Things Learned (and Relearned!) During This Resto - Feel Free To Add Your Wisdom
March 20th, 2012, 03:45 PM
#1
Things Learned (and Relearned!) During This Resto - Feel Free To Add Your Wisdom
Building a 72 442 vert. Was originally just going to do it driver quality but one thing lead to another. I am getting close to beginning the reassembly phase thought I might share some of my experiences so far - hopefully others will add their "truisms & resto postulates" to this thread so, in no particular order:
1) There are no "good" used non A/C kick panels - buy the repros and move on
2) Doesnt matter what the price is - stay away from Brother's Automotive for your blood pressure's sake.
3) It is AGAIN confirmed anything to do with a resto will take 2 to 3 X more than estimated - both in time and treasure.
4) 40 year old convertibles from Wisconsin will have rust - and probably lots of it - you just didnt find it before you bought it.
4A) Proper rust repair will be your biggest single cost.
5) There are certain resto items unique to the different suppliers. Dont assume because Fusick doesnt have it that someone else wont.
6) Go ahead - change out those wiring harnesses, but sometimes you can find some excellent deals on good used OE items - just check for brittleness and clean all the contacts.
7) Whatever part you are looking for on ebay, search for it under every possible entry tag (i.e. 4 spd rear axle stiffeners - are they differential reinforcements, frame braces, differential braces, axle support, axle stiffener, etc...)
8) No matter how good the picture looks, expect to do some additional work to that used part you just bought.
9) Practice your metal polishing on scrap materials before hitting the real thing.
10) Dash board & wiring harness disassembly isnt as scary as it looks.
11) Have a good set of box end wrenches with the built in ratchet.
12) There's lots of fasteners/grommets that you can buy at your local hardware store that's going to be the exact same thing you're gonna pay through the nose for from the resto suppliers.
13) Rock Auto just might have that part - at half the price you'd pay anywhere else.
14) You dont save any time by not completely dissasembling the part you're working on (if you're wanting to do it right)
15) When you're ready to place an order for parts, wait another day - you'll think of something else you need and will save some money on freight.
16) The common spray paints today (Krylon, Rustoleum) seem to have been reformulated - they run easily and take forever to dry. Try the Eastwood's stuff - they seem to perform like the old Kryon products used to.
17) Brian Trick knows A LOT about differentials and manual transmissions.
18) Oldspackrat has been a wonderful used parts supplier.
19) Dont use anything but the green scotch brites on your fender wells.
20) Those repro tires are worth every penny when you mount them up on your freshly painted SS3's
1) There are no "good" used non A/C kick panels - buy the repros and move on
2) Doesnt matter what the price is - stay away from Brother's Automotive for your blood pressure's sake.
3) It is AGAIN confirmed anything to do with a resto will take 2 to 3 X more than estimated - both in time and treasure.
4) 40 year old convertibles from Wisconsin will have rust - and probably lots of it - you just didnt find it before you bought it.
4A) Proper rust repair will be your biggest single cost.
5) There are certain resto items unique to the different suppliers. Dont assume because Fusick doesnt have it that someone else wont.
6) Go ahead - change out those wiring harnesses, but sometimes you can find some excellent deals on good used OE items - just check for brittleness and clean all the contacts.
7) Whatever part you are looking for on ebay, search for it under every possible entry tag (i.e. 4 spd rear axle stiffeners - are they differential reinforcements, frame braces, differential braces, axle support, axle stiffener, etc...)
8) No matter how good the picture looks, expect to do some additional work to that used part you just bought.
9) Practice your metal polishing on scrap materials before hitting the real thing.
10) Dash board & wiring harness disassembly isnt as scary as it looks.
11) Have a good set of box end wrenches with the built in ratchet.
12) There's lots of fasteners/grommets that you can buy at your local hardware store that's going to be the exact same thing you're gonna pay through the nose for from the resto suppliers.
13) Rock Auto just might have that part - at half the price you'd pay anywhere else.
14) You dont save any time by not completely dissasembling the part you're working on (if you're wanting to do it right)
15) When you're ready to place an order for parts, wait another day - you'll think of something else you need and will save some money on freight.
16) The common spray paints today (Krylon, Rustoleum) seem to have been reformulated - they run easily and take forever to dry. Try the Eastwood's stuff - they seem to perform like the old Kryon products used to.
17) Brian Trick knows A LOT about differentials and manual transmissions.
18) Oldspackrat has been a wonderful used parts supplier.
19) Dont use anything but the green scotch brites on your fender wells.
20) Those repro tires are worth every penny when you mount them up on your freshly painted SS3's
March 20th, 2012, 04:00 PM
#3
Administrator
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Poteau, Ok
Posts: 40,551
Very good words of wisdom!!
I will add:
Car restoration is not for the weak of heart or bankbook! That $5000 purchased car project, will exceed $20,000+++ to restore.
If your wife/ or husband, does not like the car from the start, you will be miserable!
If your doing a parent/ child project and one party is not 100% dedicated, come up with a plan B and move on! Kids and/or parents seem to have different priorities sometimes!
Some cars are not meant to be restored! You can't save all of them.
I will add:
Car restoration is not for the weak of heart or bankbook! That $5000 purchased car project, will exceed $20,000+++ to restore.
If your wife/ or husband, does not like the car from the start, you will be miserable!
If your doing a parent/ child project and one party is not 100% dedicated, come up with a plan B and move on! Kids and/or parents seem to have different priorities sometimes!
Some cars are not meant to be restored! You can't save all of them.
March 20th, 2012, 05:08 PM
#5
Gary
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Houston,Tx
Posts: 1,202
1. Take plenty of pictures of anything thing you disassemble,will for sure help when you get ready to put everything back together.
2. Use zip lock bags to label where all nuts and bolt came from.
3. Expect to blow your budget.
4. Don't cut corners.
5. Seek advise or opinions from others.
6. Have quality tools and materials.
7. Build your car to what is going to make you happy.
8. Don't get in a hurry.
9. Also Brian Trick and Scott are 2 honest guys and neither try to rip you off.
10.Some of the local Auto Parts stores have many parts that can be used on your restoration,starters,batteries. alternators,fan belt etc will also save you on cost but will eliminate shipping cost.
2. Use zip lock bags to label where all nuts and bolt came from.
3. Expect to blow your budget.
4. Don't cut corners.
5. Seek advise or opinions from others.
6. Have quality tools and materials.
7. Build your car to what is going to make you happy.
8. Don't get in a hurry.
9. Also Brian Trick and Scott are 2 honest guys and neither try to rip you off.
10.Some of the local Auto Parts stores have many parts that can be used on your restoration,starters,batteries. alternators,fan belt etc will also save you on cost but will eliminate shipping cost.
Last edited by Gary's 2 442-S; March 20th, 2012 at 05:12 PM.
March 20th, 2012, 05:15 PM
#6
Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Rathdrum, Idano
Posts: 9,127
X3 on everything stated below. I would add
Break everything down to small projects you can complete. Do not try to do everything at once it can be overwhelming and can defeat your progress and can even make people give up on a project.
When you get upset or make a mistake take a break. Walk away for awhile and come back to the problem with a fresh view
Break everything down to small projects you can complete. Do not try to do everything at once it can be overwhelming and can defeat your progress and can even make people give up on a project.
When you get upset or make a mistake take a break. Walk away for awhile and come back to the problem with a fresh view
March 21st, 2012, 12:52 PM
#10
Thought of a few more
21) It's the little pieces (bushings, trunnions, rods, boots, etc) that add up to big money on a 4 speed changeover.
22) Before automatically sanding & refinishing every piece you touch, try cleaning it - gently - first. You'd be surprised sometimes how good it will look after a scrubbing with Simple Green and a toothbrush.
23) Clean and service your window regulators, guides, rollers and stops - they will need it and you'll be amazed how much easier your windows roll up and down.
24) Not all repro parts are garbage - they range in quality from crappy (front fender peak moldings) to excellent (70-72 convertible pinchweld moldings)
25) The most overpriced products so far (considering what they are): 3 way tie between ILT's firewall stamps (26.00 each), MT valve cover to battery cable plastic straps (16.00 each) and Fusick's door pull escutcheons (16.00 each)
21) It's the little pieces (bushings, trunnions, rods, boots, etc) that add up to big money on a 4 speed changeover.
22) Before automatically sanding & refinishing every piece you touch, try cleaning it - gently - first. You'd be surprised sometimes how good it will look after a scrubbing with Simple Green and a toothbrush.
23) Clean and service your window regulators, guides, rollers and stops - they will need it and you'll be amazed how much easier your windows roll up and down.
24) Not all repro parts are garbage - they range in quality from crappy (front fender peak moldings) to excellent (70-72 convertible pinchweld moldings)
25) The most overpriced products so far (considering what they are): 3 way tie between ILT's firewall stamps (26.00 each), MT valve cover to battery cable plastic straps (16.00 each) and Fusick's door pull escutcheons (16.00 each)
March 22nd, 2012, 08:37 PM
#13
It really helps me every few weeks to clean up and organize the work area, and go through my inventory of parts. Sometimes, I stumble upon something that I forgot I had a spare of which saves me ordering another one.
March 23rd, 2012, 02:55 AM
#14
1968 442 vert resto-mod
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Toronto,Ontario,Canada.
Posts: 51
I'm in the process of doing a frame off, 68 442 convert. My car is a Canadian car, the winter road salt really loved it. Lucky I had it media blasted cause if it was acid dipped it would have been returned in an envelope.
March 24th, 2012, 04:30 PM
#17
Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 243
I'll add to the great comments about Brian Trick.
In addition to using zip lock bags and marking the parts in them. Also try to box everything in labeled boxes as you go along by section - Interior, Engine Compartment, Engine Assembly, etc. While you are waiting for the car to come back from the paint shop.
Some of the newer detail items out are helpful in restorations. Mother's makes Back to Black which does a fantastic job on the inner wheel wells and A/C box. Aluminum wheel polish works to clean up the A/C lines
First I have heard anything about Brothers
In addition to using zip lock bags and marking the parts in them. Also try to box everything in labeled boxes as you go along by section - Interior, Engine Compartment, Engine Assembly, etc. While you are waiting for the car to come back from the paint shop.
Some of the newer detail items out are helpful in restorations. Mother's makes Back to Black which does a fantastic job on the inner wheel wells and A/C box. Aluminum wheel polish works to clean up the A/C lines
First I have heard anything about Brothers
March 25th, 2012, 09:39 AM
#19
Formerly "Shimmer"
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 510
AL
March 25th, 2012, 09:41 AM
#20
Formerly "Shimmer"
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 510
1. Take plenty of pictures of anything thing you disassemble,will for sure help when you get ready to put everything back together.
2. Use zip lock bags to label where all nuts and bolt came from.
3. Expect to blow your budget.
4. Don't cut corners.
5. Seek advise or opinions from others.
6. Have quality tools and materials.
7. Build your car to what is going to make you happy.
8. Don't get in a hurry.
9. Also Brian Trick and Scott are 2 honest guys and neither try to rip you off.
10.Some of the local Auto Parts stores have many parts that can be used on your restoration,starters,batteries. alternators,fan belt etc will also save you on cost but will eliminate shipping cost.
2. Use zip lock bags to label where all nuts and bolt came from.
3. Expect to blow your budget.
4. Don't cut corners.
5. Seek advise or opinions from others.
6. Have quality tools and materials.
7. Build your car to what is going to make you happy.
8. Don't get in a hurry.
9. Also Brian Trick and Scott are 2 honest guys and neither try to rip you off.
10.Some of the local Auto Parts stores have many parts that can be used on your restoration,starters,batteries. alternators,fan belt etc will also save you on cost but will eliminate shipping cost.
AL
March 25th, 2012, 09:56 AM
#21
Randy C.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Albany, OR
Posts: 3,245
One more thought about convertible tops, especially if you plan on having an upholsterer install it:
Talk with the upholsterer first before you buy a top kit. There are some top kits that upholsterers simply will not work with and you don't want to spend money on something that will end up staying in a box in your shop forever. The upholsterer will also offer advice/recommendations on convertible top cables (most want new ones) and reconditioning your top bows before the new top goes on.
Randy C.
Talk with the upholsterer first before you buy a top kit. There are some top kits that upholsterers simply will not work with and you don't want to spend money on something that will end up staying in a box in your shop forever. The upholsterer will also offer advice/recommendations on convertible top cables (most want new ones) and reconditioning your top bows before the new top goes on.
Randy C.
March 25th, 2012, 10:08 AM
#22
Formerly "Shimmer"
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 510
One more thought about convertible tops, especially if you plan on having an upholsterer install it:
Talk with the upholsterer first before you buy a top kit. There are some top kits that upholsterers simply will not work with and you don't want to spend money on something that will end up staying in a box in your shop forever. The upholsterer will also offer advice/recommendations on convertible top cables (most want new ones) and reconditioning your top bows before the new top goes on.
Randy C.
Talk with the upholsterer first before you buy a top kit. There are some top kits that upholsterers simply will not work with and you don't want to spend money on something that will end up staying in a box in your shop forever. The upholsterer will also offer advice/recommendations on convertible top cables (most want new ones) and reconditioning your top bows before the new top goes on.
Randy C.
AL
March 25th, 2012, 02:33 PM
#23
On the other hand, it really has allowed me the time to go through every stinking part and have it ready for reassembly when I get the car back - it's just the frame and shell up there at his place.
Which leads me to one more truisim:
26) Fasteners will be at least 30% of your time - cleaning/repairing/chasing down the right ones
March 25th, 2012, 03:30 PM
#24
Formerly "Shimmer"
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 510
Amen X10 - my painter guy has had the car eight months. I've paid as requested (12K to date) and am still waiting.
On the other hand, it really has allowed me the time to go through every stinking part and have it ready for reassembly when I get the car back - it's just the frame and shell up there at his place.
Which leads me to one more truisim:
26) Fasteners will be at least 30% of your time - cleaning/repairing/chasing down the right ones
On the other hand, it really has allowed me the time to go through every stinking part and have it ready for reassembly when I get the car back - it's just the frame and shell up there at his place.
Which leads me to one more truisim:
26) Fasteners will be at least 30% of your time - cleaning/repairing/chasing down the right ones
You've already got all this money paid, and as agreed, but still when you walk in his shop there they are working on someone else's car and bitching that the owner owes him money on the project. So you stand there in astonishment thinking I'm here (with check book) and your working on someone's car whom you have to bitch to get your money? They just amaze me! Maybe your not going through this but I am and have, Good grief! If it wasn't for these %$%$%we'd have our cars completed 6 months earlier. Got to be a better way. Take it to a collision shop
AL
March 25th, 2012, 04:11 PM
#25
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Seneca Falls, NY
Posts: 5,258
Always sign a contract for bodywork and paint. Specify length of time for completion and a payment schedule. Never give more than the cost of materials up front.
If you're going to have a shop do your motor then do your homework. Make sure they have experience with Olds engines.
If you have a 40 year old car from the northeast it WILL require a frame-off restoration.
If you're going to have a shop do your motor then do your homework. Make sure they have experience with Olds engines.
If you have a 40 year old car from the northeast it WILL require a frame-off restoration.
March 25th, 2012, 04:57 PM
#26
Formerly "Shimmer"
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 510
Amen X10 - my painter guy has had the car eight months. I've paid as requested (12K to date) and am still waiting.
On the other hand, it really has allowed me the time to go through every stinking part and have it ready for reassembly when I get the car back - it's just the frame and shell up there at his place.
Which leads me to one more truisim:
26) Fasteners will be at least 30% of your time - cleaning/repairing/chasing down the right ones
On the other hand, it really has allowed me the time to go through every stinking part and have it ready for reassembly when I get the car back - it's just the frame and shell up there at his place.
Which leads me to one more truisim:
26) Fasteners will be at least 30% of your time - cleaning/repairing/chasing down the right ones
AL
March 25th, 2012, 08:43 PM
#27
Randy C.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Albany, OR
Posts: 3,245
Randy C.
March 25th, 2012, 08:51 PM
#28
One more thought about convertible tops, especially if you plan on having an upholsterer install it:
Talk with the upholsterer first before you buy a top kit. There are some top kits that upholsterers simply will not work with and you don't want to spend money on something that will end up staying in a box in your shop forever. The upholsterer will also offer advice/recommendations on convertible top cables (most want new ones) and reconditioning your top bows before the new top goes on.
Randy C.
Talk with the upholsterer first before you buy a top kit. There are some top kits that upholsterers simply will not work with and you don't want to spend money on something that will end up staying in a box in your shop forever. The upholsterer will also offer advice/recommendations on convertible top cables (most want new ones) and reconditioning your top bows before the new top goes on.
Randy C.
March 26th, 2012, 12:15 PM
#29
Randy C.
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Albany, OR
Posts: 3,245
I would first talk with the person that is going to install your top. That person has preferences and dislikes. I got my top kit from Year One - they sold a brand at the time that my upholsterer liked really well. But what my uphosterer likes might be what another uphosterer despises!
I don't recall the brand name but it was a short name - 4-5 letters and that's it.
If you are doing it yourself, I would talk with others that have done it and gather their opinions before making the purchase.
Randy C.
I don't recall the brand name but it was a short name - 4-5 letters and that's it.
If you are doing it yourself, I would talk with others that have done it and gather their opinions before making the purchase.
Randy C.
.
November 19th, 2012, 08:05 PM
#34
Phantom Phixer
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Apopka, FL
Posts: 4,668
Then I'm sure you are experiencing this:
You've already got all this money paid, and as agreed, but still when you walk in his shop there they are working on someone else's car and bitching that the owner owes him money on the project. So you stand there in astonishment thinking I'm here (with check book) and your working on someone's car whom you have to bitch to get your money? They just amaze me! Maybe your not going through this but I am and have, Good grief! If it wasn't for these %$%$%we'd have our cars completed 6 months earlier. Got to be a better way. Take it to a collision shop
AL
You've already got all this money paid, and as agreed, but still when you walk in his shop there they are working on someone else's car and bitching that the owner owes him money on the project. So you stand there in astonishment thinking I'm here (with check book) and your working on someone's car whom you have to bitch to get your money? They just amaze me! Maybe your not going through this but I am and have, Good grief! If it wasn't for these %$%$%we'd have our cars completed 6 months earlier. Got to be a better way. Take it to a collision shop
AL
This is exactly what I plan to do.
November 19th, 2012, 09:16 PM
#35
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Chi-town
Posts: 4,511
November 20th, 2012, 03:58 AM
#36
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 666
Always sign a contract for bodywork and paint. Specify length of time for completion and a payment schedule. Never give more than the cost of materials up front.
If you're going to have a shop do your motor then do your homework. Make sure they have experience with Olds engines.
If you have a 40 year old car from the northeast it WILL require a frame-off restoration.
If you're going to have a shop do your motor then do your homework. Make sure they have experience with Olds engines.
If you have a 40 year old car from the northeast it WILL require a frame-off restoration.
November 25th, 2012, 09:07 PM
#37
Let me repeat - before buying any part, make sure you have exhausted any possibility of refurbing the OE one you have. The amount of jacking you have to do to make anything fit worth a damn is considerable and you risk ruining it in the process.
November 26th, 2012, 07:24 AM
#38
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,842
Here are a few more thoughts:
1. start with a desert southwest car and avoid the rust repairs, and broken bolts that were rusted into place.
2. Steele Rubber has a wide assortment of grommets and plugs, etc.
3. Amazon has some parts even cheaper than Rock.
4. get a dozen Harbor Freight magnetic stainless steel trays when they are on sale.
5. Grease the threads of every bolt (unless Loctiting it).
1. start with a desert southwest car and avoid the rust repairs, and broken bolts that were rusted into place.
2. Steele Rubber has a wide assortment of grommets and plugs, etc.
3. Amazon has some parts even cheaper than Rock.
4. get a dozen Harbor Freight magnetic stainless steel trays when they are on sale.
5. Grease the threads of every bolt (unless Loctiting it).
November 26th, 2012, 08:35 AM
#39
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 904
How about a item or two about safety equipment??? I have been working with my grandson for over a year now and we wear safety goggles when grinding or sanding as well as a dust mask ( which my grandpa invented for 3M years ago!). Goggles come in very handy when under the car and the rust etc was falling.......
