Car was sold as original car w black interior per owner. As you can see 937 is parchment buckets not black which would be 930. Also maybe another issue.....

 

Hi there,

Dean is posting pictures for me that I have received from the current owner of the 69W30 red convertible that John sold.
I would really appreciate input on what you Olds guys think. It is Very much appreciated.

DaveT

 

And an "A" for a white vinyl top? Should be a "1" for a white convert. top, "2" for a black vert. top. Walk away...FAST.

 

That was the other maybe ty

 

Here we go again...........
Those pictures posted by Dean of the carbs definitely look like they were restamped. The 8254 - what a JOKE!!!
That OW tag looks real shiney for a car over 45 years old. The yellow colour seems to bright as well. What are the numbers stamped into the tag? Is this another one of those restamped takes? What about the VIN on trans? Would love to see more pictures.

Dave, if you need any help at all send me a pm. I would be willing to help you out.
Read the "restamped thread" if you haven't already.

Cowl tag? Does it look like its been removed before? Something does not add up with this car????? Hmmmmmmmm

I can't believe this!!!!

Cheers,

Sam

 

Hi there,

Can you guys elaborate more on what all the concerns are with this W30?
It won first at the Nationals in MA. What could be wrong?

Please advise,

Thanks
DaveT

 

"A" is correct for white convertible top in '69

 

52 - Crimson Red Exterior
937 - Parchment white interior
A - White convertible top

 

Dave shows such as them don't check carb, dist numbers or anything for that matter

The parts in pics are not specific to 69 w30

 

Dean,
Can you please post a picture of how the car currently looks?

The current owner had it sprayed to the correct Crimson Red color per cowl tag so I was told.

It was painted an orangey red color with incorrect stripes when the current owner purchased the car Off EBay from John Welsh as an original factory 442 W30 convertible.

I need help.......thanks guys.

 

Yes post np

 

pic of ebay listing

second pic repainted by current owner

scoops look re-pop w the bend in bottom middle

 

date code is 99 beginning of April 69

 

You'd be better off with a tribute car that at least doesn't pretend to be all correct with restamps. And you can have a 425.

 

In the two pictures posted by Dean, the first picture is of the car currently as it sits today and the second picture is of the original EBay listing from a few years ago.

Can you post a couple other pictures for me Dean? I cant click on the one picture to enlarge it. Thanks for your help. I have no clue as how to post a picture on here. Sorry.

Thanks all.
DaveT

 

Sue Dave what other pics

 

I guess it would be helpful if the photo were in focus. Did the seller provide a photo of the VIN derivative on the trans?

OCA judging is not the most rigorous. This is not a knock on experienced OCA judges, but a statement of fact. There are no accepted and vetted standards against which cars are judged. The judging team is usually comprised of one experienced judge and several less experienced or even novice judges. I was a judge at Sturbridge (in the H/O class, however) and saw this process first-hand. Our team spent a lot of time on the first car we judged, and progressively less on subsequent cars - considerably less once the rain started!

I'll also point out that the car that took best of class in the 68-69 performance class at Seven Springs in 2009 was a 1968 "W-30" that had the fender emblems and W-36 stripes in the wrong place.

Bottom line is that without complete documentation and a rock-solid explanation of the issues on this car, you should not pay top dollar. A fully documented 1969 W-30 convert will bring VERY large dollars. If the car is priced consistent with it's condition and (lack of) documentation, have at it. Just make the purchase with your eyes open.

 

Dave,

With a quick glance at the engine VIN stampings something makes me want to see more.
Do you have anymore pictures of the engine? Im very interested in checking out more.

Chris, what do you think?

I don't recall ever seeing the swirl marks on the engine VIN pads as present in the picture above that was posted by Dean.

I hope others will jump in here and share their thoughts on the engine stamping in the car that Dave is looking at.

Let me know if i can help Dave. You can send me an email anytime.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Joe there are pics that I just received re OW stamp. The vin from what current owner says it barely made out..... Dave is sending pics to Sam who apparently can cross reference w his saved data.

 

present car pic

 

Dean, sorry to bother again. Can you please post the other pictures of the block that I sent you today?

There were a few bare block pictures.

Sam, I am sending you email with pictures. Thank you very much for your help.

The more and more I find out makes me want to step away from this car. I need to fly someone there to look at it. Still no luck with Steve M?
Pcard calling you very soon.

Thanks

DaveT

 

here is what Dave sent me

 

Hi,
I Just spoke to John this evening and had a detailed discussion about the history of the vehicle the red 69 442 W30 car I was chasing.

He is unable to confirm that car left the factory as a W30 convertible car.
He sold the car through an Ebay auction a few years back after the Nationals in MA.

From John's words, the car probably was "pieced together - possibly from a few other cars".
What does that mean?

He also said the car was his father in laws when he sold it on Ebay. John said the car has always been the original colors red with black interior and black top.
He had ZERO history of the car prior to his father in laws ownership but the car is numbers matching.

*** the cowl tag states something different on the color combination
*** the trans OW tag is almost brand new - scratched up with 2 visible digits.
The current owner used a magnifying glass to check too. I was sent pictures from a resource on this board that shows the font is very different on the OW tag itself compared to many originals - never mind the difference in the yellow color of the tag itself - its to new for its age.
(THANKS for Educating Me, you know who you are)

John also said he can make me a car in any color - he has the cowl tag and material available to him to make them. I didn't know this option was available.
If i don't buy the red convertible, John still has the yellow W30 convertible that he would make red by changing tags. He could build to my wants and my budget of 75K -
that is what the new owner wants for the red W30 convertible with 2 engines. He has over 65K invested into the car and bought it as a W30 car.

In the pictures Dean posted of the original block for the Red 69 442 W30 convertible, I noticed that the bare block had a Steve M written on it in chalk? This car was in CT with John and I was sent Steve's address and it happens to be in CT - coincidence?
The picture of the block was taken by John, who sent it to the current owner before he bought the car on Ebay a few years ago.

Questions....

Is this the same Steve M that was recommended to me on this board about doing a REPORT on the red W30 convertible?
Maybe Steve knows the history of this car?

John did inform me that Steve and him have done business over the years and went to school together in their younger days.
What a small world - I hope Steve knows the car already - that will help learning the history of the vehicle. I bought the magazine about the Oldsmobiles and saw him in it - he is the Guru. He should be able to confirm for me from the services he offers.
Ive been unable to get a hold of Steve M, tried through email and phone over the last few days.
Steve M, if your out there -
Do you know this car? and will you do a Rocket Report for me and inspect the car?
Can someone please pass this message on to him. I hope he is ok - no luck for almost a week now. Is he on Facebook? That would mean I need to sign up - help again, no thanks on Facebook.

From the education I have received on this site from many individuals, I am going to pass on the RED convertible W30 car since I'm leaning toward it not being a real W30 car? Tell me if Im wrong? (unless Steve confirms it as a real car)
Also, Iam going to pass on the yellow W30 convertible because the whole tag swap deal that John recommended and could do sounds totally unethical, nevermind the legal implications about that practice as some of you have told me.


So, maybe a documented 69 442 W30 convertible should be what i should be searching for??? Impossible......

Thanks
DaveT

 

Without factory documentation, neither Steve nor anyone else can confirm that this is a real W30.

 

Here is an original OH transmission tag from a 69 Hurst Olds.
The colour is very different and the rivet is a real original compared to the repo on the aftermarket tag of the red w30 convertible.

image_zpsi2ylydrs.jpeg

Cheers

Sam

 

Absolutely w regards to 68 and 69 W cars no docs/Canadian verification - no absolute proof

 

Dave, I would REALLY move on from this car and what ridiculous claims of what car John can potentially create for you......

Far as engine w Steve's name on it , Steve does do a lot of business w machine shops and typically shops identify parts w chalking last name on them.

Dave, John sold a car to this guy w wrong critical parts and what appears re-stamped parts as well.

The current owner got taken advantage of by John, I am sure John did not disclose the possibility that this was made from a few cars. Dont believe he would have bought it.

This is a guy who you dont want to do business with, look for others that have paperwork

 

"Absolutely w regards to 68 and 69 W cars no docs/Canadian verification - no absolute proof"
=================

Huh
I thought I just heard you say that my car cannot be proven just because all it has as proof is that original OW trans. ???

 

In my opinion without the fore mentioned how can there be absolute proof without documentation with respects to these years

 

Here is another picture.

72 OW tag on top (i blurred out 3 digits on the tag)- my car
69 OW tag from red convertible on the bottom

image_zpsfrfdvqrx.jpeg

differences from the 69 and the 72 trans tags are as follows:

69 tags
- have a silver background where the digits are stamped
- 2 letter identifications codes are also silver.

The 72 trans tag use a lighter white background in the above mentioned areas.

Both tags are the same yellow colour for 69 and 72. The rivets are all supposed to be the same but as you see they are NOT.

Sam

 

wow, good info

 

Dave, I would stay clear of this car. There is too many red flags.
It would be interesting to learn about its history.
Some questions pop into my mind.

When did this car become a W30 car and sold as such? Who else knows about this car?

From following the thread I see its history is tracked as far back as the Nationals in Sturbridge. The is no prior history? Every car and every thing has history - maybe Stefano can help out? He is great at finding prior history on vehicles.

Sounds like the creation of this vehicle has to be determined just like the creation of the Hemmings Car of The Year, the 69 F85 W31 car!!

Cheers,

Sam

 

Just to step back a moment, is there something sketchy with the red car? Or it just doesn't have some W-30-specific parts?

I would hate to scare him away for the wrong reasons.

 

Well, I'll throw my 0.02 in again -- it's time for a reality check here, folks. Dave, are you sure you really want or need a W-30? Because you've set yourself an incredibly high bar here. W-30 convertibles are very hard to find to begin with and you've multiplied the degree of difficulty a hundredfold by requiring a specific color combo of which I'm willing to bet no more than five or six still exist on the entire planet.

You mention something about having a budget of $75K for this project. Well, you'll likely need to double that in order to get what you want, and that's if you actually manage to find one.

Are you sure you wouldn't be better off cloning exactly what you want out of a Cutlass convertible? That way, you can paint it any color you want, upholster it any way you want, put all the options you want on it, build the engine any way you want, throw red inners and OAI on it and 99.9% of the world will never know the difference. And as long as you don't try to pass it off as authentic, there's no harm done.

I guess it comes down to asking yourself what the real reason you want a W-30 is, and just how badly do you want it?

And these guys that you're dealing with that keep offering to alter tags and restamp numbers and otherwise phony up a car for you? Stay away from them. They're crooks.

 

these two engines are about a year apart & every possible aspect of the pad and numbers are different


is this the norm or did something change at Lansing between '68 and '69?

 

found a couple more

 

I would hate to see the OP pay W-30 convertible money for a car that is questionable. As I wrote previously, if the car is priced consistently with the lack of documentation and the questionable history, then buy it and enjoy it. If the OP is looking for an investment-quality W-30 convert and willing to pay what one is worth, this is unlikely to be that car.

 

Hi

Here is a picture of the other 1969 442 W30 convertible car owned by John Welsh.
The car was originally yellow but is now painted platinum. This is the "yellow" car i mentioned in previous posts, the one that John could swap the cowl tags on.
It is represented as a W30 car with-out documents.

Any input or thoughts on this car? Help again please?

Thanks

DaveT

image_zps4rdgqlq8.jpeg

 

available tag swap & W30 car w/o docs, what a crock of cow dung!!


so it becomes more profitable to take a well documented 442 convertible, loose the documentation buy some red inner fenders, an OAI set-up, maybe some "CLONE" D heads & "PRESTO" non-documented W30 $$$$$.

 

We need to be careful pluralizing this its just one guy. Steve although mentioned by virtue of his name on block hardly implicates him being associated with this car.