1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

Hello.I am from New Mexico.Ive had a 1970 442 Sherwood Green.Now I have a 1972 442 optioned.I researched and found my car is from Arlington Texas and the first owner was born in 1901.It is body tagged paint code for flame orange.a/c car

Allan R

Welcome aboard. You'll be getting lots of comments to see Pictures of your ride. If your car is from Arlington, there's a good chance you might find the build sheet for the car on top of the gas tank.

What are your plans for the car, and which model is the body? Cutlass (f85) or Cutlass S?

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

It is a cutlass s coupe.I just bought the car and started to restore it.I have yet to remove the tank.Thanks for the location.i looked under the back seat and only found a rat nest.lol.it has a white interior which needs restoration.it is a shell with a 12 bolt rear.i hope to get going soon.

Allan R

12 bolt rear? Then it's not original to the car. All 1972 Cutlass's came with a 10 bolt corporate rear end. You might find some broadcast cards in the car (tucked under seat springs) and if you do, look for the code W29. That's about the only way you're going to be able to prove this car was originally a 442. If you post the VIN and cowl tag, we can give you more information about what the car was originally born with. Your VIN should start 3G87()2()XXXXXX. The first () is the engine code letter, the second one is the Plant identification letter. The X's are the sequential build of the car at the Plant.

Flame orange wasn't all that common a color in 72. Does it show 65 65 next to the PNT on the cowl? If it's a white interior your TRM code is likely 947.

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

Thanks! I didnt know about the 12 bolt.craigslist here it comes.lol.but the vin is 3g87h2r.the tag says it is 65/65.you can see more pics on my album.i cant seem to post from mobile to thread? Ill read that thread next.lol

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

Heres the crazy thing.if the guy who originally bought the car was 71 yrs old when he bought the car?

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

It is 947

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

I assumed it was a 442 because the man at the mvd that researched the title told me that it indicated it on the frame, according to title records.

txrob779

Welcome aboard...I was raised in Arlington, Texas. Born in Richland Hills, Texas.
Looking forward to seeing your car.

oldcutlass

Welcome, yes we like pictures.

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

Thanks for the welcomes and advice!

oldsman72

Welcome to the site and good luck with your project.
I now own a '70 442 that WAS Sherwood green

jaunty75

The MVD person must be mistaken. For 1972, the 442 returned to being an option on the Cutlass lines, not its own series as it was for '68 through '71, so there is nothing in the VIN that would indicate whether or not it was a 442. I don't know what would be on the frame of a '72 442 that would indicate this.

As Allan says, the only way to document a '72 442 is to find a broadcast card (or protect-o-plate or original window sticker or build sheet?--I'm not sure what else would or could do it).

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

The mvd guy said it had a note in the original title search from the insurance company indicating it has a painted marking on the frame as 442.I too researched if there were 442s in 72 and found it as an option for cars with 350 2barrel single exhaust.i too know that in 72 it was an option.seems to me it had the option.

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

And oldsman 72....you are killing me! I miss my 70 442.Made everyone at Ft.Bliss Tx. crazy.Lucky!

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

Just gotta find that build sheet! I guess the original orange fenders and 442 emblems arent gonna be enough.

jaunty75

Interesting. I wonder what the painted marking was, and I'm wondering what the 442 purists would have to say about this as state DMV people have been known to make all kinds of assumptions and mistakes over the years.

As far as the engine goes, the 442 package was available in '72 on any Cutlass, Cutlass S, or Cutlass Supreme with any engine.

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

Yes.thats what im hoping.i mean regardless it is orange, oldsmobile, and mine.lol.shes a 350 with auto and bench. Sorry for the purist but i plan on driving this daily in my small town and its getting a 455 fuel injected,4 maybe 5 speed.some type of posi rear(maybe w29?), dual exhaust and bumper.mine doesnt have cutouts and.lastly....restomod.i didnt intend on being original actually.

jaunty75

By all means drive it and have fun. That's what this is all about.

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

Thank you.I will but unfortunately not for a long while.455s arent cheap.lol.or anything else i listed for that matter.lol.but i do thank you guys for interest in my car.i hope to make even the purists proud with my pics and plans for a modern looking 442 restomod.

Allan R

The MVD guy is wrong. There's absolutely no markings on the frame to indicate 442 heritage. Period. There should be stampings on the frame, but they are VIN deriviatives. Specifically it will tell you Division (3 - Oldsmobile) Year (2 - 1972), Plant (R - Arlington) and the last 6 digits of the original cars VIN.

You need documentation to prove a 1972 442 and the only documentation that holds water is:
- Build sheet showing the W29 option,
- broadcast card showing the W29 option,
- window sticker showing W29 option or
- the original bill of sale from the dealer showing..the W29 option.
The protecto plate will not provide that info, neither will previous registrations on the car or sworn affidavits from Previous owners. Sorry, but that's just the truth about 1972 442's.

There's absolutely nothing impressive about a 442 with a 350 2bbl. As Dan mentioned it was simply an appearance and handling package in 72 unless you ordered the W30. That's the ONLY 442 in 1972 that came automatically with the dual exhaust and cutout bumper/trumpet tip exhausts. The J code (350 2bbl) and M code (350 4bbl) were also available and came with dual N10 exhausts but that was not with trumpet tips or cutout bumper.

I don't think even the purists would have any objection to you modifying your ride to suit your dreams. I would suggest that if you're putting in a 455 you also look at a 200 4R transmission.

You can get a 455 block fairly inexpensive and build it to your wants. It gets expensive if you farm out all the work instead of doing it yourself. We all understand that. Looking forward to your pics. Restomods are simply another approach to building a dream car - IMO anyway.

BTW, I think you're getting mixed up with what the W29 option really is. It's not a posi rear end. It's an ordering package that you can easily look up on the Dealers SPECS guide. A G80 rear end (limited slip, posi, whatever you want to call it) was a separate option you had to order in addition to the W29 if you wanted it. Only the W30 cars got the G80 axle automatically.

Dan's information about availability of models that the 442 could be ordered with is mostly correct except for one thing. The 442 was NOT available on the 1972 Cutlass Supreme Hardtop Coupe. It was however available on the Cutlass Supreme convertible.

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

Funny i said orange factory fenders with the 442 fenders emblems.never said RED liners.any 442 knows that is w30.as for the frame he wasnt wrong.it is painted at the factory indicating what type of car it is.but i guess on this site there are enough people that try to make an arguement about anything.i mustve came to the mustang foxbody website by accident.because i didnt expect so many of thethings i did say partially quoted back?

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

Im too dumb to use a computer and im using mobile.i came here looking for greetings but wound up arguing.im never gonna let go of my car being what it is in my mind.itll never be concourse missing the drivetrain and all.I chose restomod for that reason.i did not plan on handing down the car and saying to my kids,"Hey its a one of a kind rare w3000 dr.oldsmobiles assistant drivers car.lol.I just wanna have fun.as for those that dont know much but seem to say it all.....go to inlinetube.com and look up the CONCOURSE frame they are doing correctly from 1972.i couldnt post the pic somehow.like i said.i am not compuer savy.but as for sake of arguement.i will not return.i am a retired army veteran and dont have the patience to argue or debate.i came for commeraderie and a common liking.(olds)

Oldsguy

Welcome to CO, hope you stay. No need to for sensitivity to disagreements about heredity of a car. Take the criticism at face value and decide if you want to accept or not. No disrespect intended by people here, they are trying to help you out.

Allan R

Ok, lets take it a step at a time. I'll start out by not 'quoting' you as that seems to bother you. Easier to work with you that way? These comments are NOT intended to be anything other than information to you, so please don't take them the wrong way, ok?

1. There is nothing in my or Dan's posts that was said or intended as anything other than being helpful. Your concept of arguing is pretty tight. I don't see any arguments anywhere in this thread. Your world of experience with Olds is unknown to us, but some of the things you posted clearly show that you're not as familiar as we are. Please accept that there are more points of view than just your own or 'a guy at the MVD'. I know mine isn't the only one either and sure, I can make mistakes too. I just happen to know a lot about 72 as it's my model year and I have a passion for it. I'm not a purist, and can appreciate all sides of the Olds community. I suggest some flexibility in this discussion is warranted on your part too.

2. Your choice to stay or leave. No one's forcing you to make this decision. Hopefully you'll reconsider after you calm down a bit. Personally I've seen a lot of exchanges that make yours look like nothing. I think you're over reacting and taking this way to personally.

3. About the orange fenders. I apologize. It was my mistake thinking you were referring to the inner liners. I'll go back and edit that out to be fair. But to answer your question, I have to ask how you know for a fact they are the original fenders. You're talking about a 42 year old car that may have had front end damage at some point in time and had them replaced? I don't know the history of your car or how many previous owners it's been through. Even DMV doesn't keep records that go back 42 years. What I can tell you is the same as others will; simply having 442 numerals on a car doesn't mean it's a real 442. Something for you to ponder - 1972 is one of the easiest years to clone simply because there is nothing in the VIN to confirm the model as W29 442. How do you know for a fact that a previous owner didn't already clone this car? I don't have any issues with the mods you're suggesting to the car. My only comments are directed to your claim of the 442 pedigree. And even at that, I'm trying to help you with it, not dis you.

3. The Jim Krata frame? You mean this?

Well I gotta say that's a 1 of 1. Olds did NOT spray paint their 72 frames with that stencilling. And if you want to get down to being concourse? Explain to me how a 4400 series f85 frame existed in 72?? Frames were NOT coded by model as the picture suggests.

The stencil is just throwing up all kinds of red flags. All it proves to me is that the restorers didn't do their homework. From 1968-1971 the 4400 series in the VIN was used to identify the 442 MODEL, but not in 72 - it simply didn't exist then, it was only an option. Look up the models and you'll see 3F, 3G, 3J for the 2 door Cutlass Lineup. The LAST 34400 prefixes were 1971. The ONLY 1972 442 that can be positively identified by the VIN is the W30, which had an X code in the motor slot.

With all due respect, show me how that frame stencil is right and I'll apologize, buy you a beer and retract my statement. If you want to see how Olds stamped their frames, here's a picture showing a 72 frame from Freemont (plant code Z). The only difference you'll find between plants is the letter code; all frames were roll stamped this way.


In addition to that, on the axle hump there was a 2 digit frame code sticker like this. You can find that info in some of the Assembly Manuals.


A comment on your comment/question about the original owner buying it at the age of 71. So what? Anyone who walks into a dealership with cash in hand, a flush check book, or good credit could drive out with a new car, same as today. His age isn't a factor in the sale of the car, $$$ is. He obviously had an eye for choosing a nice car and being able to enjoy it at his age!

My apologies for offending you. If you wish, I will remove my subscription from your thread and not post on it anymore. I do wish you success on your project and would love to see the finished project.

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

After cooling down.ive realized i may have became angry after your initial comments.The mvd guy is full of crap.maybe your delivery needs some thought.i felt offended.i only said what i was told and what i know about my car.because it is or isnt a 442 in anyones mind was not my mission to convince.i came to talk olds cutlass and see nice pics.maybe make a friend or two.so i apologize.i have a limited amount of patience for rude kids.obviously you are an adult and can reconcile any aggression.i only came here because i looked up info on cutlass and this site came up.i m not much for forums but i like this one.

Keegan

Welcome from another Flame Orange owner! It's the best color, you know.
Can't wait to see your project progress. Seems like it has a bit of a story. Haha!

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

Thanks Keegan! Im excited about the color too! Thanks for the pics and info Allan R.Its its helpful info.I didnt know the frame was stamped.

1972Cutlass442FlameOrange

And.nice cars both of you!

Allan R

Thank you for re-considering and coming back. Also thanks for the nice words about my car.

re: The mvd guy. You're right, I should have been more careful in my choice of words. I should have said it like this: I question his source of documenting your car's frame, because I know his information is wrong.

Anyway, that's not the hill to die on, and your point is well taken. I will endeavor to be more careful about my word choices in the future and try not to let my fingers just get carried away on the keyboard.

Let's carry forward on this theme as a start over point. I would love to see the car restored the way you want it, whether it can be proved as a W29 442 or not. There's lots of opportunity to share information and ask more questions/get answers. Bottom line is getting the car finished so you can cruise in style

I'm probably older than you and remember when Dad bought our first 72 off the showroom floor. I was in high school at the time and loved that he would let me drive it a fair bit. My dd at the time was a 67 Cutlass Towne Sedan with 330/Jetaway and 2.41:1 rear end, so hopping into a brand new 72 Cutlass S (basically what you have, but without the 442 badging) was a real treat. Very fond memories of growing up with that car.

After carefully re-reading your post I see you're retired army. I'd like to thank you for your service to your country. Military folks don't always get the recognition they deserve by a lot of today's folks. Look forward to more chats with you as your build progresses.

QMaster

Welcome aboard!