skryla

I have a set I'm trying to install and having rough time.

Allan R

BINGO!! Me too. Have a new stone shield because mine is cracked. Are you by any chance having trouble around the tab that's supposed to slide into the little alignment slot at the top center of the stone shield?? I have a theory about this, but first need to know where your fitment issue is. I'm able to get the outside, and lower tabs pretty darn close. It's the center ones I'm struggling with too! LMK, maybe we can work this out together. Mine are out in the garage right now. I can bring them in to warm up and take some pics of the alignment problem. I'll show you mine if you show me yours

skryla

Are you by any chance having trouble around the tab that's supposed to slide into the little alignment slot at the top center of the stone shield?? YES


First I'm calling Steve from Fusick tomorrow. See if he has a fix.

If not, then, I'm taking my dremel cutting all those little tabs off the Tiawan brightwork, right down to the fastners. The original brightwork has screws that mount almost flush. If I do that, it should allievate most of the fitment issues. If not, they're going back! and I'll just restore my originals!

Allan R

Can you post a picture of the OEM grill showing the fasteners? I'd like to see what you mean by the fasteners fit almost flush with screws. If you don't mind me asking, why are you replacing OEM ones?

Here are pics of the issues I am having
The right side is no problem, but the lineup of the lower and center is a major PITA


This is ONE of the major hang ups. The alignment tab will not fit into the slot because the brightwork attaching post is in the way.




It seems like all the recessed areas that correspond to the brightwork fastening locations aren't 'deep' enough to accept the grill. Personally I think the plastic tabs are too long - much like you said.


These tabs are the problem as far as I can see. If you grind them down to the fastener the clip might pop off. I'm really tempted to grind it right off and use JB Weld to attach the brightwork. It will never come off again though.


Is this what you're finding? I'd like to know what Steve has to say about this. I can't imagine they've not run into this complaint before. These repops are the same ones as being sold by Year One, Parts Place, BAP and OPG

Lady72nRob71

Trust me, they will say YOURS is the only complaint they ever got.
Much like the issues of my ill-fitting, substandard power window regs...

Those grilles look so nice - too bad they will not fit!

Allan R

No worries bud, I will find a way to make them fit. It's not the grill that's the problem its the brightwork fasteners. Got a real screamin deal on them (299 inc numbers and shipping) so it's worth my while to spend some time massaging them. Did Lady have them already installed when you got her or did you do that yourself? IIRC she had them......are they OEM or repops?

Lady72nRob71

Lady's were on there when I got her. She looks to have been 'cloned' MANY years ago, before repops were ever made. I am guessing 15 years ago at least.
I am thinking they were pulled from junkyard cars, as they show their age and one grille looks much better than the other paint-wise.

skryla

Has anyone ever restored a set of grills? What mfg and colors did you use for the black and silver?

Lady72nRob71

Here is a recent thread...
https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...storation.html

Gary's 2 442-S

I recently installed grill,stone shield,headlight housing molding on my 72 442. The grills did come from Fusick which i bought from them about 3 years ago. I think the stone shield came from Tamraz. I did not have much of a problem when I put it together but I was very careful not to put a lot of pressure on any of the parts when connecting everything. I also had bought a grill hardware kit which had all the screws and fastsners in there which really help out tremendously. I kept everthing loose until I had everyhing aligned,then I they were tightened. The problem that I did have was when I attached the # 2 on the grill, It would bend down,put I finaly got it.

jpc647

what!? how? :/

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Those grilles musta been restored by one crafty devil

I really hope i'll be able to get my car to a car show next year so i can compare my grilles with some of your OEM's for paint colour.

I shall be going through this soon too. I should be giving scott a call for a new stone shield as the one on my car is completely finished. He said he's got a few nice looking ones but he'll have to check.

Allan R

It was the deal of the century. Just happened to find it at the right time! I think it was a XMAS special or something. The deal online said that after a certain date, the price would go up (what's new?) so I hopped on that like a hobo bound for Tupalo. In simple terms? I was just lucky. I've had these things hanging around for the last 3 or so years. Now I have time to work on the car.

Allan R

Any updates on this? What did Steve have to say? Can you please post pics of the OEM grills and the reveal molding fasteners?

I have an idea for the repro grills. If I dremel the plastic down to just over the metal collar, I can heat a small knife up really hot and press the plastic flat against the clip that holds it. That should give a smooth surface and also keep the clip from popping loose. Your thoughts?

When I bought these grills, they just came in a box with plastic wrap around them. Numbers and fasteners were in a separate baggie. There were no instructions included. Do they still ship them the same way, or is there now an instruction sheet? They should include something to advise of this issue because not everyone is a bodyman or knows the trick of fitting grills to stone shield.

Lady72nRob71

Allan, are you kidding? An instruction sheet? I cannot recall getting any repro parts with an instruction sheet. Heck, my lousy power window kit and hood lock kit did not even come with one.
I DO beleive most of this stuff SHOULD though. Of course then, they would have to actually try mounting them and reveal all the "modify to fit" procedures...
I cannot even get a set of hood bumpers that did not require major resizing...

Allan R

I guess most of my past is showing through. I used to lead discussions with the various workgroups at work and develop policy/procedures for them. This also included some technical training docs. We went of the basis that to be in the position you had to have base knowledge. We just expanded it from there.
With aftermarket parts, I agree that some don't need a blueprint or an instruction. But when you get to the complicated issues of how parts are intended to fit, I think there should be some 'recommended guidelines' included. Yours to use or disregard. At least that way the manufacturer can claim due dilgence was adhered to in the design, marketing and distribution of the product. Plus like you say, it would also develop the product better to deal with some 'flaws'.

skryla

These repro grills are junk. Not even close to the originals. I had to dremmel the brightwork tabs off and still no luck (they are metal). Check out the placement of the tabs. Notice the originals have screws holding the brightwork on. The repro brightwork has tabs. Original is to the left. Notice the clearance between the tab on the original and then on the repop. It may not seem like a lot, but just try to get it to fit properly.

I had to grind parts off my OEM stone guard just to get the repro grills to line up (photos 2,3 & 4).

I got it all to fit and then when I bolted it up, it broke the tab off the stone guard. Boy was I PO'd.

I then had to fabricate a piece of steel to replace the broken part off the stone guard. It should work.

Right now I trying to work out a deal where the seller takes the repro stuff back and refinishes some oiginal grills as a swap.

I'll keep you up to date.

skryla

On more pic of the repair

Lady72nRob71

Ouch... Looks like a painful process.
Looks like we have a good way to ID the repros from the reals.
I now know I will restore mine!

skryla

On a positive note, I finished restoring the seats with all new springs. Going to be reupholstered tomorrow.

Pics at the (OPEN) facebook link below. You don't need an account.

Allan R

Any chance you could shoot a pic of the original 442 bright trim fastener screw? I'm wondering if I can just grind the repro tab off, including the spring and fasten it with small screws as per OEM. I'd need to know how deep the screw bites into the bright trim too. Don't want to break that slot in the SS if the molding fastener is still too high.

Looked at the FB album - great job on the resto. Looks immaculate. Gotta ask about the spindle. I see you painted orange and a light blue on the top and inside. Curious about why? When I restored my spindles, there was GREEN pain on 2 locations of the spindle, both on the back which I tried to duplicate on my rebuild. Did your car have the orange/blue to start with?



NB: this is dry fitment, not torqued.

skryla

There were traces of these colors on mine. I guess it depends which plant, which shift, and what colors they have available!

Allan R

Kind of what I thought. My car is Lansing built April 10, 72 Where was yours built?

skryla

Lansing first week of May

Allan R

Wow! Bet the VINs last 6 are close...I've got 3G87H2M208783 - Cutlass S originally with an H code 160hp 2bbl. I'm guessing yours will be 3J67U2M2XXXXX?

442_Mustang

My VIN is 3G87M2N208296. How do I know when mine was cobbled together? lol...

Allan R

Are you serious??? The only difference between yours and mine in VIN is that yours has a 4bbl 350. I would bet it was built on the same day as mine, or the day before.
Mine was built on April 7, 72 How do I know? I have the broadcast sheet for it. BTW if your car was Lansing built your VIN should be 3G87M2M208296. There is no code N for production plants. Didn't you take your car apart and rebuild it a while back? There should have been something like this stuck under a seat, kickpanel or door panel? Maybe on top of the gas tank??

Tony72Cutlass'S'

Mine is 3G87H2M146740.

Long live the 2bbl cutlass 's' !!!!

442_Mustang

I honestly don't remember finding that broadcast sheet. I had some help from my kids tearing it apart and it was a long time ago. I do have the origional window sticker and bill of sale. Sold at Ladendorf Motors in Des Plaines Illinois.How many did they build in a day?
And yeah, it was a 350/4bbl/4 speed. I have the orgional engine on a stand right behind my car right now. I pulled the heads and stuff a couple years ago and checked the cam as well. There's a funky ground mark on the hub of the cam for the 350 manual transmissions cars and mine has it. I think that's kind of neat. Bet it is some double secret racing grind... lol
My other car is out in the back yard and I believe it was built in California . I will have to go find that number some time.:-)
Thanks

allyolds68

From daveh:

Once the line was up to full speed, at 96-98 cars per hour in Lansing (starting in the 1970 model year), we were building over 1600 cars per day, often 6 days a week and sometimes 10 hour shifts.

442_Mustang

Allyolds, Did you work at Oldsmobile? If so, did you know of the Sattazans? (I think that's how they spelled it.)

507OLDS

Interesting topic on the grilles.I have a pair of NOS grilles in the box,a real nice pair of the originals off my 442,and a repop set that I bought from Fusick,to go on my 72 Supreme.I'm not saying that screw is not original,but I don't ever remember seeing that on my originals.I am wondering if the tab broke off,and a stubby screw was used in it's place.I'll look at all of mine.As for my repops,I don't have those bulky studs with speed-nut washers either.The tabs are bent over,just as the originals.I DID check that,when I inspected the grilles when I recieved them,so I knew whether to keep them or not.I would NOT modify my stoneshield,even on my supreme,as it is the original piece to the car,and is perfect.I guess I need to sprawl all of my grilles out & take some notes of any differences.I just wanted the look of the recessed 442 grilles on my Supreme.My originals are perfect.
As for those matching body numbers,that's a little weird,and doesn't make a lot of sense.Even if they have a different engine code,they are supposed to have a different sequence of numbers.If you really have matching VINS like that,then the stamped numbers on your engine block & trans are identical to each other,being 32M208296.

Allan R

Hey Brian, can you post a picture showing how the tabs are bent over? That would be really helpful. thx

Chumley

Did you guys run into problems with the grille support brackets (in the center of the radiator support)? I installed a refurbished set of '72 Supreme grilles on a new stoneshield. When I attached the grilles to the support, the stoneshield would not go back far enough on the head light surrounds to allow bolting them into place. (about 1/2 inch too short from holes on the radiator support) So I just bolted the surrounds in place and will deal with the center brackets later. All are original parts except the stoneshield. Took me the better part of 5 hours getting the grille installed(including dropping and reinstalling the bumper) Chumley

Allan R

Fun isn't it? I believe your problem is that you need to install the stoneshield BEFORE you put the headlight surrounds on. See pages 120 and 124 of the 72 Assembly manual. Not sure if I'm understanding your description right, but I definitely understand the frustration.

507OLDS

the stone shield,grilles,and the center support basicly interlock with each other.With the inner set of tabs on the grilles,one tab is fastened to the stone shield,and the other tab is fastened to the center support. The 2 tabs along the bottom attach to the stone shield,2 tabs along the top attach to core support,and the outer tabs fasten to the metal L-shaped bracket,next to the lights,on the core support.the headlight surrounds have a small pocket,that hooks over the stone shield,and is often broke off,so maybe yours are missing.The grilles also have tabs on the outer edges,that hook into the headlight surrounds.The slots in the headlight surrounds are also often broken.

Chumley

The stone shield and surrounds are new. All of the top tabs on the grilles are gone, but the ones that attach to that metal bracket are there. When everything is together, the holes on the grille tabs are about 1/4 inch off from the j-nut holes. I'll try to get some pictures. Another problem I discovered today is that when the hood is down, there is about a 1/2 inch gap between the grille trim and the hood trim. Seems like the whole grille assembly should come up that much, but there is no way to adjust that (at least that I could tell). Alan, I believe I did get the shield/grille in place before mounting the surrounds, but how would that make a difference in those center brackets lining up with the tabs on the grille? Chumley

Allan R

Honestly Chumley, I don't know. I'm going through this process too. For right now I was going by what the 72 Assembly manual shows. It has the grills going in first, which I assume is required to make the stoneshield line up right with the hood. See the little ridges on the end of the stone shield? They go underneath the headlight surrounds. I suspect if you put the surrounds in first you could break the end of the stone shield by prying up on it to slip it into position?

As far as how it lines up with the hood gap? That's not adjustable on the stone sheild - it's adjustable on the hood alignment from what I can see.

re: the 1/4" gap on the the metal brackets? Are you replacing your old grills with 442 ones? I believe the L or J bracket you're describing may be the wrong one. The one that holds the 442 grills are longer and has slotted channels for the 2 screws. You're supposed to use the 2 back ones to mount 442 grills. (ref 11-122 of the 72 Assembly Manual)

Does this look like the bracket you have? If it is that would explain why your grills won't go back far enough. You can solve this by adapting the bracket and drilling out the channels you need just past that round opening.

dc2x4drvr

My NOS '71 442 grilles don't have any screws, the brightwork is held on with bent over tabs.

Allan R

This is what we needed. The 71/72 grills use the same fastenings so here's what I need to know. (your pics are good references BTW, so I'm using one of them for my questions)

DSC01140-1-1.jpg

What is the depth of the plastic at '2'
At '1', How far from the stoneshield line up tab is the reveal plastic tab,
At '1' How far 'in' from the edge of the plastic is it?

I have a feeling that the repop grills have the bright reveal fastener too close to the line up tab, which is causing the majority of the problems. If that can be fixed by grinding it off and gluing the reveal down, I think the problem will be solved. Will wait for your answers to the measurements to see if it compares to the repops. Thx very much.