Im stuck! Doing a 394 to 455 swap into 63 jetstar
#2
Stuck how? By now you know that the 394 and 455 are completely different. You need to fabricate frame mounts to mate to the later 455 motor mounts. You'll also need to adapt a conventional trans crossmember since you can't use the bellhousing trans mounts on a later GM transmission.
#3
Yes, I'm playing around with location of the engine. The mounts are not the issue I know I'll have to redo those. however, I'm dry fitting the 455 and I'm having interference issues with the exhaust manifold and the steering box, the stock cast ones turn downwards right at the steering box causing a crash. I have stainless tubular manifolds but they also wont fit because they flare out and crash into the steering box also. I was searching online and I cant find anyone that has done one of these. My main issue is that I was told by a very famous olds shop that it would be "bolt in" and either its not a bolt in or Im not catching something. If someone out there has done the swap I would like to know if they experienced this issue.
#4
I think you have to mount the engine slightly off center to the right. I believe I have read this before. I think this is what citcapp (Pat) had to do on his 57. I imagine he will speak up.
Last edited by redoldsman; May 10th, 2014 at 08:51 PM.
#5
I'm hoping he see's this soon because I'm really close to running with it. The way I have it mounted I could make a new manifold that goes straight back on the drivers side and be done with it. On the passenger side I could dive in and take a swim. I really like the position right now.
#6
Yes, I'm playing around with location of the engine. The mounts are not the issue I know I'll have to redo those. however, I'm dry fitting the 455 and I'm having interference issues with the exhaust manifold and the steering box, the stock cast ones turn downwards right at the steering box causing a crash. I have stainless tubular manifolds but they also wont fit because they flare out and crash into the steering box also. I was searching online and I cant find anyone that has done one of these. My main issue is that I was told by a very famous olds shop that it would be "bolt in" and either its not a bolt in or Im not catching something. If someone out there has done the swap I would like to know if they experienced this issue.
As for exhaust manifolds, you need the repro B/C-body LH manifold sold by Thornton. It's designed for the 1965-70 cars, which also have the rear-steer linkage and box location, but it is the best you can do for the 63-64 cars.
#9
#12
i believe you will have to off center the engine at least 1" to the passenger side of the car to clear the steering box . I used the W/Z Thornton headers for the 455 on my conversion and they cleared the steering box. There is plenty of room on the passenger side. Here is a picture of what I did on the 57. Yes there us a lot of fab work but not overwhelming. Just takes time. Other things i did where
1. replaced the two piece drive line with a single piece drive line. I did check out converting to a chev truck two piece drive line and that would be doable as well
2. Converted the column shift to work with the linkage off of a 75 chev pickup. I used a turbo 400 transmission.
1. replaced the two piece drive line with a single piece drive line. I did check out converting to a chev truck two piece drive line and that would be doable as well
2. Converted the column shift to work with the linkage off of a 75 chev pickup. I used a turbo 400 transmission.
#13
i believe you will have to off center the engine at least 1" to the passenger side of the car to clear the steering box . I used the W/Z Thornton headers for the 455 on my conversion and they cleared the steering box. There is plenty of room on the passenger side. Here is a picture of what I did on the 57. Yes there us a lot of fab work but not overwhelming. Just takes time. Other things i did where
1. replaced the two piece drive line with a single piece drive line. I did check out converting to a chev truck two piece drive line and that would be doable as well
2. Converted the column shift to work with the linkage off of a 75 chev pickup. I used a turbo 400 transmission.
1. replaced the two piece drive line with a single piece drive line. I did check out converting to a chev truck two piece drive line and that would be doable as well
2. Converted the column shift to work with the linkage off of a 75 chev pickup. I used a turbo 400 transmission.
It has so much room, for the Trans mount. I'm using a u shaped crossmember for the front mounts. Not to many places to go to on the frame for the front.
#14
#16
Got the part in from Fusik. It fits like a glove. It goes up and around the steering box just like you said. Thanks for pointing me in that direction joe-padavano. I will post up pictures when we are all done here.
#17
#19
Here are some pictures of the modified mount that Mondello sells. I had to extend and play with this mount because it sat lower on the drivers side and clearing the steering box was no easy task. It sits just about 1/2" in forward of the box.
#20
This is my first Oldsmobile build and I have a few questions. Any info would help out. I got this project in boxes, literally. I am not sure about the fuel pump and some of the vacuum lines on this. I will post up pictures of what I have in question as I get stuck on them.
For starters:
-Which way do the weights face on the flexplate installed?
-there are 3 nipples on the fuel pump, the one that says "in" is self explanatory. the other two not so much. There is a big and a small nipple where do these go?
Thanks for your reply!
For starters:
-Which way do the weights face on the flexplate installed?
-there are 3 nipples on the fuel pump, the one that says "in" is self explanatory. the other two not so much. There is a big and a small nipple where do these go?
Thanks for your reply!
Last edited by autofluencia; May 27th, 2014 at 07:06 PM. Reason: left out info
#21
The crank flange has one of the six bolts offset. The flexplate will only bolt up in one orientation. If it's flipped, you won't get the bolts aligned.
The large outlet port goes to the carb. The small one is for cars with fuel return. If you don't have fuel return, just cap it.
-there are 3 nipples on the fuel pump, the one that says "in" is self explanatory. the other two not so much. There is a big and a small nipple where do these go?
#22
Here's another tip. Those notched valve covers are unique to the 1968-72 big block A-body cars, and the notches go towards the back to clear the power brake booster and the A/C box on the firewall. If you don't need them, sell them to an A-body person and pocket the difference from standard valve covers.
#23
I'm working on the car for a friend. I'll let him know about the valve covers.
Interesting thing is going on with the flex to torque. I have interference with one of the torque converter ears and the flexplate weight. Its only about a 1/4" interference. These are equally spaced so I cant spin it to a different direction. I'm going to have to notch that guy to clear the weights. That was the basis for my last question about direction.
Interesting thing is going on with the flex to torque. I have interference with one of the torque converter ears and the flexplate weight. Its only about a 1/4" interference. These are equally spaced so I cant spin it to a different direction. I'm going to have to notch that guy to clear the weights. That was the basis for my last question about direction.
#25
The crank flange has one of the six bolts offset. The flexplate will only bolt up in one orientation. If it's flipped, you won't get the bolts aligned.
The large outlet port goes to the carb. The small one is for cars with fuel return. If you don't have fuel return, just cap it.
The large outlet port goes to the carb. The small one is for cars with fuel return. If you don't have fuel return, just cap it.
TWO of the bolts are offset from a perfect hex for 1968+
ONE for 1967 and back, the other direction.
End result- you cannot put the flexplate on backwards.
As for the fuel pump, the threaded fitting is pressurized fuel to the pump.
The large 3/8" nipple is suction inlet from tank.
5/16" nipple is return flow, as JP said, cap if unused.
Interesting thing is going on with the flex to torque. I have interference with one of the torque converter ears and the flexplate weight. Its only about a 1/4" interference. These are equally spaced so I cant spin it to a different direction. I'm going to have to notch that guy to clear the weights. That was the basis for my last question about direction.
============================
Which part is non-factory?
The TC I am guessing. Can you grind the offending part away?
#26
I'm working on the car for a friend. I'll let him know about the valve covers.
Interesting thing is going on with the flex to torque. I have interference with one of the torque converter ears and the flexplate weight. Its only about a 1/4" interference. These are equally spaced so I cant spin it to a different direction. I'm going to have to notch that guy to clear the weights. That was the basis for my last question about direction.
Interesting thing is going on with the flex to torque. I have interference with one of the torque converter ears and the flexplate weight. Its only about a 1/4" interference. These are equally spaced so I cant spin it to a different direction. I'm going to have to notch that guy to clear the weights. That was the basis for my last question about direction.
#27
My buddy supplied a Mondello crossmember that I had to cut the ends off of. and extend both sides at the U shapes. You have to drop the steering box and float the engine on stands or a lift and play with it. I used the fan to guide the position of the engine. There's not that much room to play with since you have to clear the steering box on the drivers side. for trans mount I used schedule 40 pipe and made the mount.
#28
Oh, I relish the day I can spot an error in a JoeP post!
TWO of the bolts are offset from a perfect hex for 1968+
ONE for 1967 and back, the other direction.
End result- you cannot put the flexplate on backwards.
As for the fuel pump, the threaded fitting is pressurized fuel to the pump.
The large 3/8" nipple is suction inlet from tank.
5/16" nipple is return flow, as JP said, cap if unused.
Interesting thing is going on with the flex to torque. I have interference with one of the torque converter ears and the flexplate weight. Its only about a 1/4" interference. These are equally spaced so I cant spin it to a different direction. I'm going to have to notch that guy to clear the weights. That was the basis for my last question about direction.
============================
Which part is non-factory?
The TC I am guessing. Can you grind the offending part away?
TWO of the bolts are offset from a perfect hex for 1968+
ONE for 1967 and back, the other direction.
End result- you cannot put the flexplate on backwards.
As for the fuel pump, the threaded fitting is pressurized fuel to the pump.
The large 3/8" nipple is suction inlet from tank.
5/16" nipple is return flow, as JP said, cap if unused.
Interesting thing is going on with the flex to torque. I have interference with one of the torque converter ears and the flexplate weight. Its only about a 1/4" interference. These are equally spaced so I cant spin it to a different direction. I'm going to have to notch that guy to clear the weights. That was the basis for my last question about direction.
============================
Which part is non-factory?
The TC I am guessing. Can you grind the offending part away?
#29
#31
#32
My buddy supplied a Mondello crossmember that I had to cut the ends off of. and extend both sides at the U shapes. You have to drop the steering box and float the engine on stands or a lift and play with it. I used the fan to guide the position of the engine. There's not that much room to play with since you have to clear the steering box on the drivers side. for trans mount I used schedule 40 pipe and made the mount.
what exhaust did you decide to use? Manifolds or headers? Any advice in that arena?
Did you have to modify the trans tunnel?
#33
My buddy supplied a Mondello crossmember that I had to cut the ends off of. and extend both sides at the U shapes. You have to drop the steering box and float the engine on stands or a lift and play with it. I used the fan to guide the position of the engine. There's not that much room to play with since you have to clear the steering box on the drivers side. for trans mount I used schedule 40 pipe and made the mount.
#34
The manifold I posted a picture of is a reproduction of the factory dual exhaust manifold used on the 65-70 B/C-body cars. While the frame on these cars isn't exactly the same as the one on the 63-64 cars, they do have the steering box in the same place and the same rear steer linkage design. That's why the manifold has that unusual shape - to get up over the steering box and the column shift linkage. This is the ONLY factory manifold for a BBO that is designed for this application in the full size cars. I'm guessing all the other manifolds you've tried were from applications with either manifolds from front steer cars like A-body cars or from single exhaust applications where the driver's side manifold has a center dump. That latter will only work if you plan to run a single exhaust with the crossover pipe to the passenger manifold. I'm sure that's not what you want. There should not be much engine offset required with the Thornton manifold. (Note that I am not talking about the Thornton W/Z manifolds, but what they call their "Starfire" manifold.
Are you aware of any headers that will fit this application?
#35
Great, thank you. Did you have to drop the gear box to allow yourself room to weld in the crossmember? I have a few more questions if you don't mind providing some insight.
what exhaust did you decide to use? Manifolds or headers? Any advice in that arena?
Did you have to modify the trans tunnel?
what exhaust did you decide to use? Manifolds or headers? Any advice in that arena?
Did you have to modify the trans tunnel?
You can use the stock manifold for the pass side, Thornton on the drivers. This setup was the only one that worked for me. The headers we tried installing would not fit because of interference with the steering box. As big as this car is there is very little room to play with. You will have to raise the car in the air about 18" and float the engine and trans in there while you make adjustments to the position of the drivetrain.
#37
No problem, The gear box has to come down because the crossmember I used was a tight fit and it interfered with one of the ears of the steering box. I also cut off a piece of the box that interfered with the fitment. You will have to play with it.
You can use the stock manifold for the pass side, Thornton on the drivers. This setup was the only one that worked for me. The headers we tried installing would not fit because of interference with the steering box. As big as this car is there is very little room to play with. You will have to raise the car in the air about 18" and float the engine and trans in there while you make adjustments to the position of the drivetrain.
You can use the stock manifold for the pass side, Thornton on the drivers. This setup was the only one that worked for me. The headers we tried installing would not fit because of interference with the steering box. As big as this car is there is very little room to play with. You will have to raise the car in the air about 18" and float the engine and trans in there while you make adjustments to the position of the drivetrain.
Also, do you think the 63 Jetstar you are completing and my 64 Ninety Eight are identical conversions? I generally build chevrolet and this is my first olds as well.
#38
Mondello has it but its more than twice the price, if you need it you will have to give up a kidney. I got the same answer from them. There are used ones that i recently found on Ebay. you can scrub and paint it with High heat paint. I ended up having to do that on the fusik one. It was coated with something that flaked off real bad when it got hot.
I'm not sure about the cars, this too was my first olds. Some of the guys on here could probably chime in on differences in chassis.
I'm not sure about the cars, this too was my first olds. Some of the guys on here could probably chime in on differences in chassis.
#40
Mondello has it but its more than twice the price, if you need it you will have to give up a kidney. I got the same answer from them. There are used ones that i recently found on Ebay. you can scrub and paint it with High heat paint. I ended up having to do that on the fusik one. It was coated with something that flaked off real bad when it got hot.
I'm not sure about the cars, this too was my first olds. Some of the guys on here could probably chime in on differences in chassis.
I'm not sure about the cars, this too was my first olds. Some of the guys on here could probably chime in on differences in chassis.
I just replied to another one of your posts, but I would be interested in purchasing a built trans crossmember if you still have the specs and would want to build a second one.