dc2x4drvr

The plastic "flange" is .470 wide
Distance from the line up tab to hole .464
The tab is .245 from edge of flange

What I would consider is removing the speed nuts and gently bending the tab, like the originals, this might give you enough clearance for installation. just my .02

507OLDS

Yes,that I what I was wondering.Why didn't they bend them over like the originals.I will still get some pictures.
Another problem might be the material the new ones are made of might not be as pliable,and you might end up snapping the ends off.They might have already figured that out,so they put the speed clips on.
My experience with other repop diecast & aluminum is just that.It is too brittle to manipulate.

Chumley

The grilles are original '72 Supreme grilles. They are at the right depth in relation to the trim on the hood, the holes just don't line up. As far as I can tell, the brackets look original to the car(it was not a 442) I was thinking about drilling new holes like you mentioned, but it's just more work. The hood is all the way down, flush with the tops of the fenders, so I can't really lower it any more. Maybe I'll just leave it for now and fix it in the spring. I'll try to get some pictures posted. Thanks for your input. Chumley

507OLDS

Those metal brackets for the outer tabs do have some adjustability,but not much for up/down,just side to side.

Allan R

Ok, so I think we found the problem. It's with the distance between the line up tab and the top bright work peg. The peg is way to close to the tab. I'm thinking that it needs to lose the whole fastener and get the bright work glued down. The other tabs on the repop won't interfere with the installation.

Anyone have good connections with Fusicks? I doubt they will fix the problem as it will cause them to re-tool for the mold and bright work. That's aftermarket for you - modify to fit.

507OLDS

I don't trust any glues to work forever.Everything that worked great in the past is no longer available,since the treehuggers came along.
Can you grind the pin down,but leave enough pin for the speed ring to bite onto?
Could you possibly mushroom or split the pin,spreading it out to grab the plastic,so the molding can't pull away from the grille?

Allan R

Brian, I get what you mean but here's the crappy part. Look at the pic of the OEM below and notice how far from the line up tab the trim (folded) tab is. Then take a look at the position of the tab on the repop and comments below




according to dc2x4 that gap from the line up to the folded tab is .47" On mine the gap is .187". So when I put the line up tab into the stone shield the following happens:
1. The tab will slide into the proper alignment slot.
2. The reveal trim peg sits tight right against the alignment slot, but acts as a block and prevents the grill from pivoting into alignment.
3. The rest of the mounting tabs can be gently eased into position.
4. Proper alignment is not possible because the (2) reveal peg won't allow the grill to pivot enough. Another 1/8" of clearance and I'll be it would go.

When I got the DS grill 'mounted' the top end had the proper spacing on the stone shield. But the bottom was out by about .25". So that tab makes it line up cockeyed.

Grinding the peg down doesn't help because the speed nut at the base of the reveal peg wedges against the alignment slot too. I really think the peg is in the wrong spot. In the OEM one, the peg is bend down away from the alignment slot which allows unfettered (hey there's a word you don't use every day) movement of the grill to swing into place for the mounting tabs.

Now what I've experimented with and found out works best for install is this.
Insert the line up tab of the grill into the stone shield. Gently ease the left side mounting tabs over the stone shield securements. Then repeat for the lower tabs.
Ok, we know the tabs are metal because skryla dremels his down and found they were. So I'm wondering if I pop the speed nut off, what's the best way to bend this tab down?

Chumley

I'm not having the same problems you guys are with your 442 grilles, but here are a few pictures of what I've been posting about. (except the center metal bracket problem) I have a couple of the alignment tabs broken off as well, as you can see on the driver side. Expose's the stoneshield slot a little, but I'll address that later. I also discovered today that my hood bumpers(on the fenders) are preventing the hood from coming any lower to close the gap a little more. Oh well, at least she has her original "face" back.

Allan R

Chumley,
The gap you're looking for is .25" +/- .10. If your gap is .35" (about 3/8") If you're close to that don't worry. What I'd be more concerned about is that horrible gap on the bumper to filler. There's lots of wiggle room on the braces. Looks like you have the drivers side lined up, but the passengers is waaay off. What's with the bumper on the floor?

Just a suggestion for you if you don't want to ruin the paint. Put down about 3 layers of green painters tape over the areas where the bumper will go. In dry fitting, if it slips it wont damage the paint.

507OLDS

Yes,the whole bumper needs pushed inward,but I can only assume he is leaving it out to give him room to work.
Is it possible,that there is a slight bend downward,on your core support top spear.If so,when you mount the center of the stone shield,then everything along with it,all the parts are now located slightly lower than the desired height,giving you a larger gap from the hood.
The driver's side grille pulling away from the center of the stone shield:At first it looks like just the trim,but if you compare the gap from the upper corner of the passenger side grile,to the gap of the upper corner of the driver's side grille,it looks like the whole driver's side grille needs to slide over towards the center.The metal L-shaped brackets that attach to the outer tabs on the grilles can be slid left or right,so maybe a slight adjustment towards the center will remedy that.However,you also need to watch the alignment of the outer edge of the grill,to the vertical rail on the headlight plastic.If it helps at all,both the headlight assembly,and the headlight plastic,can be slid left or right,to aid in alignment as well.
It looks like everything is fairly close,so I think you're doing real well.I've seen much much worser,and it was left alone to look hideous.
When I reassembled my 72 after paint,I was reinstalling all of the oriiginal,undamaged pieces,grilles,stone shield,headlight assemblies,headlight plastics,etc.,and I had to get real finnicky with my parts too,just to get them back on there the way they were originally,and look perfect.
AllanR,
Thank you for those 2 pictures of the different studs.That is a whole new ballgame.I didn't realize that one of the problems was the different position of the repop stud.If I were in that situation,I might find mint or NOS original trims,redrill the grills for the GM trim stud holes,and reattach the GM trims to the repop grilles.
I need to get set of those problem grilles in my hands,to see what I can do.

Allan R

Brian,
Interesting idea. Since they are metal they should be 'polishable'? Only concern I would have with OEM mint used reveal is : How sturdy is that tab that needs to be bent over? If it's been bent 2X (install/removal) would the metal fatigue cause it to break on the next install?

I'm still inclined to just grind it down to nothing and use some JB Weld to hold the trim in place. The first step of course would be to dry fit; never know if any of the other tabs might need some attention too.

re: getting ahold of some grills? No problem: call Fusicks and tell them you're a product tester and need some of these for market evaluation and product recommendations. I'm sure they would be willing to send a few pairs your way...

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Anyone know where i can get this trim that's supposed to go around the edge of my grill??

Some of the tabs are broken off mine. And Fusick wants 60 bucks for a pair

dc2x4drvr

Another thought, since Fusick sells the trim, ask them to measure from the top edge to the mounting post, maybe there's been a production change ??

507OLDS

I am curious to know if the seprate trim is the same as the trim that comes on the grilles.You just never know.Nothing new to me.I have to piece everything together to get it correct.

70Post

Here's a couple pics of the backside of the Fusick trim and some used GM originals. Notice the different location on the bottom tab on one end.

Lady72nRob71

Great comparison pics - very useful!

Geez... And people wonder why I do not like repops.
I wonder myself, WHY could these not have been engineered just like the originals??

Schne442

Could it be possible that GM still holds licensing on all these parts and so if the repopers make a slight change somewhere on the part then they dont have to pay GM ? Another reason to kill all lawyers

507OLDS

Every reproduction part has to be different in some way,shape,or form.Some differences are noticable than others,or a pain in the ***,like this one.

If you think you guys have a challenge,try starting from scratch,like I did with this aluminum core support that I had fabbed.The pictures of my car at the track,is with the factory support,and all the original front pieces,everything arrow straight & crisp.Then I decide to mess with it,install the aluminum support,and begin the process of mocking,measuring,drilling,some swearing,more fitting,a little more swearing,mri of brain,to determine why I did this,more fitting & fidgeting,and finally,I did get everything back in place,the way it should be.I need to take a new,finished photo.
Do not do this,and if you do,do NOT do this on a painted car.I didn't scratch or chip anything,but way to aggrevating.
Aluminumcoresupport001.jpg

Allan R

Patton, thx for the great comparison pics. That's exactly what I was trying to get at with my comments. The OEM is far enough away from the line up tab to allow proper fitment.

It sounds like you have some experience with these. Would you recommend grinding off the repop tab and gluing down (or maybe 2 sided tape) the trim to stone shield?

Also, what installation method do you use? Do you start with lining up the 'inner' side and work out? I'd love to know if it's the same as what I came up with.

skryla

The tab the holds the driver's side in place is broken. Either the slot on the stone shield (like what happened to mine) split OR the tab on the grill broke off.

I have a pic of my fix somewhere in this thread above. Also, look at the grinding I had to do to get the grills to fit. Mine FINALLY fits perfect. The process WAS NOT pretty.

skryla

I ground the repops just above the fastner and then put some epoxy on them for good measure.

70Post

I don't think the "have to make changes in parts to reproduce them" argument is true. Besides, these long time repro vendors have been known about FOR YEARS by GM and its licensing and legal staff. And, they've gone after people before on parts, etc.

A number of other factors make me think that reasoning doesn't work. Whether it's a design patent or whatever, it's only good for so many years and I sort of doubt GM spent the $ to renew patents on jillions of parts that 1) they don't make any more and, 2) for cars they haven't produced in decades.

On top of that, from my experience, the law here is not so ill-defined to let very minor changes open the door to outright copying of a device, part, etc. Typically, "the law" sees right through these attempts and calls BS on that sort of activity (if asked to via a lawsuit). Sure, there may be a fine line there somewhere but I've seen the "make a couple minor changes and copy away" reasoning for years and don't buy it.

Anyway....grille surrounds were the subject weren't they? . I think they just made a mistake on the placement of that tab/post...that simple.

Otherwise, when I looked over this part I could have sworn it was an original GM part as it has all the features of the originals. The same slight "texture" from the extrusion process, the same "chipped away" area that leaves the posts/tabs exposed, etc, etc. Pretty much perfect in my book other than that tab.

Trimming and some good epoxy should hold it in place there. I haven't gone through the grille/stone shield assembly process yet on a '71/2 car so I can't be of much help there.

Or....you could drill, tap and screw in VERY SMALL screws into the backside of that alum trim like I did on a used set...followed up with some epoxy for good measure. Just make sure you are drilling into the thickest part of the trim piece!!

Sorry about the diatribe above but that argument's been bugging me for years and I don't think it's valid.

507OLDS

I understand,but sometimes there is a part that is blatently obvious,where others are subtle.If they used an actual GM part,for the tooling or molds,then wouldn't it have ALL of the correct accents,holes,tabs,or whatever.When they made this trim,where did they get the idea to place the pin in that location?Did they used a piece that had it missing,or did they slice the original tabs off for tooling or mold purposes?
It is a similar situation with Troy's hoods.I have had a few,and they are great,and very hard to distinguish from an OEM,but there are those few 1/4" holes in the steel,and the sides of the scoops that are not on his,or his earlier ones.To me,that is a much simpler part of the process.He was able to remake the molds for the hood,and remake the steel bottoms,but you can't put those small holes in?I just figured it was a legality thing.Another part is the OAI bases.They look exact to the novice eye,but the spotwelding process is different.Can't that be made the same?I guess I just dunno.

skryla

I spoke too soon. I repaired the passenger side with steel (above) and now that it's all assembled for a few days, the stress broke the dirvers side. The bumper is istill off. I have to take that damn stone shield off again don't I?

Do I also need to remove the headlight surrounds? HELP!

70Post

That sucks Stan!! I seem to remember now that a set of customer's '72 442 grilles I have here almost seemed to shed these little posts/tabs just sitting there in one of my rooms. He sent them over and I did mess with the grilles some. Was on the phone with him at a later date and picked up one grill side and it looked like more tabs had broken off just sitting there.

The posts/tabs are slightly UNDERCUT (ie thinner) for the portion that passes through the grill plastic. Done intentionally to create a weak spot in the post/tab so it will bend at that part of the post. Looks like it's a coin toss as to whether or not these things will survive even one bending.

Brian had suggested trying to split and spread the things....problem there is the weak "undercut" area may get further weakened from the force.

On a the used set of '72 Supreme grills I sold awhile back I did the "small screws and epoxy" on a few spots and ALSO added some good 3M two sided emblem tape b/n the backside of the alum molding and the grill frontside. If anyone tries this I would recommend sanding the paint off the grill plastic and getting all parts super clean before finally pressing it together with any tape. Figured the tape had a better shot of holding to the grill plastic if it was touching bare plastic instead of a lightly painted surface.

Pic shows one of the very small screws I installed on those grill...followed up with some epoxy in that area as well.

>You can see the spot where the post/tab was in the pic...it's to the L of the screw.

>The screw itself was installed into the deepest/thickest part of the molding to allow the threads to go into the molding a decent amount.

>I probably globbed epoxy onto the screw threads as well before finally installing them.

covertolds

I installed a set from Fusick in my '72 a couple of years ago. Went in without any hassles at all.

I wasn't to happy when I seen they were made in China or Taiwan though.
P1020331.jpg

P1020334.jpg

Allan R

I think the answer is yes to both questions.

Chumley

When I first put the new bumper on, I had it lined up perfectly(without the grille on) but when I put it back on I could not get it to move toward the car. Which brackets do the adjusting on that? Oh, the bumper on the floor is the old original one. I just store it there until I can get rid of it. Also I just noticed that the driver side picture of the headlight surround is reversed! Notice the "Oldsmobile" script. Guess I hit a wrong key when I was shrinking the photo.

Allan R

Hey Chumley,
The braces all have elongated holes to help with the alignment. Start by lining up the bumper horizontally. Then adjust the position of the bolt in the elongated brace that needs it. If you find you're still too far away from the body, don't forget that the main bumper bracket that attaches to the frame also has elongated holes to get the bumper in the right spot. Look on page 14-1 of the CSM

DENT

I bin reading this thread , I think I might be in for some fun too. My car come with one of those grills also,( still in the box).

Allan R

Henry, how close are you to actually fitting/installing them in the stone shield? Are your's From Fusick or someone else? It would be interesting to know if all the other co's bought their repops from Fusick..

You know where I've identified the problem metal trim, have a look at yours and see if it's in the same place.

DENT

I'm a long way from installing the grill. When I bought the car it come with new grills , bumpers , door handles , weather strips , exhaust tips and some other stuff I can't think of right now, all of it from Fusick. It looks like good quality but I'v had nothing but bad experience with Fusick ever since , so having trouble with there stuff dose not surprise me.

allyolds68

I've been following this thread and I have yet to see someone post what Fusick's response has been to this problem. skryla said he was going return them but apparently ended up modifying them. I'm guessing Fusick said to return them for a complete credit & they don't have a solution.

I can tell you from experience that if Fusick doesn't have a solution, no one else does either because they generally carry the best reproductions (generally there isn't more than one company reproducing a part anyway) and when things don't fit they either stop carry the part or they put a note on their description saying that modifications will be required to get the part to fit.

I'll say that I've never had one problem with Fusick. I bought a shifter boot that fell apart after installing it (which was over a year after I bought it) and they sent me a new one without a question.

Allan R

Sorry to hear that Henry. It's a surprise to hear about a bad experience with them, do you mind me asking what it was?

You're right. If skryla doesn't post a response in the next week, I will send Fusick an email and ask them if they have a solution; I have their grills too. I also have never had problems with Fusicks. This is the first time I've had one of their products that doesn't work fairly well right out of the box.

skryla

I purchased a Fusick Grill set from another vendor. Fisicks was very nice when I called but said that they have sold hundreds of these with no problems. My fix is posted above. Now that the other side has broken too, I will probably pull the grills and fix the other side of the stone guard after the show. I can see the shift, but I'm hoping the judges won't notice. I would fix it now but I have too many areas to finish and not enough time. No way to shortcut the fix.

DENT

I sent you a PM.

alek72us

I have had a couple problems with fusick also.
1 i ordered a stripe stencil kit, it was old and dried out so the stencils (stickers) wouldn't come off the back paper. also the instructions said "like the pics supplied" there were no pics. i called fusick they were very nice but told me i needed to talk to the people they ordered the stencil thru (abc stencil or something like that). which i did but they told me i needed to talk to the people i ordered thru. so it never got fixed and i don't have side stripes.

2. when i ordered my trunk spoiler. the tip of it was all chipped off. i called them sent them pics and there response was "what ur body man can't fix that" which is what ended up happening. but still u spend that much just to have to pay ur body man that much more to fix it?

i did just order the fusick grills. they were from fusick on ebay with the numbers for 299$ i will probably have the same problem u guys are having.
have any of u guys tried the fusick grills with the fusick center stone shield. just wondering if they line up. my stone shield is not from fusick. just a thought.

Hoffman2099

I'm in the same boat as you guys. Tried fitting the grilles into a reproduction stone shield and the tabs were getting in the way. Tried bending the tabs and they broke off very easily.

Feel like just breaking all the tabs off and use double sided tape to keep the trim on. Also wondering if I do that will the grilles actually fit in the stone shield because the bolt holes where the shield and grille meet are way off.

Also for anyone looking for new 72 tail lights go find some originals because the reproduction ones are way off. The uppers look like crap while the bottoms look some what close to originals. Emailed Fusick but I doubt they will do anything.

Allan R

If you've broken the upper tab (closest to the center of the SS off) the grill should go into place without much trouble. Start by lining up the line up tab with the stone shield slot, gently slide it down into position. The lower mounting tab will have to be gently eased over the back of the SS. Once you've done this, the rest of the grill will line up pretty much ok. Its that first part of the install that determines the success of the second step. If you find the tabs are in the way? Just grind them down about 1/8" and they should fit no problem. The only tab I have difficulty with is the upper one closest to the alignment slot. Good to know that the bright work tabs will break instead of bending.

Hoffman2099

The location of the three broken tabs are pictured below. But it still doesn't fit right. The bottom left corner where its rounded doesn't conform to the SS very well.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/grille1t.jpg/