Well, I went ahead and shuffled things in the garage around enough to where now I think I'm ready to just go ahead and start yanking the engine. I need to try to find a place for my mower, as I believe the hood will need to go to the shed, but beyond that..I'll just start at the top and work my way down. The goal is to have the engine out by the end of the year, where it'll be sent off to finally be opened back up and hopefully able to be corrected. While its out, I'm going to try to get the inner fender pulled out from when the balljoint failed, as I believe it's up against the blower motor. Additionally, I want to get some detail work done that was neglected when the engine was out the first time. May end up just replacing the Evap box as it's pretty ugly, and get a new shroud as there's a hole in my current one and then just doing a bit more organizing of the wiring along the DS fender and the firewall.

In all honestly, if those things can get accomplished while the engine is out, then once it's back in all I'll have left is to address a couple things here and there (vent window regulator, all glass, DS seat cover, PS seat-spring protruding, taillight plug) and it's about as done as it's gonna get.

 

I cannot count the number of times I have thought this.

 

I mean, I'm in the same boat but my goodness it sounds good to be hopeful. Haha

 

Got so far as to get the hood off last weekend, but this weekend it's supposed to at least be above freezing (and I have some time, I think) so I'm hoping to make some headway in getting things stripped off and unbolted. Depending on how ugly cold it is in the morning, I may go ahead and start pulling accessories off while the dog is outside. Dang husky in him makes him want to stay in there, but once the part-lab catches up to the cold..hes done. Ha!

 

I haven't been keeping up with your issues. What finally happened that made you decide to pull the engine back out and what are you doing? Not a full rebuild I hope?

 

It was determined based on compression test numbers that simply, something isn't right. So, it's coming out and being sent off to be figured out and corrected.

I got a good bit done last night, so if I can get some help I may be able to have it out this weekend. We'll see..

 

Well..its out. Gotta get things picked up and start working on getting the extra crap off the engine and ready to be shipped out.

Evidently, the frame pads for the engine mounts were a little wallered out..that may explain the excessive amount of shaking the drivetrain did.

 

Another weekend, another progress post..



Gonna have the guy who loads the trucks give it a once-over either Monday or Tuesday, with the goal of shipping out Wednesday. I wasn't too confident in the pack job, but Pops seems to think it'll withstand the shipping.

 

So it's on its way back to the guy who first rebuilt it ...?

 

No, I wouldn't trust that guy to rebuild a weed eater.

I'm sending it down to @cutlassefi. I'm not thrilled about having another engine bill, but I'm confident that he's going to not only find the issue, but correct it and I'll finally have an engine that'll run like its supposed to. I've bothered him enough with it over the years, whether it be asking the same question multiple times, or what have you..it's time to just not only admit I'm over my head, but get it done by someone who knows what they're doing.

I'm looking forward to the updates on it once it gets down there and he's able to start the process, but in the meantime I'm going to just keep myself busy cleaning/detailing out the engine bay. I've got a new (to me) EVAP box coming, so I'm going to replace the guts in it, paint it, and then pull my old one out to swap them. I've got a few more things on the list for engine bay stuff anyway (plus guitars that need work) so hopefully I'll be able to knock all that out and be ready for when the engine is ready to be reinstalled.

 

Good choice for a builder. I'm sure you're on the right track. Best of luck, and keep us apprised!

 

Good choice on Cutlassefi. I should have got Mark to do a stroker 350 and shipped it up here, wouldn't have cost me anymore then where I am at with my sort of performance 350. You are in good hands. Hindsight is always 20/20.

 

For the season finale of 2024...



We're all collectively anxious to see what the preliminary runs will show. Both overall health, and what direction to go in order to correct the issues.

 

Preliminary test results show a few points of concerns. Oil pressure is an unexpected issue, but it also is missing above 4400 RPM, and is overall just down on HP & TQ compared to where it should be.

A couple more tests will be run for further troubleshooting, but beyond that I think the only thing keeping me sane about it is the fact that it's in good hands now.

 

I'm sure Mark can make significant improvement on those numbers. Best of luck.

 

What were the original HP expectations?

 

When I first got it back, I'd expected at least factory numbers and had hoped for a bit more. Not even hitting factory numbers though was a surprise.

I have no doubt that it can achieve that, and then some once it's finished, however my main focus is to have a healthy engine that'll run like it's supposed to for another 50 years..lol

 

Got a bit of an update today. Mark threw on an HEI as well as the Jet QJet. The miss has disappeared and he found about 30hp. The Jet QJet also has some issues (too rich & leaks upon shutdown) but through all of that it's better than it was the other day.

The issues still remain though of oil pressure, low vacuum & cyl 6 & 8 being lower than the others.

The next step will be opening it up, so we'll see what that brings but it's nice to get continuous updates as things progress.

 

Well, Mark called with a bit of an update. It's always a tone-setter when the words "never seen this before" are said...

I'm probably forgetting some things, but upon opening it up he found quite a bit of issues. One of the rod caps had weld stacked on it, assumingly during the balance procedure. Additionally, there were a multitude of hardware concerns. As he put it, it was as if the assembly shop just went to the hardware store and got some of the bolts. The pistons all showed signs of detonation, as did some of the bearings. He said he went to pull #4 out and the bearing just dropped out, which is a sign that it wasn't balanced. I had concerns regarding how bad it would shake, but at the time had no reason to think it could be a balance problem. This also could have a good portion as to why the oil pressure was so low..if I understood correctly. Additionally, he said it did show signs on one of the cam lobes that it wasn't going to be around much longer.








Next week the block goes in. Keeping it short, to clean up and make sure everything is square and true to give a solid foundation. He said he already has a cam chosen; a tad bigger than what I had, but is still shooting for 10 to 1 or 10.25 to 1 compression..something that was supposed to have been obtained during the first attempt at building. He said he's shooting for 375/450, which is plenty for what I'm using the car for. If I wanted something with more power than that, I wouldn't have picked up a numbers matching car to begin with.

Hindsight being what is is obviously, this is what I would've done from the start-just shipped it out and have a true Olds specialist build it/save it. Now that its' starting to get warmer, I'm not only getting excited to get out and get working on the Olds again, but hearing both progress, and updates of validation that it wasn't right are sure making me feel a bit better.

 

That rod looks pretty ugly...I'm no expert but it sure strikes me as a lack of pride on the part of the builder. But I tend to get OCD even over stuff that's never seen.

It's good you've identified all these issues now rather than later when they insist on demonstrating their destructive leanings to you! I hope you'll be able to enjoy some great summer miles with good peace of mind now.

 

With all you've described since you got that engine back from its first build, I would have guessed Mark would find a few surprises, but never anything that crazy. Condolences for all you've been through and congrats on finally finding the right builder.

 

Mark's the right guy to fix what can be - I'm local to his shop and had opportunity to visit on a number occasions during the motor build he performed for my ragtop.

The results he delivered were definitely worth the investment.

 

To explain further, it was #4 main cap that had the bearing shown. And yes it dropped right out of the cap, no crush at all. Balance is the norm for that, but there are other possibilities as well.
Machine work was done at a minimum, no align hone, minimal rod work etc.
It’ll be a challenge to bring this up to my standards, while still working within the confines of what’s in front of me.
Nonetheless, I’m confident I can deliver more than satisfactory results. It’ll just take a bit more thought and effort than usual.

 

Yeah, by the time i got back to it, my scratch pad of notes wasn't making as much sense as I thought it would.. lol

 

The rod is weird. The "normal" rod next to it doesn't show any signs of being ground for balance either.

 

Update; I’m going to steal some of Brian’s thunder here.
Heads checked out at 82cc’s. That, coupled with the current piston and deck height, equated to about a 9.1-9.2:1 comp ratio, not the 10:1 Brian was shooting for. (The block has huge chamfers on the tops of the cylinders. That has to be factored in as well).
Main saddles were .001+ OVER the high side of the spec. In addition, the journals get smaller and smaller as you go from the rear of the crank to the front, ending up under the low end of the spec. Some journals had at least .005 bearing clearance, maybe more.
So, moving forward, it will get a minimum overbore (it has 2 sleeves in it so that limits our options), a square decking and of course align honed with ARP hardware.
In summary, we found the smoking guns for the low oil pressure as well as the less than stellar performance. However the cam going back in it will be even larger than the previous one, but tuned correctly with a much higher compression ratio.
Thanks.

 

Please understand that I’m not trying to twist a knife in your already bleeding “exit orifice.” You had a difficult situation with that engine & choices that needed to be made, all during an absolutely crazy time in history. It could almost be characterized as an oddball engine (2 year only 400G) & very few people are familiar with it. You have paid a heavy price emotionally, financially and labor wise, but the good news is that it’s now in good hands and once you get it back in the car, I think you will be proud and incapable of wiping the smile from your face!

BUT…

Every aspect of dealing with this engine was left in the hands of unknowledgeable, inept people, that mishandled everything they touched and likely defrauded you. Personally, I would have Mark carefully document the problems and try to recoup losses civilly from the shop that did this, even if his additional time costs you an extra few hundred bucks.

Lastly (pending some slings & arrows coming my way), I post this partly as a warning to future hobbyists having engine builds planned, especially if engines have out of the ordinary issues and/or were brief production in nature. Despite this, at its base, this is an “I told you so,” please accept my apology if this comes across as insensitive, again that’s not my intention. It’s more of a warning to others and you’re not the only person that’s been screwed by an engine builder/machine shop and unfortunately, won’t be the last. There’s a dozen expert builders that have or presently participate here and none of them would have ever done anything like this to anyone. Think of how this coulda, woulda gone by shipping this off (I understand & respect keeping the born with eng) or foregoing the numbers match & having one of them build you something that would be ready to drop in and run reliably.

I wish you happiness and satisfaction once you get the car back on the road and I think that’s going to happen!

 

What a fooking mess ! And 2 sleeves in it already ? My old saying of "Go cheap and you'll more than pay for in the end" makes sense.

 

No hurt feelings here. while I appreciate forums for the issues when I have them, Im also a firm believer in the statement you made about this serving as a lesson for those in the future.

The things that Mark has uncovered are astonishing based on the reputation of both shops who worked on this. Mistakes due to not specializing in one particular brand are one thing, but to have a reputable business send work out the way they did is inexcusable.

Hindsight being it what it is, this absolutely would've started with sending it down to Mark. As far as recouping any losses/damages..the shop that did the machine work to the block has been sold since I picked it up, so I doubt they'll honor anything. The other shop is still in business (the ones who welded a rod) and the thought has crossed my mind about reaching out to them, but as much as he argued the cam issue and simple tuning..Id like to build as strong of an argument as I can.

 

the sleeves were due to the damage done from being left exposed in the elements for 15 years prior to me getting the car. Being a numbers car, saving the block was a priority.

 

But after installing a carb that you said was still too rich and an HEI, the motor still made what a factory 69 400 automatic did. Which was 325hp.

the good news is…it’s a God send you didn’t get it tuned in correctly because you maybe have been satisfied with it and continued to drive it.

it would have blown up in the future because the bearings were beat out of it…it was minutes from spinning a bearing.

 

after what all has been found, yes I agree its a good thing I wasn't able to dial it in. The first round of pulls was with the carb that I knew was way too lean and the restored points distributor. The second round of pulls was with the Jet Qjet which was too rich, with the HEI. That showed there were ignition issues (in addition to the multitude of other problems).

 

Well, i figured id dredge this back up as Im sure pretty soon Ill be thrashing to get everything back together before it gets too crappy outside. Aa far as what's been done during the downtime-not much. I did get the firewall/cowl touched up, the HVAC box painted and reinstalled, the fender liners painted, and the front seal in the transmission replaced.

I still need to run a power wire for the distributor, but beyond that I think thats really it until the engine gets here. Granted, Ive been so busy this summer (some of it trying to keep my mind off of the car) that I'm sure theres something Im missing, but I can't wait to get this thing finished up/back together/back on the road.

 

whats the HP and TQ numbers now?

 

Not sure yet, but I know the potential was somewhat limited by the work that had already been done to the block. Im not chasing a number or anything like that either, obviously Id like to have as much as I can but the priority is a great running and reliable engine.

 

What was done to the block that will limit/ impact performance? When is it going on the dyno? What are the new build specifications?
Looking froward to seeing your new build..

 

See Mark's post #26. While I think Brian is wise to temper his expectations, I can't help feeling like he will be pleasantly surprised.

Also curious to see dyno numbers.

 

I guess we're about due to bring this back up to the top.

Super long story short..the previous iteration of this engine needed much more help than either of us expected..but we're nearing the end. It was actually on the dyno a couple weeks ago, and made 403hp/438tq while lean. I say a couple weeks ago, as due to a fluke incident..it had a valve stick open. Shoutout to Mark though..for tearing back into it and investigating what happened and working to get it fixed correctly. It ended up being a fluke deal, thankfully, but should be fixed, back together, and back on the dyno (most likely) early next week.

I am beyond ready and excited to get this thing back and installed, but also thankful that A. I know itll be right, and B. Its going to have more power than I had expected.

 

Glad you have someone who stands by his work, Mark definitely does. Not bad numbers for the least loved Olds BB. What compression did it end up at? Curious about the cam specs as well. Yeah building engines is frustrating and expensive, been there too. There is also luck involved and apparently you get none. You sure will appreciate it, once it is done right.

 

Great to hear an update on your car. Are you going to have Mark setup your carburetor so you won't be lean? That way will be able to install it and go with no worries.