65442ragtop

Bought 65 442 37 years ago rust free, Its way past due. Car doesnt have original 400 has 425 instead in need of rebuild cant afford that with everything else going on, brake, tires wheels, paint, interior, new rag top, I have a rebuilt 350 chevy engine not in need of much considering putting it in. Question whats best approach on engine swap, tranny choices etc any help would be great

2blu442

Welcome to the site! If its a real 442 my first choice would be to find a 400 engine with a casting date that would be appropriate for your body. In 1965 they didn't put vin numbers on the block. A 442 ragtop with period correct drivetrain would be much more desirable than one with a chevy motor.

That said, we have a forum here for non-Olds powered engines. If you read through some of the posts there I believe you'll find many of the answers you need, as to what it takes to put a chevy motor into an Oldsmobile.

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/non-olds-powered/

Please post pictures of your car when you have time.

John

redoldsman

I usually don't get into these Chevy into Olds threads but I have to speak up on this one. It is your car and certainly you are free to do what you want. Putting a SBC into a 65 442 ragtop will seriously decrease the value of the car. John gave excellent advice. If nothing else, I would rebuild the 425 and wait on the paint. At the end of the day, you will probably spend about the same thing putting the SBC in as you will rebuilding the 425. Paint the 425 bronze and most people will think it came in the car.

2blu442

Or find a running Olds 350 to make it drive for now. They're a dime a dozen in my part of the country. Then when you have more time/money locate a 1965 400 engine to rebuild for it. I've got a 1965 442 frame that someone welded chevy motor mounts onto. That damaged the frame and will take some work to try and restore it for a 442 project. Your car, your choice but please think long term on this. Not only the value but demand/interest will be reduced by swapping something other than an Olds engine into it. John

65442ragtop

Thanks for reply s got me thinking rather put 425 back in and yes its a real 442 conv. 57000 miles bought it when I was 14 years old 51 now, motor need top end kit looked thru jegs and internet olds part lot higher than chevy kinda on a budget putting son thru college no loans, ya I know make him pay for it himself LOL

2blu442

Understand, college is spendy and its nice to try and help out. How much could you sell the chevy motor for? Maybe you could pick up a set of used heads that you could bolt on and run? New cam, lifters, gaskets, maybe oil pump and timing chain while you have it apart. How much do you think it would cost to do a budget job on the 425? What year/model did the 425 come out of? Some have the odd sized lifters which are expensive, but others have the more common one. What part of the country are you located in? An Olds 350 or 455 that's a runner may be a cheaper step for now. Get the car driving so you can enjoy it for the summer

John

oldcutlass

Welcome to the site, I agree that your 442 should stay Olds powered. You didn't mention whether it was an automatic or standard trans? I believe you would need a bell housing and most definitely a Chevy trans if its an automatic.


I would think if all you need to rebuild is the top end on your 425, it would be more economical than changing engines and all that is needed to do it. Especially if you have to freshen up your sbc.


If you feel that's what you must do I can go into great detail just pm me. Basically you need to treat it like a Chevelle, it will bolt right in.


We all like pictures.

oldstata

Welcome ! I agree with said above!

Yes olds parts are about double then Chevy. I have been rebuilding my 65 and have collected most bolt on upgrades for my 455 so once it's painted all I have to do is drop the block off at the machine shop and have it done with most of the cost bought over a period of time. Also check out parts for sell if you keep a eye out you can score new parts or used parts for cheap

X2 what trans does it have ?

joe_padavano

These questions always come up because someone needs an Olds motor rebuilt and has a Chevy laying around. Compare the cost of rebuilding that Olds with the cost of all new mounts, accessory brackets, transmission, exhaust, radiator, etc, etc to get the Chevy to fit.

As for the Olds, I don't know what you call a "top end kit", but if you mean the engine needs a valve job, pull the heads, take them to a shop, and get a FelPro gasket set. I bet you can have it running for under $500.

oldcutlass

A little more with a new timing chain and water pump.

joe_padavano

The car has 57,000 miles on it. These could be done at a later time.

oldstata

The motor is a 425 not the original 400.
But yes it could me done later I would do timing chain and possible cam depending on what is needed with top end work

joe_padavano

Fair enough. We don't know what the condition of the 425 is, and considering that it apparently needs a "top end job", you are right about the timing chain. The cam, however, is a MIGHTASWELL.

65442ragtop

figured i was on thin ice with suggestion of chevy in olds, I do agree needs to be olds power but set of heads, intake,push rods,lifters, cam, timing set, gasket set, bearings, rebuild carb and a lot o parts i left out, machine work, check block wont be long your up to 5k in a motor everything has set for almost 40 years needs gone thru maybe take to motor shop see exactly were i stand on rebuild and use original motor parts but as we all know the auto industry is a license to steal

2blu442

What part of the country/world are you located in? I could get you a good running used engine for a fraction of your rebuild costs. I could get you a 455 machine work and rebuild parts for about half your estimate, you'd still need to do the assembly. Still your car your call, but I think if you looked around you could find a cheaper way to make it drive with an Olds under the hood. John

oldstata

I think, there is a lot of parts your not looking at if you drop in the chev motor. you still need a trans and exhaust a bunch more little nickel and dime stuff.
I picked up two 455 off of a local sight kinda like Craig's list one running and one running when pulled, but was locked up both with th400 for under 800 for both. currently the locked up one has been torn apart, checked and ready for machine work to be rebuilt. And a set of rebuilt ka 455 heads for 50.00 bucks.
Either way you go, I would make a list of every part needed and weigh out your options what trans does your 65 have is it a 4 speed or the auto ?

nsnarsk65cutlass

It's your car do as you like,or budget allows, imo if it's a real 442 i'd keep it olds powered. If you chose to go the sbc route 64-67 Chevelle is bolt on for the most part and can be changed back.Transmission will not bolt up, the amount of work and dollars will add up.Your choice.

MDchanic

Look, you're not talking about putting in a ground-pounding built 454 here, you're talking about putting in a Chev. 350.
If you're happy enough with a Chev. 350, then why not just pick up a running Olds 350 for between $50 and $500 (depending on luck and your location, which you still haven't told us), and be done with it?
It's easier to install, and would be cheaper than changing all of the things you'd need to change in order to destroy the value of your low-mileage car with a Chev. motor.

- Eric

joe_padavano

You say you are on a tight budget, so how much of this is stuff you WANT to buy verses stuff you NEED to buy? You don't NEED a new intake, for example. Also, your first problem is looking for Olds parts at a Chevy-centric like Summit or Jegs. If you want new heads, your most cost effective option is new Proform aluminum heads ported by Bernard Mondello. Used aftermarket Olds intakes can be bought for about $100. Cam and lifters are a few hundred. Allowing $1500 for the heads, you can still get this car running pretty well for under $3K, and less than half of that without the heads.

65442ragtop

Thanks for excellent advice from members, Won me over going to try to stay with olds power just need to figure out how not to put 30k in a 20k car. Recently saw at a local car auction 65 442 hardtop bring 15k when guy had 25k in it.(people want belly button cars camaro and chevelles) So here a little more in tell to keep hopefully the good advice coming. As I stated not original motor 425 instead of 400 also the other only non stock Item is tranny, Someone 2 guys b4 me put 4 speed in and did poor job at that car is automatic original so crank didn't have pilot bushing so they drove one in and a spacer that i haven't got out yet, wanting to go back auto so rear end gears and drive shaft work right. would rather stay with big block,got a mess to straighten out, car is solid body floor pans trunk etc. shows 57300 miles I bought from a neighbor who only had for a real short time wasn't a mechanic don't know what happened b4 him to make someone change out parts like they did ran then but a lot vibration in drive-train.I live in midwest zip 62330 if local olds enthusiastic can help with part searches.[IMG][/IMG]

oldstata

How much does the body need ? Pics we love pics also the cow tag shows the 4v witch is a real 442 check the frame as it should have adjustable rear upper links so it should have 4 holes on the frame also check out bro442.com

I am building a clone on a budget if you want check out my threat I am currently under way with body

Look up " kids helping with project "

65442ragtop

https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...dsc01943-2.jpg Body in good shape this is theeasy part pans all good, Drivetrain what got me worried $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

oldcutlass

You got a picture that is maybe a lil bit bigger? I would try and keep the 4 speed.

oldstata

Drive train isn't that bad depending on what you want I am looking at 3k for my complete rebuild pan to intake. If I assemble my self that will save me around 800. I am just building a little better than stock tho. I had a buddy rebuild my trans I think with parts and paying him I am in it 300.00

Body work is expensive and time consuming if it's good your golden.
If you want to convert back to auto depending on condition and what 4 speed trans it has it could pay for a chunk of your bill

65442ragtop

New to posting pictures on site of coarse nothing easy had to change pixel to lower count if you look in my album larger picture should be there if I did it right

oldstata

Have you tried to get it running ?
If it does why do you think it needs top end work ?

I only ask because I bought mine not running needing timing chain lol
All I did was towed it home rewired like a olds instead of a Chevy and adjusted the points
From there the floats were sticking causing it to idle up and down changed carb ran like a dream

TK-65

From looking at that very tiny pic of the cowl tag, your car was NOT an automatic from the factory. 2LG means it had a 4 speed with floor console.

oldstata

Now this opens up another question can you take a pic of the block number above the water pump and what letters are on the heads? It could be the original and miss represented as a 425

65442ragtop

If you go to albums look under block id 65 olds 442 open that there 4 pics in there, to right says owner(65442ragtop) they should be public new to site can others see full size pics there looks good on my end, as always thanks motor doesnt have right size crank bore for input shaft will look up 2lg

oldstata

Yes you have a D block should be a B see what head letter is on them it's possible they used the A heads

2blu442

I'm with Oldstata on this. A previous owner may have damaged the block and put parts onto the 425 block. I've never seen a 425 with a manual transmission crankshaft, but the 400 crankshaft would work in the 425 block. They shared the same stroke, just different bores.

Here's a set of A heads. What's on your 425?
P1010078.jpg


It could have A heads from the 400 or a 1965 425. If it has A heads check the application code stamped on the end of one of the heads. If they were originally in a 442 the stamp would start with the letter V like this one
P5210826.jpg

Check it out on your car and let us know what you find. John

TK-65

Nothing to look up, the car was a 4 speed when new. Might have the original trans in it. There will be a VIN stamped into the trans. Some google searching will tell you exactly what trans you have and where it came from.

I hate to tell you this but you have probably the most costly 442 to restore. If the engine is going to bankrupt your budget my suggestion would be to sell the car and find another already done.

oldstata

Just remember check both sides of both heads for the v code as it was only stamped on one side of one head


The 65 has a lot of pot metal that is costly to have fixed/ rechromed on some cases, like on the rear panel the textured chrome has to be painted because most/all (from the post I've read) shops can't duplicate it and very little repop/ after Market parts made.
Also convertibles are more money, but if your body, top and interior is good drive train can be done unless your trying to restore as a " correct " restoration. as most people have there own version of what's correct and what's not, so I won't even go there
Edit :
Also you described a vibration and john mentioned not seeing a 425 with a crank drilled for a manual trans . Three possible action could of happened they rebuilt the 425 and drilled the crank properly or they drilled still in the car ( scary ) or they could have cut part of the input shaft ? On the 4 speed trans to Acomendate

MDchanic

To reduce everyone's frustration level, here are the four pictures the OP posted in his "Album" section:











65442Ragtop, you will get more and better responses if you put your photos where people can see them, rather than leaving cryptic unpunctuated remarks about their locations ("If you go to albums look under block id 65 olds 442 open that there 4 pics in there, to right says owner(65442ragtop) they should be public new to site can others see full size pics there looks good on my end,").

- Eric

65442ragtop

sorry for cryptic unpunctuated remarks on pic but truly appreciate you posting them in link like i said new to site had trouble with pics (had to reduce pixel rate etc. b4 site would take them) You guys dont know how grateful I am on helping me trying to figure out what happened 40 years ago on this car, will keep researching and asking Questions Thanks

oldcutlass

Your starting out with a pretty solid car. As John stated above, it's also a very expensive car in general to restore. Eating an elephant is accomplished 1 bite at a time.

65442ragtop

more pics, I think tranny is correct for car, heads a B, 3rd pic is were they tried to make 4sd out of 425 drove a pilot bushing in a sleeve which when you tighten tranny bolts engine wont turn over, going to add more pics on another post with some ?s

65442ragtop

66400 could of that tranny been used in the 65 also, short block good, motor turns over by hand, cylinder walls not scored heads rebuild able but 425 not a 4sd motor were do I go from here, a little ashamed of post title with chevy implant, can I use these mix match parts to put together big block somewhat correct for car?

66400

Your transmission main case casting number ending in 010 will be a 66-67 transmission case. 64-65 main case number will end in 325.

Henry

65442ragtop

he who seeks wisdom is his own best riend