elguapo

hi all,


new here, just bought me an olds cutlass '71, wanted to register it,
but here in Belgium I was declined because the vin number on the dash isn't official.
they have to find it on the chassis, somebody who knows where I can find visible vin number without taking the body off?


this is hell from me, tought I would ride the ride this week, but as far as it looks now, I maybe never ride this car.


looked up on the internet, but nothing found to help me.


greetzz

elguapo

hi all,


new here, just bought me an olds cutlass '71, wanted to register it,
but here in Belgium I was declined because the vin number on the dash isn't official.
they have to find it on the chassis, somebody who knows where I can find visible vin number without taking the body off?


this is hell from me, tought I would ride the ride this week, but as far as it looks now, I maybe never ride this car.


looked up on the internet, but nothing found to help me.


greetzz

elguapo

or can I use the cowl tag to verify the vin?

vette442

There is no correlation between the cowl tag and VIN, so that won't help. What was wrong with the VIN plate on the dash? Has it been replaced for some reason or is it missing? The other VIN stampings on the frame will be hard to get to.

Terry

elguapo

Terry,


apparently here in great Belgium the vin number on the dash isn't enough.


they want a id-plate or a visible vin number on the frame


can you imagine..?


so now I'm looking for a matchin vin on the chassis, or a hidden id-plate, otherwis I don't know what I'll must do

Allan R

You can find the VIN derivative on the engine block and transmission. The frame also has the VIN derivative stamped onto it, but you'd have to lift the body on the right side to see that. Here are a few links that show what you've asked about. BTW, why isn't the VIN on the dash considered official? It is in the USA, Canada, GB, Australia, France, Germany, etc. That's the proper registration of the car as it came off the production line, just as new cars are now. If the 'officials' are questioning why it doesn't have enough numbers/letters, that's because in 1971 there were only 13 in the VIN - period.

Clik on these links:

VIN numbers stamped on frame

Engine VIN derivative stampings

Stamping pad location
P1010412.jpg

TH350 stamping location
P1010155.jpg

elguapo

Allan,


Belgium is then a bit suspicious I suppose, but I find also not done.


the olds I bought is entirely Original (besides a new paint job) and still I can't get through inspection


will try to look at the places according to the links, but I have no lift for my car or a pit


thanx for the advice
but really I feel awful at this moment.

vette442

Don't despair. Every U.S.-made car of this era would have the same problems with registration, and I'm sure people are not lifting bodies off of frames. Do you know other classic American car owners there? If so, what did they have to do? I see vintage American cars in Poland, the Netherlands, and other places when I'm overseas so I know they are on the road.

I'll check the archives on the Corvette Forum - I know there are Belgians with old Stingrays on that site.

RandyS

I would take it up the chain of command until you get someone that is reasonable. That is the official Vin #.

elguapo

I can look for numbers on the engine, but that isn't enough for inspection. they want a vin number seen on the frame but that's not possible. so there aren't any vin numbers to check, similar with the one one the dash? I also suspect I had an encounter with somebody who had a bad day and needed work it out..

elguapo

think you are right, Randy..

nj67

If the car was manufactured without a visible vin on frame can you just add a plate with vin for inspection or does it need to be from factory.

Mark57

Can he send away for the build documents that would show the VIN with the engine and trans numbers matching the build sheet? I know that here in Canada we can get the info right back into the 50's for cars built here.

Mark

Allan R

Some bad news about the frame - it will only have the same VIN derivative as the engine and trans.

That's only available for cars manufactured IN Canada or specifically exported to the Canadian market for original sale. If he has a Lansing car, he's pooched because they don't have build sheets anywhere in the car. Other plants (especially Freemont and Arlington) left them in the car either under carpeting, under seats or on top of gas tanks.

I honestly believe that the encounter with one employee having a bad day is the problem. Likely someone with experience higher up will know and understand about the hobbyists.

Check out some of the local vintage car clubs in Belgium and ask how they worked this out. You aren't the first person who bought and imported classic cars.

Fun71

The only thing I know of other than the VIN tag on the dash is the decal on the drivers door. Idiots here were insistent on having that during the initial inspection. Mine was barely hanging on when I painted the car in the '90s - good thing I decided to save it.

classicmuscle442

Smart, would have never thought about that tag, vin is stamped on frame on drivers side about 8 inches behind rear edge of driver door.

Allan R

What is that door tag from? I don't recognize that VIN at all.

steverw

I think that VIN is on a Corvette, similar numerically to my 65 Vette

Texas442

It is on the vertical section of the frame below the drivers door. Very difficult to see without removing the body. Read this:
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...ive-frame.html

Fun71

Correct. It's a picture I randomly grabbed off the 'net to show what I was referring to.

MDchanic

I would like to emphasize what others have said:
Aside from a glued-on door sticker on 1971 (I think) and later cars, the full VIN is in ONE place and ONE place only: the dashboard tag.
There are confidential VIN-derivatives on the frame in nearly-invisible places, but these are NOT the entire VIN, and so are probably NOT useful for registering the car.

You do not need to waste your time looking for frame numbers, as they will not be the full VIN.

Talk to other owners of American cars, find the person in charge who is competent, or else hire a lawyer.

- Eric

4speed455

The door sticker is reproduced. Somebody on here had a typewriter that matched the original font. He offerd to add your info to the new tags.

When I brought my car from out of state it had to be inspected. The dmv said because the sticker on the door was missing I had to take it to the highway patrol. The cop who inspected looked at the cowl tag wrote some stuff down and passed it.

If I were you I would order a new door tag and have your vin and build date added to it. Then take it back and see if you get a different guy. Good luck.

joe_padavano

To summarize what others have posted here:

1) The VIN on the dash is the ONLY metallic tag with the complete VIN on the entire car. Period.

2) The decal on the door also has the complete VIN. As others have noted, you can get repros with whatever number you want. How this helps "prove" the VIN of the car is a mystery to me.

3) ALL the other stampings on the car are VIN derivatives. These are partial nine-character identifiers (the full VIN is 13 characters). The VIN derivative is located on the block, trans, and frame.

jensenracing77

New cars have a 17 digit VIN. These old cars only have 13. I wonder if they understand that and what the chances are that is the hold up with them. I don't know your laws but here in the USA we only need the VIN on the dash and title to match up.

joe_padavano

I'm going to guess that the person who is failing the VIN tag on this car wasn't even born when the car was new.

Also, I've merged the two identical threads. It is not necessary nor desirable to post the same question in multiple forums. By keeping all the responses in one thread, any incorrect information that gets posted is more likely to be caught and corrected.

rustyroger

In the UK there are a couple of American car clubs that offer help with registering cars, and are recognised by our vehicle registry (DVLA). Do you have anything similar in Belgium?.
I would think that under EU law, if you can register a car in one member country you should be able to do so in any other. Germany has tough registration requirements, but there are plenty of old American cars there.


Roger.

elguapo

thanx to all that replied to this question, glad to see that so many people wants to help this unfortunate Belgian olds lover! conclusion for the moment is that I will hand over my car to a car restorator, and he will try to get me trough inspection.. rustyroger has also a point, and I checked it, only in Belgium this idiotic rule concerning vins counts. Germany agrees on the vin on the dash. will keep you all posted with more news.

oldspackrat

Eric(MD),
I have seen the glued on door sticker on '70 cars also for sure. I don't know if that was the first year for it though?

elguapo

thanx all for the replies!


contacted GM, they sent me an identification plate for the car.


got it through inspection last week.


grtzz

oldcutlass

Glad to hear you found a solution. Do you have a picture of what they sent you?

MDchanic

Never heard of such a thing.

Was this GM Europe or GM in the US?

Got a picture?

- Eric

jankyrre

In Norway and probably elsewhere in Europe it is like this: If the car has separate frame,the frame is considered as the car.The body is just a bolt on part.Why? Dont ask me or anybody else for that matter.The answere you will get is that this is just the way it is.
Before the first inspection we have to punch the VIN into the frame on a visible location in the front.We can do this ourself.
Does this make sense?