the other years. I hit my head on it all the time. That's probably why it looked like it was only open a little.
The hood on the 68's are a bit of an oddball. They don't physically open as far as the other years. I hit my head on it all the time. That's probably why it looked like it was only open a little.
I remember saying to myself the day I saw it, I'm going to go to my car and grab one of my cards, write my cell phone number on it and maybe he'll call me and talk cars. I get back, you were gone, ha, just my luck.The motor in my Cutlass is an LY6, not the LS6. The LY6 was used in 2007 and 2008 in the 2500HD's and some vans. I picked it up on Ebay as a complete pull out. Everything came with it that attached to the motor, except the tranny. It cost about $2100 shipped. It puts out about 353 hp stock and with a tune and headers, I'm running a little over 400 hp. It's an awesome motor.
I wanted to leave the tranny exactly where it was, so I got adjustable motor mounts from Dirty Dingos. It cost a little more, but offered a lot more flexibility. I could not use the factory BOP TH400, even with an adapter. It only had 3 bolts holding the tranny to the motor. I had a Chevy TH400 from my Chevelle that I used. At least that attached with 5 bolts.
I average about 16 mpg with the TH400 and 2.73 rear gears. I have not tuned it to improve the mileage yet. It's on my list of things to do. If you go with an overdrive, you will definitely be over 20 mpg, easy. I would do better, even with my set up, if I could only keep my foot out of it :-) .
I'll answer any of your questions that I can. My goal was to do the motor for $4k or under. I made some decisions (like headers, aluminum radiator, and a full new exhaust system) that put me a little over my goal. It was worth every penny. The car will run in traffic all day without a hickup. At the drags I pulled a 13.76 at 102.6 mph. Not bad for a 4305 lb car (with me in it) and highway gears. I still have the original motor put aside if I need it.
Tom
I wanted to leave the tranny exactly where it was, so I got adjustable motor mounts from Dirty Dingos. It cost a little more, but offered a lot more flexibility. I could not use the factory BOP TH400, even with an adapter. It only had 3 bolts holding the tranny to the motor. I had a Chevy TH400 from my Chevelle that I used. At least that attached with 5 bolts.
I average about 16 mpg with the TH400 and 2.73 rear gears. I have not tuned it to improve the mileage yet. It's on my list of things to do. If you go with an overdrive, you will definitely be over 20 mpg, easy. I would do better, even with my set up, if I could only keep my foot out of it :-) .
I'll answer any of your questions that I can. My goal was to do the motor for $4k or under. I made some decisions (like headers, aluminum radiator, and a full new exhaust system) that put me a little over my goal. It was worth every penny. The car will run in traffic all day without a hickup. At the drags I pulled a 13.76 at 102.6 mph. Not bad for a 4305 lb car (with me in it) and highway gears. I still have the original motor put aside if I need it.
Tom
You mentioned the manual transmissions are a little tougher, how so, besides having to add new pedals and such?
The rocket 350 the car came with, was it tired? Mine runs pretty well, albeit it does has a weep from the rear main seal. But I want a monster of a car, and a motor and trans rebuild and beef up of the rocket 350 and TH-350 are going to run substantially more than an LS.LY conversion and not have the same streetable manners. And having fuel injection and never having to adjust a carb sounds like a fantastic idea to me.
October 30th, 2012 | 07:01 AM
#8
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 904
From: St Louis, MO
Just an fyi, the iron block truck motors are about 60 lbs more than the aluminum blocks used in vettes, f bodies, gtos, etc. They cost about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the aluminum blocks and are more readily available with low miles. You can also get things like variable valve timing, and all the performance stuff works just as well on the truck motors.
I used an iron block 6.0 LQ9 (400hp with headers and a tune) in my 68 vette. I went with the 5.3 L59 in the 72 442 (22mpg as a DD).
I used an iron block 6.0 LQ9 (400hp with headers and a tune) in my 68 vette. I went with the 5.3 L59 in the 72 442 (22mpg as a DD).
October 30th, 2012 | 10:41 AM
#10
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Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 81
Sorry you had such a hard time catching up with me! I usually go to the cruise nights with my 2 kids. I usually feed them, check out the show and leave without hanging around too long. When the kids get too bored, they're not much fun to be around .
I chose the LY6 because of the reasons that both Gary and Richard mentioned. The LY6 has the same LS3 head casting and valve sizes that the Corvette uses. These heads are the key to the great power. The VVT is also a big help when trying to move a relatively heavy car with crappy gears.
The LY6 uses a truck intake that will not fit under the stock 68 Cutlass hood. The intake on my motor is off of a 2010 Camaro, complete with injectors and rails (Ebay-$300).
I just purchased the motor (63K mile on it) and it came with the factory harness, ecm, all accessories, maf sensor, batter cables, etc.. The original tranny was a 6sp with 4wd, so it wouldn't have worked. If you are pulling one of these from a van, I believe they will have the 4L80E. That would be a good combo if you can find it and will be what I go to if I do an overdrive. I have heard of a couple of people using the 2wd version of the 6L90, but I think it's pretty rare to see in transplants right now. I think there is quite a bit of tunnel surgery that needs to be done to run it. I run aftermarket gauges under the dash because I only had dummy lights in the factory dash. I am contemplating going with the Speedhut gauges in the dash sometime in the future.
If you go with a manual tranny, the hardest part is getting the shifter to come up through the console in the factory location. I run a Tremec in my 66 Chevelle and they are adjustable for various shifter locations. I'm not sure if the T56's are as flexible.
The 350 the car came with had an oil pressure issue at idle and I believe the motor was original, so instead of rebuilding it, I chose to go the LS route. I also ditched the jetaway tranny at the same time. I'm happy with my choice. You could choose just about any LS style 6.0L or 6.2L and be happy. Many folks are getting upwards of 500hp+ out of them. My best advice is to plan out your swap carefully. It is VERY easy to spend a fortune with one of these swaps. I tried to use as much of the original stuff as possible. I put 3000+ miles on it this year, so far, without an issue.
Tom
.I chose the LY6 because of the reasons that both Gary and Richard mentioned. The LY6 has the same LS3 head casting and valve sizes that the Corvette uses. These heads are the key to the great power. The VVT is also a big help when trying to move a relatively heavy car with crappy gears.
The LY6 uses a truck intake that will not fit under the stock 68 Cutlass hood. The intake on my motor is off of a 2010 Camaro, complete with injectors and rails (Ebay-$300).
I just purchased the motor (63K mile on it) and it came with the factory harness, ecm, all accessories, maf sensor, batter cables, etc.. The original tranny was a 6sp with 4wd, so it wouldn't have worked. If you are pulling one of these from a van, I believe they will have the 4L80E. That would be a good combo if you can find it and will be what I go to if I do an overdrive. I have heard of a couple of people using the 2wd version of the 6L90, but I think it's pretty rare to see in transplants right now. I think there is quite a bit of tunnel surgery that needs to be done to run it. I run aftermarket gauges under the dash because I only had dummy lights in the factory dash. I am contemplating going with the Speedhut gauges in the dash sometime in the future.
If you go with a manual tranny, the hardest part is getting the shifter to come up through the console in the factory location. I run a Tremec in my 66 Chevelle and they are adjustable for various shifter locations. I'm not sure if the T56's are as flexible.
The 350 the car came with had an oil pressure issue at idle and I believe the motor was original, so instead of rebuilding it, I chose to go the LS route. I also ditched the jetaway tranny at the same time. I'm happy with my choice. You could choose just about any LS style 6.0L or 6.2L and be happy. Many folks are getting upwards of 500hp+ out of them. My best advice is to plan out your swap carefully. It is VERY easy to spend a fortune with one of these swaps. I tried to use as much of the original stuff as possible. I put 3000+ miles on it this year, so far, without an issue.
Tom
October 31st, 2012 | 02:50 PM
#11
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,452
Just an fyi, the iron block truck motors are about 60 lbs more than the aluminum blocks used in vettes, f bodies, gtos, etc. They cost about 1/2 to 1/3 the price of the aluminum blocks and are more readily available with low miles. You can also get things like variable valve timing, and all the performance stuff works just as well on the truck motors.
I used an iron block 6.0 LQ9 (400hp with headers and a tune) in my 68 vette. I went with the 5.3 L59 in the 72 442 (22mpg as a DD).
I used an iron block 6.0 LQ9 (400hp with headers and a tune) in my 68 vette. I went with the 5.3 L59 in the 72 442 (22mpg as a DD).
Sorry you had such a hard time catching up with me! I usually go to the cruise nights with my 2 kids. I usually feed them, check out the show and leave without hanging around too long. When the kids get too bored, they're not much fun to be around [IMG]file:///C:\Users\JCalocci\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\ 01\clip_image001.gif[/IMG].
I chose the LY6 because of the reasons that both Gary and Richard mentioned. The LY6 has the same LS3 head casting and valve sizes that the Corvette uses. These heads are the key to the great power. The VVT is also a big help when trying to move a relatively heavy car with crappy gears.
The LY6 uses a truck intake that will not fit under the stock 68 Cutlass hood. The intake on my motor is off of a 2010 Camaro, complete with injectors and rails (Ebay-$300).
I just purchased the motor (63K mile on it) and it came with the factory harness, ecm, all accessories, maf sensor, batter cables, etc.. The original tranny was a 6sp with 4wd, so it wouldn't have worked. If you are pulling one of these from a van, I believe they will have the 4L80E. That would be a good combo if you can find it and will be what I go to if I do an overdrive. I have heard of a couple of people using the 2wd version of the 6L90, but I think it's pretty rare to see in transplants right now. I think there is quite a bit of tunnel surgery that needs to be done to run it. I run aftermarket gauges under the dash because I only had dummy lights in the factory dash. I am contemplating going with the Speedhut gauges in the dash sometime in the future.
If you go with a manual tranny, the hardest part is getting the shifter to come up through the console in the factory location. I run a Tremec in my 66 Chevelle and they are adjustable for various shifter locations. I'm not sure if the T56's are as flexible.
The 350 the car came with had an oil pressure issue at idle and I believe the motor was original, so instead of rebuilding it, I chose to go the LS route. I also ditched the jetaway tranny at the same time. I'm happy with my choice. You could choose just about any LS style 6.0L or 6.2L and be happy. Many folks are getting upwards of 500hp+ out of them. My best advice is to plan out your swap carefully. It is VERY easy to spend a fortune with one of these swaps. I tried to use as much of the original stuff as possible. I put 3000+ miles on it this year, so far, without an issue.
Tom
I chose the LY6 because of the reasons that both Gary and Richard mentioned. The LY6 has the same LS3 head casting and valve sizes that the Corvette uses. These heads are the key to the great power. The VVT is also a big help when trying to move a relatively heavy car with crappy gears.
The LY6 uses a truck intake that will not fit under the stock 68 Cutlass hood. The intake on my motor is off of a 2010 Camaro, complete with injectors and rails (Ebay-$300).
I just purchased the motor (63K mile on it) and it came with the factory harness, ecm, all accessories, maf sensor, batter cables, etc.. The original tranny was a 6sp with 4wd, so it wouldn't have worked. If you are pulling one of these from a van, I believe they will have the 4L80E. That would be a good combo if you can find it and will be what I go to if I do an overdrive. I have heard of a couple of people using the 2wd version of the 6L90, but I think it's pretty rare to see in transplants right now. I think there is quite a bit of tunnel surgery that needs to be done to run it. I run aftermarket gauges under the dash because I only had dummy lights in the factory dash. I am contemplating going with the Speedhut gauges in the dash sometime in the future.
If you go with a manual tranny, the hardest part is getting the shifter to come up through the console in the factory location. I run a Tremec in my 66 Chevelle and they are adjustable for various shifter locations. I'm not sure if the T56's are as flexible.
The 350 the car came with had an oil pressure issue at idle and I believe the motor was original, so instead of rebuilding it, I chose to go the LS route. I also ditched the jetaway tranny at the same time. I'm happy with my choice. You could choose just about any LS style 6.0L or 6.2L and be happy. Many folks are getting upwards of 500hp+ out of them. My best advice is to plan out your swap carefully. It is VERY easy to spend a fortune with one of these swaps. I tried to use as much of the original stuff as possible. I put 3000+ miles on it this year, so far, without an issue.
Tom
Do all of the LY6’s have VVT? My car has 3.33 gears in the rear now, but most likely if I undertake this swap, it’d look for a 3.08 posi –rear. 400ish hp to a one legger is going to get me a whole lot of smoke, and no go. Do you have any idea if the 4l80E would bolt in without tunnel surgery? I don’t want to cut the tunnel really under any circumstances.
You still have functional factory gauges in the dash, and installed other aftermarket ones? I could have sworn you had a sun/sunpro tach. Maybe I’m wrong. I like the stock gauges, and would want to try to make them work, even upgrade to a rally pack, if possible? Which Tremec do you have in your Chevelle, a TKO?
Just with preliminary research I can see what you mean by it could cost a fortune. What sort of original stuff did you reuse? Are you talking the rear end and driveshaft, or what?
Did you have to have the ECM reprogramed? Where? How was that all routed in and placed? Did you do all the work yourself, or did you farm it out to someone else? Are you a mechanic by trade?
Sorry for all the questions, kind of like you said, I’m looking for ideas to sort of plan this out in my head(and on paper) before I pull the trigger. I’m sure it was a big undertaking, and sort of trying to figure out if it’s something I’ll be able to do. How long did it take you?
I did do an engine swap in an 88 thunderbird, from a v6 to a v8 a couple years back, I know my way around a toolbox, just trying to determine how bad it really was.
P.S. thanks for the PM, I might just keep asking questions here on CO, because I'm sure others on the board may be interested in different things and may want reference.
October 31st, 2012 | 03:22 PM
#12
72 Olds CS
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,657
October 31st, 2012 | 04:10 PM
#13
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 904
From: St Louis, MO
I'll try a few of these.
All LY6s do have VVT, however, there are several varieties of 6.0 vortec motors that dont. Wikipedia has a prett good summary in the Vortec section. Any of the motors will bolt up to a 4L80. You might look for a 6.0 out of a van, I think most came with the 4L80 and are 2wd. There are big advantages to getting a motor, trans, harness, ecu, pedal/TAC, etc from the same vehicle. Also get all accessories, it saves a lot of money.
As for fitting in an A body, check these threads. There are several chevelles and an Olds with 4L80s with no tunnel mods.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...2-gm-body.html
Factory gauges will work if you use the Olds senders. Tach will work if ecu is programmed right. Mechanical speedo will work if you use Cable X or a 4L80 tail set up for mechanical speedo.
ECU reprogramming is $75 for basics. Farm that out, but if you have any electrical capability, you can mod your own wire harness.
All LY6s do have VVT, however, there are several varieties of 6.0 vortec motors that dont. Wikipedia has a prett good summary in the Vortec section. Any of the motors will bolt up to a 4L80. You might look for a 6.0 out of a van, I think most came with the 4L80 and are 2wd. There are big advantages to getting a motor, trans, harness, ecu, pedal/TAC, etc from the same vehicle. Also get all accessories, it saves a lot of money.
As for fitting in an A body, check these threads. There are several chevelles and an Olds with 4L80s with no tunnel mods.
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...2-gm-body.html
Factory gauges will work if you use the Olds senders. Tach will work if ecu is programmed right. Mechanical speedo will work if you use Cable X or a 4L80 tail set up for mechanical speedo.
ECU reprogramming is $75 for basics. Farm that out, but if you have any electrical capability, you can mod your own wire harness.
Last edited by garys 68; October 31st, 2012 at 04:17 PM.
October 31st, 2012 | 04:22 PM
#14
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 81
I have a 2.73 posi, and it still makes a lot of smoke. 1st gear is useless with the street tires. I put drag radials on it for the strip and it hooked pretty good. I believe the 4L80E will physically fit without any major mods. Driveshaft will need to be shortened and I think the crosmember will need to be mod'ed.
My car did not have factory gauges or tach, still doesn't have a tach.....yet. You may be able to use the ralley pak gauges with some adaptors for the sending units (LS block is metric) or different senders. I have a TKO600 modified by MMR racing in CA.
I used as many factory parts as possible. All the front accessories are stock truck (no A/C yet), the MAF, engine harness, ECM, fuel pump module, battery cables, starter, flexplate, etc are all original GM and came with the motor. I didn't move the tranny, so the driveshaft is original.
The major items I changed were: Intake, motor mounts, headers, plug wires, intake tubing, radiator hose adaptors, LS to TH400 torque converter adaptor.
I modified the factory harnes to stand-alone and reprogrammed the ECM with HP Tuners myself. I had to modify the location of the serpentine belt idler pulley under the Alt to clear the LS3 intake. The whole job is not what I would call hard, just time consuming. You have to have a fair amount of patience. Not everything is a direct fit and may need some massaging. I started in late Novermber and finished at the end of Mar., just working on it 3 times a week, or so.
I'm not a mechanic by trade, but have been a gear head all my life.
Tom
My car did not have factory gauges or tach, still doesn't have a tach.....yet. You may be able to use the ralley pak gauges with some adaptors for the sending units (LS block is metric) or different senders. I have a TKO600 modified by MMR racing in CA.
I used as many factory parts as possible. All the front accessories are stock truck (no A/C yet), the MAF, engine harness, ECM, fuel pump module, battery cables, starter, flexplate, etc are all original GM and came with the motor. I didn't move the tranny, so the driveshaft is original.
The major items I changed were: Intake, motor mounts, headers, plug wires, intake tubing, radiator hose adaptors, LS to TH400 torque converter adaptor.
I modified the factory harnes to stand-alone and reprogrammed the ECM with HP Tuners myself. I had to modify the location of the serpentine belt idler pulley under the Alt to clear the LS3 intake. The whole job is not what I would call hard, just time consuming. You have to have a fair amount of patience. Not everything is a direct fit and may need some massaging. I started in late Novermber and finished at the end of Mar., just working on it 3 times a week, or so.
I'm not a mechanic by trade, but have been a gear head all my life.
Tom
November 7th, 2012 | 11:10 AM
#15
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,452
I have a 2.73 posi, and it still makes a lot of smoke. 1st gear is useless with the street tires. I put drag radials on it for the strip and it hooked pretty good. I believe the 4L80E will physically fit without any major mods. Driveshaft will need to be shortened and I think the crosmember will need to be mod'ed.
My car did not have factory gauges or tach, still doesn't have a tach.....yet. You may be able to use the ralley pak gauges with some adaptors for the sending units (LS block is metric) or different senders. I have a TKO600 modified by MMR racing in CA.
My car did not have factory gauges or tach, still doesn't have a tach.....yet. You may be able to use the ralley pak gauges with some adaptors for the sending units (LS block is metric) or different senders. I have a TKO600 modified by MMR racing in CA.
I used as many factory parts as possible. All the front accessories are stock truck (no A/C yet), the MAF, engine harness, ECM, fuel pump module, battery cables, starter, flexplate, etc are all original GM and came with the motor. I didn't move the tranny, so the driveshaft is original.
The major items I changed were: Intake, motor mounts, headers, plug wires, intake tubing, radiator hose adaptors, LS to TH400 torque converter adaptor.
I modified the factory harnes to stand-alone and reprogrammed the ECM with HP Tuners myself. I had to modify the location of the serpentine belt idler pulley under the Alt to clear the LS3 intake. The whole job is not what I would call hard, just time consuming. You have to have a fair amount of patience. Not everything is a direct fit and may need some massaging. I started in late Novermber and finished at the end of Mar., just working on it 3 times a week, or so.
I'm not a mechanic by trade, but have been a gear head all my life.
Tom
The major items I changed were: Intake, motor mounts, headers, plug wires, intake tubing, radiator hose adaptors, LS to TH400 torque converter adaptor.
I modified the factory harnes to stand-alone and reprogrammed the ECM with HP Tuners myself. I had to modify the location of the serpentine belt idler pulley under the Alt to clear the LS3 intake. The whole job is not what I would call hard, just time consuming. You have to have a fair amount of patience. Not everything is a direct fit and may need some massaging. I started in late Novermber and finished at the end of Mar., just working on it 3 times a week, or so.
I'm not a mechanic by trade, but have been a gear head all my life.
Tom
Was there an aftermarket bracket to relocate the serpentine belt idler? Anything else big you can think of that wasn’t pretty much bolt it? Things that took “massaging”? Can you explain a little bit about what you had to do with the harness to make it standalone? Did you have to buy the software from HP Tuners, or did you know someone who had it? Did you use the VCM suite? I don’t know anything about tuning, so I’m guessing it’d have to send that to someone. What did you change as far as parameters from the stock tune? I know a tune on my DD, would change redline, bump the timing a few degrees, and so forth. Were you re-programming A/F ratios through the rpm range, etc?
The Th-400 in the car now, was it rebuilt? Was it a “beefed-up” rebuild? Do you have a build thread on any forum where you posted progress and so forth?
November 8th, 2012 | 03:07 AM
#16
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 904
From: St Louis, MO
My $0,02
Go with the 95 impala/caprice baffled/sumped tank with the intank racetronix pump.
Dirty Dingo and a few others make the pulley relocation kit.
LT1swap.com has all the info you'll need to rework your harness.
The software to do your own tuning is about $700. You can have someone do the basic stuff for under $100. If you're not doing a radical cam or lots of performance mods, have someone else do it.
Go with the 95 impala/caprice baffled/sumped tank with the intank racetronix pump.
Dirty Dingo and a few others make the pulley relocation kit.
LT1swap.com has all the info you'll need to rework your harness.
The software to do your own tuning is about $700. You can have someone do the basic stuff for under $100. If you're not doing a radical cam or lots of performance mods, have someone else do it.
November 8th, 2012 | 11:51 AM
#17
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,452
My $0,02
Go with the 95 impala/caprice baffled/sumped tank with the intank racetronix pump.
Dirty Dingo and a few others make the pulley relocation kit.
LT1swap.com has all the info you'll need to rework your harness.
The software to do your own tuning is about $700. You can have someone do the basic stuff for under $100. If you're not doing a radical cam or lots of performance mods, have someone else do it.
Go with the 95 impala/caprice baffled/sumped tank with the intank racetronix pump.
Dirty Dingo and a few others make the pulley relocation kit.
LT1swap.com has all the info you'll need to rework your harness.
The software to do your own tuning is about $700. You can have someone do the basic stuff for under $100. If you're not doing a radical cam or lots of performance mods, have someone else do it.
November 8th, 2012 | 12:32 PM
#18
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 904
From: St Louis, MO
I did my own harness too. Easiest way is to label the connectors, then unwrap about a mile of tape. First remove all the stuff you dont need and that wiring. Then ID the grounds, switched, and full time 12V wires, solder them together. I then put the harness on the motor, out of the car and routed all the wires. You'll need to add wiring for gauges. I used weatherpack connectors for the connection to the existing harness and gauge wiring. It goes in as part of the engine and then just plug it in.
November 8th, 2012 | 01:04 PM
#19
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 81
Gary's suggestion for the fuel pump/tank may be your best bet. I got the truck fuel pump module with my motor, so I modified a stock tank for it. I think I posted pics of it in CutLS's thread.
If you are comfortable with doing the wiring work, you can save yourself some $$. It isn't a hard job, but it takes a lot of time (10+ hours) when you add it all up. I bought the software from HP Tuners. You can have someone do the tune for you, but I wanted to do it myself. I didn't know much about EFI tuning when I started, either. I had to change quite a bit in the ECM including changing the parameters for the new Camaro injectors, removing all the torque limits, tune the MAF, timing maps, etc. There is some good tuning info here (for Gen IV) http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=20813
The Th-400 in the my car now was rebuilt by me. It has all the heavy duty clutches and bands, as well as I believe a HD direct drum with the 34 element roller and a shift kit. I did not do a build thread for my car. I spent most of my free time working on it, which left little time for documenting the build.
If you are comfortable with doing the wiring work, you can save yourself some $$. It isn't a hard job, but it takes a lot of time (10+ hours) when you add it all up. I bought the software from HP Tuners. You can have someone do the tune for you, but I wanted to do it myself. I didn't know much about EFI tuning when I started, either. I had to change quite a bit in the ECM including changing the parameters for the new Camaro injectors, removing all the torque limits, tune the MAF, timing maps, etc. There is some good tuning info here (for Gen IV) http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=20813
The Th-400 in the my car now was rebuilt by me. It has all the heavy duty clutches and bands, as well as I believe a HD direct drum with the 34 element roller and a shift kit. I did not do a build thread for my car. I spent most of my free time working on it, which left little time for documenting the build.
November 8th, 2012 | 07:50 PM
#20
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,452
I did my own harness too. Easiest way is to label the connectors, then unwrap about a mile of tape. First remove all the stuff you dont need and that wiring. Then ID the grounds, switched, and full time 12V wires, solder them together. I then put the harness on the motor, out of the car and routed all the wires. You'll need to add wiring for gauges. I used weatherpack connectors for the connection to the existing harness and gauge wiring. It goes in as part of the engine and then just plug it in.
Gary's suggestion for the fuel pump/tank may be your best bet. I got the truck fuel pump module with my motor, so I modified a stock tank for it. I think I posted pics of it in CutLS's thread.
If you are comfortable with doing the wiring work, you can save yourself some $$. It isn't a hard job, but it takes a lot of time (10+ hours) when you add it all up. I bought the software from HP Tuners. You can have someone do the tune for you, but I wanted to do it myself. I didn't know much about EFI tuning when I started, either. I had to change quite a bit in the ECM including changing the parameters for the new Camaro injectors, removing all the torque limits, tune the MAF, timing maps, etc. There is some good tuning info here (for Gen IV) http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=20813
If you are comfortable with doing the wiring work, you can save yourself some $$. It isn't a hard job, but it takes a lot of time (10+ hours) when you add it all up. I bought the software from HP Tuners. You can have someone do the tune for you, but I wanted to do it myself. I didn't know much about EFI tuning when I started, either. I had to change quite a bit in the ECM including changing the parameters for the new Camaro injectors, removing all the torque limits, tune the MAF, timing maps, etc. There is some good tuning info here (for Gen IV) http://forum.grrrr8.net/showthread.php?t=20813
The Th-400 in the my car now was rebuilt by me. It has all the heavy duty clutches and bands, as well as I believe a HD direct drum with the 34 element roller and a shift kit. I did not do a build thread for my car. I spent most of my free time working on it, which left little time for documenting the build.
November 8th, 2012 | 09:00 PM
#21
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,145
From: Far Northeast Philadelphia, PA
I've been debating looking to get the drive line overhauled. It just doesn't put out what I want, albeit it runs really well. Custom "crate" turn keys oldsmobile 350's are running close to $7,000 for the motor alone, and local shops want dang near $3000 for a stock rebuild. The LS route, I can get 350hp+ easy, with a transmission too, for $4000, new, with a 24 month warranty. It's looking appealing.
November 9th, 2012 | 06:12 AM
#22
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 81
I know my father traded a chevy TH-350 trans a few years back for a 5 speed manual setup, I don't know what it was out of, but I was going to explore that to see if it's feasible for my project. The overdrive gear would certainly be nice, even if the swap becomes a little more complicated, having to add in pedals and so forth.
Best advice I can give is to research your conversion to death. There are a lot of little things to be aware of and they will all depend on what motor you end up choosing and how much you get with it (cable or drive by wire, reluctor count, accessory drives, etc). I wouldn't expect it to be much cheaper, if at all, than doing the stock 350 over. The cost will likely be close. But, the LS will perform better (stock vs. stock) and have better drivability and mileage.
Tom
Last edited by TRW; November 9th, 2012 at 06:14 AM.
November 19th, 2012 | 01:06 AM
#23
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,203
From: USA
Glad to hear that. I've been looking to hear what people were getting out of this motor.
I also bought a 2008 LY6 for my 1970 442 clone.
It's my 2nd LS swap, and I'm using a 3.73 gear with a T-56 6 speed manual.
Didn't get to finish it this summer because I moved.
2013 I'll be done though. I'd love to get a copy of that tune!!!
I'm going to be using the Edelbrock stainless steel A-body headers.
I also bought a 2008 LY6 for my 1970 442 clone.
It's my 2nd LS swap, and I'm using a 3.73 gear with a T-56 6 speed manual.
Didn't get to finish it this summer because I moved.
2013 I'll be done though. I'd love to get a copy of that tune!!!
I'm going to be using the Edelbrock stainless steel A-body headers.
November 19th, 2012 | 03:23 PM
#24
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 81
Hi Aceshigh, I was wondering where you went. Sorry to hear about your Summer. I'm glad to see you getting back at it. You were the one that originally talked me into getting the LY6 back in July of 2011. I went with your advice and have no regrets. I had it out today and it was 28 degrees this morning (had to keep the top up though ). I'll send you a PM also.
Tom
). I'll send you a PM also.Tom
November 19th, 2012 | 04:56 PM
#25
72 Olds CS
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,657
I saw a guy out today w the top down on his (cor) vette (not to be confused with (chev) vette)
it was a later in the day so it was up to ~40 ish degrees...he did have all the windows up tho
(also in mass)
November 20th, 2012 | 12:16 AM
#26
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,203
From: USA
Nothing wrong with staying Olds if that's what's your thing but......
There's so much more potential in these modern LS motors and for far less invested cost
Obviously now as an owner you're able to realize that yourself.
Welcome to the LS club.
I got your emails, thanks again. Hope I can finish too now.
November 20th, 2012 | 10:17 AM
#27
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 81
Tom
November 21st, 2012 | 12:05 PM
#28
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,452
Money is not the biggest object here, I don't have an endless amount, but I have a little put away. An oldsmobile engine form the 70's can not be made to do what one of these LS motors will, and have streetability, it just can't.
My car is a plain, run of the mill, cutlass "S", with the small factory addition of bucket seats and console. Not a high dollar or highly desireable car. It's the perfect car to do a swap like this to. I wouldn't cut up a 442, because that was a rare, valuable car. I'll keep the original motor and trans to put back in if I ever choose, but at 22, I want a "race car" that I can drive 1000 miles and not have to stop at every gas station. I'll end up upgrading the brakes and so forth down the line, when those parts wear out. Brakes have come a long way in 30 years, why not upgrade? This car, will probably be worth more with a LS motor, besides, it'll be turn key, no tweaking ever needed. And it'll be a rocket ship. If olds had crate motors with Fuel Injection, it'd consider it.
If you get an LY6, I'll give you my tune, but you will likely still have to tune the MAF to match your specific intake arrangement. Honestly, If I had the spare time, I'd tune the car for you for no cost, just because I like doing it and being able to help. This part would probably not be too expensive to have done at a chassis dyno shop by a tuner. I can't imagine getting the MAF tuned right would take more than a couple of hours.
If my Cutlass had a 5 speed and better rear gear, it would be quite a performer for a near stock motor. I may go to an overdrive tranny sometime in the future. It's hard to justify the conversion cost ($2500+). The break even point based on fuel savings, will probably be longer than I own it. It cruises pretty well on the highway as is. Eighty mph is about 2800 rpm, which isn't too bad. But, that would be about 2000 rpm with an OD.
Best advice I can give is to research your conversion to death. There are a lot of little things to be aware of and they will all depend on what motor you end up choosing and how much you get with it (cable or drive by wire, reluctor count, accessory drives, etc). I wouldn't expect it to be much cheaper, if at all, than doing the stock 350 over. The cost will likely be close. But, the LS will perform better (stock vs. stock) and have better drivability and mileage.
Tom
Best advice I can give is to research your conversion to death. There are a lot of little things to be aware of and they will all depend on what motor you end up choosing and how much you get with it (cable or drive by wire, reluctor count, accessory drives, etc). I wouldn't expect it to be much cheaper, if at all, than doing the stock 350 over. The cost will likely be close. But, the LS will perform better (stock vs. stock) and have better drivability and mileage.
Tom
December 4th, 2012 | 06:57 PM
#30
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,141
From: Dallas-Fort Worth
I'm an old "Olds" motor guy ( gives you my intelligence level) however quick question will a highly modified 200R4 work with a LS swap? You guys got me thinking for later on my 64 F-85 pro-touring build.
December 4th, 2012 | 11:49 PM
#31
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 904
From: St Louis, MO
Unless you've already got a modified 200R4, you're better off with an electronic controlled trans that came with the motor, 4L60, 4L80, etc.
You're also limited to older cable throttle body motors in order to hook up the TV cable on the 200R4.
You're also limited to older cable throttle body motors in order to hook up the TV cable on the 200R4.
December 5th, 2012 | 05:34 AM
#32
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 81
If you have your heart set on running the 200R4, I'm sure you can modify the TV cable to run directly off of the gas pedal. Since I'm running a electronic throttle with my TH400, I needed to connect a down shift switch to the pedal. I made some brackets and made it work. The 200R4 will be a little more critical of the set up. It will need to be planned out carefully. I'm sure it can be done. Like Gary said, if you don't already have the tranny, it may not be worth the effort.
December 6th, 2012 | 01:21 AM
#34
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,203
From: USA
http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-...0r4-4l60e.html
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...on_swap_gen_3/
TV Cable info
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...700r4-ls1.html
LS1Swap011.jpg
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...on_swap_gen_3/
TV Cable info
http://ls1tech.com/forums/conversion...700r4-ls1.html
LS1Swap011.jpg
Last edited by Aceshigh; December 6th, 2012 at 01:27 AM.
December 6th, 2012 | 07:13 AM
#36
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 904
From: St Louis, MO
If you cant find anything local, I bought both my LS motors off ebay auctions that expired without offers. I emailed lowball offers and both took them.
Shipping was under $100 to a local freight terminal. One even got to me overnight.
Shipping was under $100 to a local freight terminal. One even got to me overnight.
December 6th, 2012 | 07:07 PM
#38
72 Olds CS
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,657
JPC
there was a complete 6l engine trans comp stand alone set -up on NH CL last week 3500....
http://nh.craigslist.org/pts/3443647749.html
there was a complete 6l engine trans comp stand alone set -up on NH CL last week 3500....
http://nh.craigslist.org/pts/3443647749.html
December 7th, 2012 | 07:09 AM
#39
Thread Starter
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,452
JPC
there was a complete 6l engine trans comp stand alone set -up on NH CL last week 3500....
http://nh.craigslist.org/pts/3443647749.html
there was a complete 6l engine trans comp stand alone set -up on NH CL last week 3500....
http://nh.craigslist.org/pts/3443647749.html
December 11th, 2012 | 02:09 AM
#40
Registered User
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,203
From: USA
My 1st: LS1/4L60e (26K) I bought was in 2006 from a 2004 GTO via Ebay for $4500.
Prices were a bit steeper back then for the LS1's.
My 2nd: LY6 I bought via Car-Part in 2011 for only $1850 plus the accessories for $300.
T56 I got from Texas separately.
Prices were a bit steeper back then for the LS1's.
My 2nd: LY6 I bought via Car-Part in 2011 for only $1850 plus the accessories for $300.
T56 I got from Texas separately.
