Rebuild on Stock 350 motor finally started

Old March 11th, 2015, 04:10 PM
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Rebuild on Stock 350 motor finally started

current details on the car:
#match 350 Olds block - 53k orig miles - Stock/original bottom end
2004R Trans Extreme Automatics Stage#1 - Edge 9.5” 2600-2800 non-lockup converter - shifts at 5000 RPM at WOT
Brian Trick 3.90 posi rear, Jegster adj upper & lower control arms, Hotchkis trailing arm braces, Hotchkis 1” rear sway bar, W-27 cover
#6 heads untouched
Ebrock Perfomer intake (3711)
Edelbrock 1411 750 cfm 4-Barrel carb with electric choke, 2” spacer, and bowtie’s adj TV cable for the 2004R
Summit 380457 3 core alum radiator with trans cooler – stock fan & shroud
180* thermostat – Mr Gasket #4364
#8529 MSD Pro Billet Dist w/Vacuum Adv
#8207 MSD Blaster SS coil
MSD 6AL box w/5300 plug
MSD #31363 8.5 mm spark plug wires
Drive shaft loop
Stock rubber 350 motor mounts with tie down rod to frame (via alternator bracket) on drivers side
3712 performer cam: 280/290, 204/214, 448/472 114/106
American Racing 1 3/4" headers, 2.5" exhaust (Xpipe, mufflers, tailpipes, & Olds trumpets)
8.7:1 CR
15x7 front/15x8 rear all chrome SSIs
245/60/15 front - 275/60/15 BFG RWL tires
About 3900 lbs with driver


New 374ci Olds Build plan:
Bore 4.125 SRP pistons (.068 over) 21 cc dish
Stroke 3.5 (330 steel w/2” journals)
Rods 6.125 Dyers H-Beam
Holly Street Dominator
Edelbrock 1407 750 carb
UD 292/300, 235/244, 522/536 (1.60 HS rockers), 112
Rhoads lifters
9.57:1 measured CR {zero deck .041 gasket, 1.425 comp ht, 9.3 deck ht}
#6 heads – 59.5 ccs, 2.07/1.68 valves, crossovers filled, fully ported
7 QT Oil pan
1 headers
2.5 exhaust w/X -pipe


As of today the block is being worked on, heads are done, already have most of the other parts. Hoping to have the motor done and in the car with the paint and body done by late spring/early summer. We'll see how that goes.

-Joe

Pic of the car:
passengersideCutlass_zpsa063275e.jpg

Last edited by 71 OLDS; March 19th, 2016 at 11:29 AM.
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Old March 11th, 2015, 05:03 PM
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Hey Joe,


I'm guessing you're looking for feedback so here's mine;

Ditch the Holley SD, use an RPM instead, cut the center divider. Get rid of the Edelbrock carb as well.
Why Dyers H beams? A bit of overkill don't you think?
I'd raise the static compression to 10.0:1 with that cam and ditch the Rhoads lifters
Is the cam ground on a 112 or is that the recommended installed ICL?

Jmo, thanks and best of luck.

Last edited by cutlassefi; March 11th, 2015 at 05:06 PM.
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Old March 11th, 2015, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cutlassefi View Post
Hey Joe,


I'm guessing you're looking for feedback so here's mine;

Ditch the Holley SD, use an RPM instead, cut the center divider. Get rid of the Edelbrock carb as well.
Why Dyers H beams? A bit of overkill don't you think?
I'd raise the static compression to 10.0:1 with that cam and ditch the Rhoads lifters
Is the cam ground on a 112 or is that the recommended installed ICL?

Jmo, thanks and best of luck.
Hi Mark,

Long time no talk. Hope you are doing well. Not so much looking for feedback just providing an update since I've posted other plans before and have been off the "grid" for a while. Plus I am looking forward to having the car back on the road soon. I'm keeping the SD only because Frank had it and it helped with the "savings" part of the build. I know you hate the Ebrock carb (we've discussed before) but the TV cable's out there to soften the shifts on my 2004R are very limited and the kit that goes with that carb works great. I don't want to mess with trying to custom build one for a different carb. I think the crank and rods are both overkill for this build but I think they will be great for the future upgrade. I'm going with the Rhodes lifters even though EVERYONE hates them I really want to see how the car performs and runs with them. I'd rather play it safe and go with a 9.5 and see where the cranking compression ends up. There may be times where only 92 octane is available and 10:1 scares me unless I had aluminum heads. I get what you're saying though with the big duration (and no Rhodes lifters) it would probably still be OK at 9.75 or even 10. The cam is ground at 112.

I'll let you know how it ends up (good or bad) and may post a video or something. The paint and body work ended up costing much more than I thought. Had to have LOTS of metal welded in on the fenders and quarters. The car was filled with bondo and as pretty as it looks in the pics it was all coming through. Plus there were massive holes under the vinyl top and issues with the rear windshield. Hoping paint and body will be good for another decade when it's done but all that body work is not cheap.

-Joe
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Old December 10th, 2015, 02:50 PM
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20151205_175741_zpsfv5au9xg.jpg

This motor is finally coming together. One small change in the plan. I'm going to have the 2004R upgraded to a "stage 2" build by Extreme Automatics so I don't have to worry about trashing the current "stage 1" build trans that's in the car now. So because of this the #6 heads will now be fully ported. So the new build will be:

374ci
Bore 4.125 SRP pistons (.068 over) 21 cc dish
Stroke 3.5 (330 steel w/2” journals)
Rods 6.125 Dyers H-Beam
Holly Street Dominator
Edelbrock 1407 750 carb
UD 292/300, 235/244, 522/536 (1.60 HS rockers), 112 LSA
Rhoads lifters
9.57:1 measured CR {zero deck .041 gasket, 1.425 comp ht, 9.3 deck ht}
#6 heads – 59.5 ccs, 2.07/1.68 valves, crossovers filled, fully ported
7 QT Oil pan
1 headers
2.5 exhaust w/X -pipe

Down the road (years from now) the motor can be updated for more power by adding some Ebrock heads and a hyd roller cam. I have 2 cars going at once right now (my 71 442 and this 70 Cutlass) so keeping costs down few thousand dollars by going with the cam and lifters I had and the #6s.

I didn't do this on purpose but actually I think this build is at least close to the Edelbrock build from years ago (397 hp/400 tq). It had an RPM intake and a cam about 10 less on the duration than mine (but the Rhodes lifters will make my cam "act like" 10 less at the lower RPMs anyway). It has 9.7 CR but the Rhodes lifter increase cranking compression so I'm staying at 9.5 for pump gas. Plus mine is a stroker at 374 ci. Anyway here's the stats on that build for anyone who cares:

Edelbrock 397hp @ 6000/400 tq @4500 355 Olds Build:
Bore 4.087 (.030 over)
Stroke 3.385 (stock)
Edelbrock RPM Intake
Edelbrock 1407 750 carb
.030 flat top pistons – TRW L2320
Stock rods w/ARP bolts – polished & shot peened
Edelbrock 7112 cam – 290/300, 224/234 @ .050, .496/.520 lift (1.6), 112 LSA (107 centerline)
9.70:1 measure CR
#5 heads – 2.07/1.68 valves, center dividers welded, crossovers filled, 5 angle valve job, ported by Mondello
Mondello Roller tip Rockers (SAR 460)
7 QT Oil pan
1 headers

Last edited by 71 OLDS; May 21st, 2019 at 02:43 PM.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 03:56 PM
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I am running 9.5 to 1 compression with an aggressive timing curve and the tiny 204/214 cam. I backed off the vacuum advance and used very cold NGK 5670-8 spark plugs to eliminate pinging. If I can run this tiny cam on 91, you should boost the compression at least another 1/4 point, that cam is huge! I am stepping up to custom cam from Mark this year, want good manners AND better 1/8 mile times.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by olds 307 and 403 View Post
I am running 9.5 to 1 compression with an aggressive timing curve and the tiny 204/214 cam. I backed off the vacuum advance and used very cold NGK 5670-8 spark plugs to eliminate pinging. If I can run this tiny cam on 91, you should boost the compression at least another 1/4 point, that cam is huge! I am stepping up to custom cam from Mark this year, want good manners AND better 1/8 mile times.
If I was NOT going with Rhodes Lifter I agree - Static CR could be around 9.75 or even 10. But Rhodes lifters increase the cranking compression so I have to adjust accordingly at least a quarter point.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 05:42 PM
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Just a nice stock rebuild huh? ;-) That thing will be a beast. I'm thinking of doing be for the Rallye and sticking original engine under workbench.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Magna86 View Post
Just a nice stock rebuild huh? ;-) That thing will be a beast. I'm thinking of doing be for the Rallye and sticking original engine under workbench.
Haha - yeah a little more than a stock rebuild. Should be a fun car. This one is for my son who graduates as a 2nd Lt. in the Army from Virginia Military Institute in May. Since he may get stationed at different places for a while the car will stay safely with my Dad in Annandale, VA (just outside of DC) in his garage. My Dad will drive it and "take care of it" probably for a few years until my son has a place of his own with a garage to keep the car. My Dad has had about 15 Oldsmobiles over the years so he will make sure the car is good to go.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 01:35 PM
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I have question for the op. Why post here in a stock forum and not in the racing forum where a high performance engine should be?

Last edited by wr1970; January 5th, 2016 at 02:20 PM.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by wr1970 View Post
I have question for the op. Why post here in a stock forum and not is the racing forum where a high performance engine should be?
It's under Engine/Small block

That's what it is. No mention of "stock" in either of those headings.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wr1970 View Post
I have question for the op. Why post here in a stock forum and not is the racing forum where a high performance engine should be?
Besides, I would consider this a really nice, hot street build, not a racing build. And it sounds like the intended usage is street, not racing.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 04:00 PM
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Sounds like a fun build. Did you have the rotating assembly ballanced? Are you planning to port the heads yourself? If so you may want to take a look at the "Home Porting Techniques" thread. There's a ton of good info there if you can sift through the BS - https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...echniques.html

For what you are trying to achieve, a nice bowl blend and quality valve job should get you there. Please post up flow numbers, if you have the heads flowed.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wr1970 View Post
I have question for the op. Why post here in a stock forum and not is the racing forum where a high performance engine should be?

This is NOT a "stock" forum and he never mentioned racing. Stop pushing your personal agenda.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by captjim View Post
This is NOT a "stock" forum and he never mentioned racing. Stop pushing your personal agenda.
Your arrogance is great not my agenda. The op build is way above a stock build just saying! You on the other hand start up with me at every chance. Frankly i consider this a personal attack from you Captjim. I was just asking a question in this open forum.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 06:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 67 Cutlass Freak View Post
Sounds like a fun build. Did you have the rotating assembly ballanced? Are you planning to port the heads yourself? If so you may want to take a look at the "Home Porting Techniques" thread. There's a ton of good info there if you can sift through the BS - https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...echniques.html

For what you are trying to achieve, a nice bowl blend and quality valve job should get you there. Please post up flow numbers, if you have the heads flowed.
The motor is all being professionally done by Frank Trimble at his shop in MD -Everything was balanced and the #6 heads were ported w/all the standard upgrades but will not be flowed.
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Old December 13th, 2015, 06:46 PM
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Frank has a great reputation in the Olds community. Sounds like you're in good hands. Keep us posted on how things progress. By the way, we need photos or it didn't happen. LOL
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Old December 14th, 2015, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 67 Cutlass Freak View Post
Frank has a great reputation in the Olds community. Sounds like you're in good hands. Keep us posted on how things progress. By the way, we need photos or it didn't happen. LOL
Frank and his brother have been great to work with! They are working on both my cars right now. (71 442 conv & 70 Cutlass Supreme). Here are a few more pics of the Cutlass work. The Cutlass has been in paint and body jail for the last 6 months while Frank and his brother worked on the motor and other projects.

some paint and body pics:
20151009_225121%204_zpsv1qybjh5.jpg
2938-MMS-1444551152422-attachment1-7163_zpsyfoxdgpl.jpg
wet sanding:
20151125_153344_zpse9z0qnfs.jpg

motor coming out:
20150905_185447_resized_zpsqlzb2v2a.jpg
20150905_195041_resized_zpssb9ukgil.jpg

Here's the link to the build on my 71 442 also on this site: https://classicoldsmobile.com/forums...back-home.html

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Old December 14th, 2015, 03:57 PM
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Frank's handywork on my #6's - almost done:

20151214_155436_zpsl8jq7vfi.jpg

20151214_155351_zpsmg05wzvj.jpg
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Old December 14th, 2015, 04:03 PM
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Looking good.
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Old January 4th, 2016, 08:55 PM
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latest motor pic. Almost done:

VZM%20IMG_20160103_112659_zps0oafeql8.jpg
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Old January 5th, 2016, 10:25 AM
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What's the name of Frank's shop?

.
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Old January 5th, 2016, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
What's the name of Frank's shop?

.
Frank and his brother rent out a place in Beltsville where they do all their work. They only do work for friends and family so not a 100% legit business right now. Not sure if they have any plans to change that in the future. They both still work their day jobs and do this on the side. I think there is a name on the front but I believe it was the name the previous people that worked there had. When I send parts to him I just send to Frank Trimble and put the address.
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Old January 5th, 2016, 11:06 AM
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Any idea which machine shop they use? Burtonsville maybe?

.
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Old January 5th, 2016, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by HWYSTR455 View Post
Any idea which machine shop they use? Burtonsville maybe?

.
Not sure but I can find out. Frank always refers to it as "the machine shop" but never said a name. Will let you know.
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Old January 5th, 2016, 02:06 PM
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Correction - Frank and his brother are officially open for business to everyone. Here are his details:
Frank Trimble
6776 Mid Cities Avenue
Beltsville, MD 20705
Phone # 301 437 - 2243

Feel free to call him to inquire about his services questions about machine shop etc.

-Joe
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Old February 9th, 2016, 04:03 PM
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cam is broken in and build is coming together. Sorry no video

20160208_174751_zpslcuq3a5v.jpg
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Old February 12th, 2016, 05:46 PM
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Paint is finally done and cured. Rear glass and new vinyl top are the last 2 items:

2016021295193038_zpsnlxmbrw0.jpg

after the top is done the car goes back to Frank to have the motor installed. Will also be rebuilding the entire front end - converting to tubular upper and lower control arms, hotchkis hallow front sway bar, hotchkis spings front & rear, QA1 adjustable shocks , AGR quick ratio steering box, manual disk brakes front (stock drums rear), and moving the battery to the trunk. 2004R will be sent back to Lonnie at Extreme automatics to be upgraded from a stage 1 to stage 2. Hoping to have the car all done by late spring - we'll see

Last edited by 71 OLDS; February 12th, 2016 at 05:50 PM.
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Old February 12th, 2016, 06:05 PM
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That's a nice transformation to an already awesome car. It looked great in your first post. I can wait to see the finished product.
Very nice car, I would be proud to own it. Especially totally rebuild.
I hope to hear you get to enjoy it by late spring.
Keep the pics coming I for 1 like to see pics, looks awesome .

Eric
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Old February 12th, 2016, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 76olds View Post
That's a nice transformation to an already awesome car. It looked great in your first post. I can wait to see the finished product.
Very nice car, I would be proud to own it. Especially totally rebuild.
I hope to hear you get to enjoy it by late spring.
Keep the pics coming I for 1 like to see pics, looks awesome .

Eric
Thanks Eric. Really happy it's all coming together. It's a gift for my son who graduates from VMI (Virginia Military Institute) in May as a 2nd Lt in the Army. Thankfully we are ahead of schedule a little. Also even though the paint looked good in the first pic sadly the car was full of bondo. It all started to come through after about a year so all new metal was welded into the quarters and fenders both inner and outer and the trunk and rear window and area behind the rear window were all rusted out and the car was leaking really badly. Also the ram air hood was added after the fact and the Azure blue on the hood did NOT match the rest of the car. All of this has been fixed now. Hoping the paint and body is good for another 5 to 10 years.

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Old February 12th, 2016, 11:51 PM
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I love the colour. Nice detail to give block that same colour too.
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Old February 13th, 2016, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Inline View Post
I love the colour. Nice detail to give block that same colour too.
Thanks. Actually that's just primer on the motor that happens to look light blue in that pic but it's actually white. The motor will be the stock SB Olds gold when it's done. This was the "before" pic.

motorfrontview_zps2cldhdxj.jpg

It will look almost exactly the same when it's done but will be a completely different build, with lots of new pieces (front end, brakes etc)
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Old February 16th, 2016, 05:21 PM
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Old February 16th, 2016, 05:28 PM
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Very nice.
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Old February 16th, 2016, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 71 OLDS View Post
Thanks Eric. Really happy it's all coming together. It's a gift for my son who graduates from VMI (Virginia Military Institute) in May as a 2nd Lt in the Army. Thankfully we are ahead of schedule a little. Also even though the paint looked good in the first pic sadly the car was full of bondo. It all started to come through after about a year so all new metal was welded into the quarters and fenders both inner and outer and the trunk and rear window and area behind the rear window were all rusted out and the car was leaking really badly. Also the ram air hood was added after the fact and the Azure blue on the hood did NOT match the rest of the car. All of this has been fixed now. Hoping the paint and body is good for another 5 to 10 years.
That is a nice gift from Father to Son, I'm sure your son will appreciate the car for many years to come. Looking forward to more pics leading up to the big day.
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Old February 16th, 2016, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 76olds View Post
That is a nice gift from Father to Son, I'm sure your son will appreciate the car for many years to come. Looking forward to more pics leading up to the big day.
X2 - its an awesome gift. Congrats to him on his future graduation also.
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Old February 16th, 2016, 09:40 PM
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Thanks guys! I appreciate all the kind words! Some great things to look forward to this spring and summer!

-Joe
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Old February 17th, 2016, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by 71 OLDS View Post
Thanks Eric. Really happy it's all coming together. It's a gift for my son who graduates from VMI (Virginia Military Institute) in May as a 2nd Lt in the Army. Thankfully we are ahead of schedule a little. Also even though the paint looked good in the first pic sadly the car was full of bondo. It all started to come through after about a year so all new metal was welded into the quarters and fenders both inner and outer and the trunk and rear window and area behind the rear window were all rusted out and the car was leaking really badly. Also the ram air hood was added after the fact and the Azure blue on the hood did NOT match the rest of the car. All of this has been fixed now. Hoping the paint and body is good for another 5 to 10 years.
That's awesome. Congrats to your son! What a great project for the two of you!

It's going to be beautiful when it's done. (I wish i got a car when I graduated college, hahaha)
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Old February 17th, 2016, 07:37 PM
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That's awesome. Congrats to your son! What a great project for the two of you!

It's going to be beautiful when it's done. (I wish i got a car when I graduated college, hahaha)
Thanks!

-Joe
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Old February 24th, 2016, 09:08 AM
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Old February 24th, 2016, 10:09 AM
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Very nice!
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