So I've been offered the chance to purchase a 1970 442, which is a car I have been looking at for a while. But, seeing as I am several thousand miles away from it, I could use a little help trying to determine what it is worth (asking 12k). Here's what the seller has told me about it:

- No exhaust
- Newly rebuild engine (has only ran on idle, isn't timed due to no exhaust)
- AC car (but the components aren't there)
- Power steering, power brakes and posi rear end

The first pics I got were from 07 (first 4) and 13 (next 2), which made me slightly sceptical, but I got a bunch later from just a few days ago.

Easiest way to show you all the pictures is via dropbox folder

 

12K seems high for that car. First, that's apparently not the original engine. Obviously the gold paint isn't correct for a 455, but I can't tell if that's a "B" on the head or an "8". The oil fill tube is a 1967-earlier style, which would be consistent with a 1966 motor and the "B" heads. I'm also very worried about a "newly rebuilt" motor that's only been idled. The first thing you need to do on starting a rebuild is to run it at about 2000 RPM for 20 min or so to break in the cam. If that was not done, the cam may be damaged (especially with today's low-zinc oil).

I do see power disc brakes and a cruise control transducer, but the master cylinder looks rusty and wet, which is not a good sign. This is not an A/C car, as the vents in the dash are non-A/C vents, and the box on the firewall is a heater-only box. This statement from the seller would make me ask what other things has he told you that are incorrect. I also see missing trim at the base of the vinyl top, and the car has been repainted (as evidenced by the gold under the vinyl top and the non-factory stripes) which always begs the question, how much rust and bondo is underneath. The cowl tag does indicate that it's a real 442, built the second week of Jan, 1970.

I would want a very detailed examination of the body for evidence of rust or repair and I would put the value in the current condition at $8K or less, depending on the condition of the engine and the sheet metal. This car still needs a lot of work.

 

Thanks a bunch for a detailed reply!

I did ask about the engine, and was told it has been run on high zinc oil, and I've also considered 8k as the top, but... blowing well over half my savings on a car that could very well ruin me is starting to sound less appealing by the minute, and it seems you're even more sceptical than me. Seeing as there's no way I could do a proper inspection of the car I get the feeling I should pass on it and keep looking. It just sounded so alluring with a real 442 with a fresh engine...

 

Let me put this to you in simple terms. Walk away & keep looking. This is not the car.


Good luck in your search.

 

Easy to see on the magnifier, it's a B on the heads.

Not to mention the alternator is on the right side instead of the left side where an AC car would have it.

Also noted that various pieces such as tail lights were left lying under the car? This isn't someone who is paying attention to details. Looks more like a cosmetic paint job to sell it.

The SSIII wheels would be correct, but note also in the trunk there's no clips that are used to hold the jack handle to the upper trunk lip area. The trunk lamp is also mounted totally wrong and won't work as it sits. Too many things that make me think 'keep on walking' unless he lowers the price to around 6k

 

It's a shame another 442 missing it's motor, numbers matching is the only way I would gamble even 10K I did something similar bought a 72 Cutlass on a story and a couple pictures 2500 miles away. Only paid 5K though after owner had it listed for $9500. Turns out car is in pretty good shape I did pretty good. Offer 6K see what happens explain to him the long list of wrongs, (see above) maybe catch him in a lie or two & who knows. He might really need the cash. Gives you another 6K to fix it up. If not what's his number lol

 

All I can say is, you really can't buy a car on the strength of photographs. Regardless of what any of us tell you, if you can't inspect it yourself or get somebody you can really trust to look at it, best to give it a miss.

 

Thanks a bunch for the replies, guys, you're the best. I've declined the offer, and yes, I know only using pictures and a conversation with the seller is far from ideal, but I don't really have a choice, apart from a paid inspection from someone, I suppose.

 

Stayed tuned right here people are constantly posting links of some pretty good deals, as well as our own classifieds. Take your time enjoy it, I think the search is half the fun. Your gut will tell you when it's right. Obviously if your on the fence about a certain car (preferably Olds) there's a bunch of real good guys here that can help. Good luck.

 

Given your distance, that would be money well spent, especially since you're looking at shipment costs as well as purchase price. In your case, buy the most complete, original car you can afford, since parts availability in your part of the world will be a lot more difficult and expensive.

 

Yeah, I actually took a look and it seems that they're "only" about 400 dollars. Which doesn't look bad next to the 1.5-2k I'll need just to get it shipped here.

 

I'll remember that, I'm actually stunned by how helpful you've all been on this site. Massive thumbs up!

I agree, too, I've enjoyed most of the time spent chasing already

 

Posting this one here since I'd rather not flood the forum with new threads everywhere.

What does the various packages include and mean? W30, W31, W29 etc etc, haven't found a place that explains it easily.

Also, what does it mean when a vehicle is descriped as post? (As in post coupe)

 

W-30 -- a high performance big block engine/drivetrain option available on 442s from 1966 through 1975 (although it did make a few sporadic appearances after that).

W-31 -- a high-performance small block engine/drivetrain option on the F-85/Cutlass line from 1968-70.

W-29 -- is the basic option code for a 442.

"Post" is a bodystyle that incorporates a B-pillar (post) between framed front and rear windows. Can be either 2 or 4 doors. As opposed to a "hardtop" which has neither a B-pillar nor window frames.

 

W-whatever, and indeed "442" definition varies from year to year. Each is different. In GENERAL:
F85 is the low budget entry cheap car like a Cutlass. Rare. For good reason.

Cutlass is a glorified F85

442 is a much glorified Cutlass, typically big block, if of the era.
W29 is usually the RPO for the 442 pkg

W30 is a glorified 442, with L69 tri-carb being the 1966 only version.
W31 is a small block W30. Not to be discounted or glossed over.

There are a few other W-## RPO's, lesser known.
W-27 Aluminum Center Section rear end
W-36 1968 fender stripe
etc.

Cannot comment on your dropbox due to 401 error, no longer available.

Do not buy ANY car 1000's of miles away w/o an impartial in-person inspection. That would be crazy.

"Post" coupe has an obvious post between the front and rear side windows, and the front door's window has a full frame around it. Typically the door will have a vent widow even if the Holiday coupe did not- though all '68 A-body models have wing windows I believe.

 

Actually the W30 (455) was till 1976. The 455 never was never offered from the factory in a W30 after 1976.

After that?? No real 442's of any nature to speak of. The 79 and 80 models were the last ones I can think of off hand that wore the W30 badging, although they only had the R code 350 engine.

 

I know an exporter here in the States with experience shipping cars overseas.

 

Thanks, it's a confusing jungle of labels out there. Holiday coupes, sport coupes (which I assume are "fastbacks") and whatnot. I asked if a car had A/C once and he replied that it was impossible to order A/C with the specific package that car had (69 W32), also happened once with a 71 W30. Is this true?

 

Doesn't hurt to take a look, anywhere I could get in touch?

 

Sorry, but you assume incorrectly. Let's start again:

Holiday Coupe is Olds-speak for a 2dr hardtop body style. This could be either the "fastback" style (Cutlass, 442) or the "notchback" style (Cutlass Supreme). Sport Coupe is Olds-speak for a 2dr post car.

These are all Holiday Coupes:









These are Sport Coupes:









As for the various RPO codes like W-30, W-31, etc, there are books about this. The availability of or lack of available options with these packages varied from year-to-year and describing them all will take more time than we have at the moment. Suffice to say that there are many more "W-30" cars on the road today than Olds ever built, so if you plan to spend serious money on one, or even on a 442, spend the time to get educated first. Second, find a very trusted representative who can inspect the car for you. There is a lot of overpriced crap on the market and a lot of less than honest sellers. Unfortunately, Barrett Jackson and the like have convinced every seller that their P.O.S. is worth a million bucks. The fact that you are asking these questions now is a good thing. Good luck with your search.

 

Just PM me for more information.
He's licensed here in Alabama. I've used his service to arrange bonded auto transport for car I bought in another state. He also buys and ships cars overseas for others.

 

Cheers, Joe! Makes much more sense now. I figure the right car will come along as long as I remain patient, in the meantime I might as well learn enough to understand when the seller is lying straight to my face.

 

Exactly!
I investigate cars all the time in order to better understand the market as well as to practice negotiating with sellers. But you'll also need to study the car of your dream just a little more so you'll know better what to look for and what to ask. I've been buying cars for three years now and I still consider myself a novice.

Also study your country's import requirements as well as the requirements for exporting cars out of the U.S.. I'd hate to see you buy a car and then run into issues bringing it home. Some countries have severe restrictions on what can be imported and by whom.

Good Luck!

 

Been researching pretty much everything on what I need back home. The rules here are far more lenient on pre-71 cars, so that alone narrows my selection down a bit.

Thanks!

 

Others here have imported US cars to Europe. The recurring issue seems to be that authorities want to see a second VIN on the frame or elsewhere to verify the car has not been stolen. Unfortunately, these people are apparently not old enough to understand that cars this old don't have two complete VINs, only the full VIN on the tag and several partial VIN derivative stamps (and only 1968-up have the VIN derivative on the block and trans). Of course, if the engine, trans, or frame has been changed, that VIN derivative is lost.

 

From what I understand this shouldn't be an issue, but I'll definitely keep it in mind should a bump like that occur.

 

Yes, the '79 and '80 cars are the ones I was thinking of. I should have pointed out that these were SBO variants. Didn't know there was a 455 W-30 available in '76. Thanks, Allan.