Just brought home a 1972 Olds Cutlass Supreme with 442 rear bumper and hood. Restoring as a driver for my son. Going to need a driver side fender and front bumper...car is in awesome shape...Georgia car...no rust. Wondering if anyone can decode all my numbers?
Serial# 3J57K2R140561
ST72.....34257LAN395253....TR 979.....53F....93A....A51...B85...


We are going to do a 442...black interior, Matador Red with Black stripes...


The 350 has been cam'd,...new flowmaster 40 dual exhaust, aluminum intake, edelbrock 4bl carb...Moser engineering rear end, Ford 9" with GM outer hubs....B&M slap shifter...


Thanks, Jeff...

 

This is a perfect example of why we always suggest that you post a clear photo of the tag and not try to copy down what it says. You have errors here, and where the numbers appear on the tag can mean as much as what they are.

3 = Oldsmobile
42 = Cutlass Supreme
57 = Hardtop Coupe (2 door hardtop)
LAN = built at Lansing, Michigan. The six digit number after this has no meaning.

"53F" is probably actually 53 F with a clear space between them, and they are way over to the right next to the word PNT or PAINT, correct?

53 = lower body color = Saturn Gold

F = vinyl top color = Saddle Tan

"93A" is probably wrong as this should be the build date code with the number part being something between 01 and 12. I'm guessing it's not 93A but rather 03A, and that would indicate a build date of the first week (A) of March (03) 1972

TR 979 = Saddle Vinyl seat cover
A51 = front bucket seat
B85 = belt reveal molding


As far as the "serial" number, no one calls it a serial number! You gotta know the lingo! It's a Vehicle Identification Number, or VIN.

Yours is interesting because it disagrees with your body cowl tag. The VIN decodes as a 1972 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme 2-door hardtop with a 350 V8 4-bbl built at Arlington, Texas.

So your body tag says the car was built at Lansing, while the VIN says it was built at Arlington. Unless either the cowl or VIN tag was replaced, I don't know what to make of this. Maybe someone else will have an explanation. The VIN would have an "M" in the location where the "R" is for a Lansing-built car.

Post some photos of this car.

 

Looks like the one that was on Pittsburgh Craigslist northeast of the city. Glad to hear it's rust free. The pics in the ad were too crappy to be able to tell. Good luck with your build!

Terry

P.s.: if the original saddle tan rubber floor mats came with the car and you are switching to black, I'd be happy to buy them from you!

 

Welcome to C.O.! I would agree with what jaunty has said post a picture of the VIN and cowl tag. IMHO you purchased the wrong car to clone a 442, you have a supreme hard top, if it was a drop top or if you were going for a hurst than yes. But it is your car!

 

Yes it is the one from Leechburg...I was not expecting much when we went to look at it. He would have done himself a favor by taking out of the garage and cleaning it up before posting pics! There were no floor mats in car, sorry.

 

I posted a photo album "1972 in PA" under the albums...not sure if that's where it was supposed to go. I put pictures of cowl tag and VIN.

 

FYI, Olds never made a 442 on the Supreme hardtop body style. Of course, it's your car so you can certainly do whatever you want. The 72 H/O DID use that body, however.

 

I just looked at your pics in your album. This is not an easy thing to say, but I suspect your car has had the VIN swapped out. Not trying to start a war with this, but the VIN manufacturing plant MUST match the Fisher plant. In your case, it's not happening but the BIGGEST indicator that the VIN has been switched is the Phillips screws holding it in place. That is 100% bogus - GM used rivets to hold the VIN plate. Not to mention the trim plate that goes around the VIN tag is also missing.

Pat, when did you pick up that stunning looking 442? Love the color and stripes. It shows correct detail for a W29

 

Well, thanks for the info. Isn't the VIN stamped in the frame or somewhere else? I have a title with that VIN, not putting this together for show, just a fun daily driver so I guess when I get the bug to do a full on restoration on one of these I need to check into it a little further! Thanks for the info..

 

The entire VIN isn't but the VIN derivative is. Check the engine stamping pad - if it's got the original engine it will start out 32(letter)XXXXXX where the letter will be the original build factory and the X's will match the last six numbers of the VIN plate. If the car is a 350/350 the VIN derivative will also be on the trans (left side) horizontal surface and will match the engine stamping.

Note: The VIN numbers will not match the cowl tag body number. There is also a VIN derivative stamped onto the frame of the car close to the rear axle hump, but I doubt you'll see that without doing a body off.

 

thanks Allen...

 

Allan is 100% correct. The "R" in the seventh position of the VIN tag signifies the Arlington, TX assembly plant, but the cowl tag shows Lansing. The cowl tag rivet appear to be original; the VIN tag phillips head screws clearly are not. Sorry.

 

Can anyone ID the color of this Cutlass? We're considering Sienna, Kashmir Copper and Bittersweet for our restoration, but it's hard to get an accurate depiction of any of these.

 

IF it's an OEM color and from 1972, it would be code 63 - Saddle Bronze. Similarly if it was OEM and 71 it would be code 62 - Bittersweet. You'll have to find out from Pat as he was the guy who originally posted the picture.

Paint is easy to change. Looking through the Paint color charts, I also noted that in 73 there is a nice Mayan Gold - Code 60, and 75 code 64 - Persimmon that are also close. Aside from that, it could also be a special paint blend or a color from one of the other brands/years.

 

Pat, when did you pick up that stunning looking 442? Love the color and stripes. It shows correct detail for a W29[/QUOTE]

Don't tell my wife, she's in Poland with the kids!
Actually I would like take credit for it but I can't Pilfered from the net.
I usually try to get a good and mostly correct representation of what is being referenced.

I agree that looking at color chips for "72" that code 63 looks very close with what appears to be sunfire yellow code 56 stripe! A very nice combo, I think we all agree on that!

To the OP, I want to believe that the VIN plate being changed at some point in time please read the link.
http://www.ehow.com/list_7569868_vin...sylvania.html#

 

Its your decision but I would make the seller buy it back. It may be stolen or totaled and re(vined) to hide it. The VIN and cowl # has to match or you may never be able to sell it. The next guy may report it and then you have to prove YOU did not steal it. Bottom line is SOMEONE changed the vin tag for a reason. If you spend lots of cash on it and it turns out dirty, You lose. Sorry to be "Debby Downer" but if it quacks like a duck,it may me a duck. Good luck.

 

Gary - the VIN and Cowl number will never match on any car. The significance of the cowl tag and VIN not matching Assembly lines however is significant - which is maybe what you're trying to say?

A lot of folks get the significance of the VIN and Cowl tag mixed up. The Cowl tag has information from Fisher Body works related to the construction of the body shell. The body number is completely irrelevant and is not related to the VIN derivative at all, so it's not required for title on a vehicle. It can be used however for matching any build sheet or broadcast cards for the car.

The VIN is the 'birth certificate' for the car and is what DMV uses for Title registration and vehicle identification.

Quick summary.
* A car can have the cowl tag removed or replaced which is IMO unethical, but not illegal since it doesn't relate to title.
* Removing and replacing the VIN tag is a criminal code offence because it does relate to title.

As you correctly pointed out, the usual reason for changing VIN is fraud/theft. The VIN tag is determined by the Assembly line, not Fisher Body Works.

 

The fact that the assembly plants don't match is what concerns me. That and the VIN being Phillips head screwed in. It is obvious that the car has been misrepresented to the present buyer. Me, I like to have an accurate description of what I buy and don't want any hanky panky. Personally I don't want it if it THERE IS ANY DOUBT its not legit.

 

Understood. I believe we're all on the same page here.

 

On the flip side, maybe a previous owner (not experienced on these things) changed the cowl due to rust and neglected to switch the cowl tag and then used screws to reattach the VIN. Maybe the seller of the car can tell you who he got it from and so on till you find the owner who did the work. Then try to get a document signed by him that he changed it and why. As Allen said, You can Title it this way but why not try to get proof in case you have trouble selling later. Good luck and no doubt your Son will enjoy driving it.

 

This is what I got.