Hello From Oregon
January 1st, 2010, 09:36 AM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 85
Hello From Oregon
Hi,
I started to write a "short" history of my car and how I got into A-bodies, and it turned into War & Peace.
I cut it down to the first paragraph and some pics of the car in its current state.
I have visited CO from time to time, mostly reading about Richards' car and finally decided to join. I have really enjoyed his build thread as I'm going a similar direction with my Cutlass. It's nice to see I'm not the only one who has their project go sideways, backwards, and every other way possible. I think the most important thing I've learned working on cars over the years is to take a time out if needed when something unravels. I owned a '66 Chevelle when I was 20 that became a project from Hell. It was one problem after another and one day I snapped and got rid of it. I regretted it almost immediately. If I would have just let it sit for awhile instead of acting on impulse I'd probably still own it. There have been several times I've "hit the wall" (or the SUV in one case) with my Cutlass and just wanted to unload it. I'm glad I stepped back and cooled off or I wouldn't be having so much fun with it now.
Glad to be here and thanks for having me.
Mike
I started to write a "short" history of my car and how I got into A-bodies, and it turned into War & Peace.
I cut it down to the first paragraph and some pics of the car in its current state.
I have visited CO from time to time, mostly reading about Richards' car and finally decided to join. I have really enjoyed his build thread as I'm going a similar direction with my Cutlass. It's nice to see I'm not the only one who has their project go sideways, backwards, and every other way possible. I think the most important thing I've learned working on cars over the years is to take a time out if needed when something unravels. I owned a '66 Chevelle when I was 20 that became a project from Hell. It was one problem after another and one day I snapped and got rid of it. I regretted it almost immediately. If I would have just let it sit for awhile instead of acting on impulse I'd probably still own it. There have been several times I've "hit the wall" (or the SUV in one case) with my Cutlass and just wanted to unload it. I'm glad I stepped back and cooled off or I wouldn't be having so much fun with it now.
Glad to be here and thanks for having me.
Mike
January 1st, 2010, 10:10 AM
#2
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Medford, Oregon
Posts: 13,807
Welcome to the site Mike! You have a good looking project car! I agree with you, there have been a few times that I felt like giving away my tools and stop pretending to be a mechanic! Being able to put a project on the backburner but not totally loose interest is a good skill to learn. My first Olds project took 7 years to do as I didn't have the finances to rebuild it all at once. It was a car buddy that kept me from giving up on it.
I lived in the Salem area from 1981 to 2001. How long have you been in the Willamette Valley? John
I lived in the Salem area from 1981 to 2001. How long have you been in the Willamette Valley? John
January 1st, 2010, 03:07 PM
#5
car guy
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 5,662
welcome Mike...Looks like we have real similar taste. You car sits nice. Out of curiousity what size tire and wheel combo did you use. I looks real good. Looks like you have been talking to Marcus at SC&C.
January 1st, 2010, 07:02 PM
#7
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rathdrum, Idano
Posts: 9,127
Welcome to Co
Nice looking propject Mike, Richard's build is a good guide to use for your project. His was well thought out and not without complications. Your not that far from a good parts source. John (2blu442) has a great selection and is great to deal with. Keep us posted on your build. What are your future plans for it.
January 2nd, 2010, 09:45 AM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 85
Thanks for the greetings.
The wheel and tire saga is one of those "sideways and backwards" stories. I bought a set of 17" Torque Thrust II's before I knew exactly what I was doing with the suspension. I figured a 17 was plenty big enough for any brake setup I would do. I wanted big brakes because I travel on I-5 and I-84 a lot in the Summer and the stock drum brakes were scary. As Richard has guessed, I then spent a lot of "quality time" on the phone with Marcus at SC&C.
I decided to go with the SPC upper and lower arms and the ATS AFX tall spindles. One of the things that attracted me to them was that they used stock C5 Corvette bearings and accepted stock 'Vette brakes. I could save enough by going with the stock stuff over some by Baer or Wilwood to pay for the spindles. I figured it would also be nice to have "stock" parts so they would be easier to find if I broke something on a trip. I ordered the stuff from Marcus and then contacted Tobin at Kore 3 for brakes. I can't say enough good things about Tobin. He is a pleasure to work with. I was in the process of ordering my brakes from him and mentioned I had the TT II wheels. He said that unless they were special ordered with clearancing they wouldn't fit!
I checked my options and found that I would have to go through all kinds of trouble just to downsize brakes for a C5 bearing since they only came with 13" and bigger rotors.
Since Tobin is only about 1/2 hour South, he suggested I bring down one of my wheels and the spindles to verify they would not work. We mocked up the spindle, rotor and caliper and it was a no-go. I went ahead and got C5 rotors and C6 calipers from Tobin. The kit had 100% of the parts I needed (even a little tube of Loctite) and for a great price.
So since I just got a big bunch of lemons, I made lemonade by moving the TT II wheels to the wifes LeMans (which made her happy) and going on a new wheel search. I was going to do 18's to make sure I had clearance, but ended up finding another set of 17's on closeout at Les Schwab. It was fun walking in with the spindle/rotor/caliper setup to try it in the wheel. The look on their faces was priceless when I told them it was going in a '66 Cutlass!
So, after much ado, I've finally got around to Richard's question about the wheel & tire combo. I was lucky enough to find wheels I could buy "off the shelf" since I couldn't afford to special order them right after the whole TT II fiasco. They are Raceline GT wheels. 17"X8" with 4.5" backspace and 17"X10" with 6" backspace. I ended up going with Kuhmo Ecsta ASX tires from America's Tire. 245/45/17 and 285/40/17. They are a decent tire for the money. Definitely not a hardcore handling compound, but I'm happy with them for daily driving.
I love the way the car sits. It ended up a little lower than I was intending, but that was after having the front suspension apart 4 times (was WAY too low at first) so I called it good. It was a real pain since I went with Varishock single adjustables and they don't fit through lower arms so you have to put everything together with them inside the springs. It only rubs on the "hump" to clear the e-brake cable in the front inner fender. That is only if you hit a big bump with the tires turned.
The wheel and tire saga is one of those "sideways and backwards" stories. I bought a set of 17" Torque Thrust II's before I knew exactly what I was doing with the suspension. I figured a 17 was plenty big enough for any brake setup I would do. I wanted big brakes because I travel on I-5 and I-84 a lot in the Summer and the stock drum brakes were scary. As Richard has guessed, I then spent a lot of "quality time" on the phone with Marcus at SC&C.
I decided to go with the SPC upper and lower arms and the ATS AFX tall spindles. One of the things that attracted me to them was that they used stock C5 Corvette bearings and accepted stock 'Vette brakes. I could save enough by going with the stock stuff over some by Baer or Wilwood to pay for the spindles. I figured it would also be nice to have "stock" parts so they would be easier to find if I broke something on a trip. I ordered the stuff from Marcus and then contacted Tobin at Kore 3 for brakes. I can't say enough good things about Tobin. He is a pleasure to work with. I was in the process of ordering my brakes from him and mentioned I had the TT II wheels. He said that unless they were special ordered with clearancing they wouldn't fit!
I checked my options and found that I would have to go through all kinds of trouble just to downsize brakes for a C5 bearing since they only came with 13" and bigger rotors. Since Tobin is only about 1/2 hour South, he suggested I bring down one of my wheels and the spindles to verify they would not work. We mocked up the spindle, rotor and caliper and it was a no-go. I went ahead and got C5 rotors and C6 calipers from Tobin. The kit had 100% of the parts I needed (even a little tube of Loctite) and for a great price.
So since I just got a big bunch of lemons, I made lemonade by moving the TT II wheels to the wifes LeMans (which made her happy) and going on a new wheel search. I was going to do 18's to make sure I had clearance, but ended up finding another set of 17's on closeout at Les Schwab. It was fun walking in with the spindle/rotor/caliper setup to try it in the wheel. The look on their faces was priceless when I told them it was going in a '66 Cutlass!
So, after much ado, I've finally got around to Richard's question about the wheel & tire combo. I was lucky enough to find wheels I could buy "off the shelf" since I couldn't afford to special order them right after the whole TT II fiasco. They are Raceline GT wheels. 17"X8" with 4.5" backspace and 17"X10" with 6" backspace. I ended up going with Kuhmo Ecsta ASX tires from America's Tire. 245/45/17 and 285/40/17. They are a decent tire for the money. Definitely not a hardcore handling compound, but I'm happy with them for daily driving.
I love the way the car sits. It ended up a little lower than I was intending, but that was after having the front suspension apart 4 times (was WAY too low at first) so I called it good. It was a real pain since I went with Varishock single adjustables and they don't fit through lower arms so you have to put everything together with them inside the springs. It only rubs on the "hump" to clear the e-brake cable in the front inner fender. That is only if you hit a big bump with the tires turned.
January 2nd, 2010, 07:13 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 85
Hi all. Thanks again for the welcome and compliments.
A little background on my car and how I ended up heading the direction I am.
One of my best friends has a '67 442 that has been in his family since new. I always loved riding in his car when we were teenagers and it's where I got my soft spot for GM A-bodies. Another friend has a very nice '67 Chevelle that he has owned for about 10 years. He has turned it into a really nice "road" car. 468 big block Chevy with Edelbrock heads, Richmond 6 speed, Global West A-arms, tall spindles, Baer brakes, FAB 9 rearend, Recaro seats, etc. He also had one of the first 3 of the "new wave" of pro touring Camaros with C4 Corvette suspensions built by Art Rasmussen and Wayne Due. He sold it a few years back, but riding in, driving, and helping him work on his cars got me really interested in building an older car that could handle.
I got my '66 Cutlass in '02. I have owned lots of cars over the years, but this was my first Olds. I always wanted a muscle car born the same year I was. I guess technically I wanted another one since that had been the idea with the 66 Chevelle. It has come a long way since then and still has a long way to go.
The front clip and left rear quarter were beat up and the interior was trashed, but it ran and drove. It had an Olds 350 (complete with the popular blown head gasket option) and a Powerglide when I bought it, so I swapped an 80k mile Olds 350 / Turbo 350 out of a '75 Cutlass and it's still going strong.
I drove it as-is for a couple of years (couldn't see the dents from the driver's seat) and then rearended an SUV doing 5mph. This finished off the already beat up '66 frontend and my just installed aluminum radiator.
This is where the lesson learned from the '66 Chevelle paid off. I was so frustrated after the accident, I would have sold it for almost nothing.
Instead, I put it behind the house and tried not to think about it. After a month or so, I started looking for front end parts.
I swapped on a '67 front clip because I had it from a Vista Cruiser parts car and all of the '66 clips I found were as trashed as mine. I actually like the '67 fronts a little better, and I wasn't worried about keeping it all original since it's not a 442 and I don't plan on ever selling it.
I got the rear quarter, trunk floor and lower windshield channel (which I didn't even know was rusty until they removed the windshield) fixed in '07. I put in a new gas tank after the trunk floor was done since the old one was starting to flake rust into the fuel filter. I had them epoxy primer the whole car so it didn't look too funky. It still needs more body work and paint, but the suspension needed addressed. It was all original and was becoming really scary to drive. The 4 wheel drum brakes were not fun either.
I went with "pro touring" type parts on the front suspension. This wasn't done with the intent of ever road racing or even autocrossing it (although I might just for kicks) but of making it really nice to drive. I have been really happy with the results so far. It not only goes around a corner, but also is a joy to just tool around or take a trip in.
I went with SPC upper and lower arms, ATS AFX tall spindles and Corvette C5 rotor /C6 caliper brakes. I put on all new stainless brake and fuel lines. After a lot of pondering, I chose Varishock single adjustable shocks. I'm glad I did because I can soften them up for normal driving and if I do decide to play I can crank them up. I chose a Lee 670 steering box with all new center link, inner and outer tie rods and idler arms. I didn't see a reason to go with a rack and pinion steering, coilovers or double adjustable shocks, because I am first and foremost building a driver and it seemed like a lot of extra expense for little or no benefit in regards to my goals. I think a lot of people get caught up in buying the trickest parts for the "ooh-ahh" factor or because that's what you're "supposed" to put on a pro touring car.
With the exception of rear Varishocks, I haven't done anything to the rear suspension or axle (peg leg Olds 10 bolt) yet.
I haven't really done anything to the interior yet except for some nice used Acura seats and an Alpine stereo.
Well this ended up way more involved than I intended. Hmm, that's what usually happens to my car projects too.
Thanks
A little background on my car and how I ended up heading the direction I am.
One of my best friends has a '67 442 that has been in his family since new. I always loved riding in his car when we were teenagers and it's where I got my soft spot for GM A-bodies. Another friend has a very nice '67 Chevelle that he has owned for about 10 years. He has turned it into a really nice "road" car. 468 big block Chevy with Edelbrock heads, Richmond 6 speed, Global West A-arms, tall spindles, Baer brakes, FAB 9 rearend, Recaro seats, etc. He also had one of the first 3 of the "new wave" of pro touring Camaros with C4 Corvette suspensions built by Art Rasmussen and Wayne Due. He sold it a few years back, but riding in, driving, and helping him work on his cars got me really interested in building an older car that could handle.
I got my '66 Cutlass in '02. I have owned lots of cars over the years, but this was my first Olds. I always wanted a muscle car born the same year I was. I guess technically I wanted another one since that had been the idea with the 66 Chevelle. It has come a long way since then and still has a long way to go.
The front clip and left rear quarter were beat up and the interior was trashed, but it ran and drove. It had an Olds 350 (complete with the popular blown head gasket option) and a Powerglide when I bought it, so I swapped an 80k mile Olds 350 / Turbo 350 out of a '75 Cutlass and it's still going strong.
I drove it as-is for a couple of years (couldn't see the dents from the driver's seat) and then rearended an SUV doing 5mph. This finished off the already beat up '66 frontend and my just installed aluminum radiator.
This is where the lesson learned from the '66 Chevelle paid off. I was so frustrated after the accident, I would have sold it for almost nothing.
Instead, I put it behind the house and tried not to think about it. After a month or so, I started looking for front end parts.
I swapped on a '67 front clip because I had it from a Vista Cruiser parts car and all of the '66 clips I found were as trashed as mine. I actually like the '67 fronts a little better, and I wasn't worried about keeping it all original since it's not a 442 and I don't plan on ever selling it.
I got the rear quarter, trunk floor and lower windshield channel (which I didn't even know was rusty until they removed the windshield) fixed in '07. I put in a new gas tank after the trunk floor was done since the old one was starting to flake rust into the fuel filter. I had them epoxy primer the whole car so it didn't look too funky. It still needs more body work and paint, but the suspension needed addressed. It was all original and was becoming really scary to drive. The 4 wheel drum brakes were not fun either.
I went with "pro touring" type parts on the front suspension. This wasn't done with the intent of ever road racing or even autocrossing it (although I might just for kicks) but of making it really nice to drive. I have been really happy with the results so far. It not only goes around a corner, but also is a joy to just tool around or take a trip in.
I went with SPC upper and lower arms, ATS AFX tall spindles and Corvette C5 rotor /C6 caliper brakes. I put on all new stainless brake and fuel lines. After a lot of pondering, I chose Varishock single adjustable shocks. I'm glad I did because I can soften them up for normal driving and if I do decide to play I can crank them up. I chose a Lee 670 steering box with all new center link, inner and outer tie rods and idler arms. I didn't see a reason to go with a rack and pinion steering, coilovers or double adjustable shocks, because I am first and foremost building a driver and it seemed like a lot of extra expense for little or no benefit in regards to my goals. I think a lot of people get caught up in buying the trickest parts for the "ooh-ahh" factor or because that's what you're "supposed" to put on a pro touring car.
With the exception of rear Varishocks, I haven't done anything to the rear suspension or axle (peg leg Olds 10 bolt) yet.
I haven't really done anything to the interior yet except for some nice used Acura seats and an Alpine stereo.
Well this ended up way more involved than I intended. Hmm, that's what usually happens to my car projects too.
Thanks
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