How can one know what the "Dealer Installed Options" were? That is if a person were to add an option or two that some may feel is "ok" to add and not feel like a cheater. I realize to be legit anything added should be told upfront if shown or sold. My specific interest would be on a 68 Cutlass convertable. options I'd like to add are a center console (column to floor shift) and maybe ralleye pack guages.

 

Typically 'Dealer Installed Options' were listed in the dealer ordering guides of the day. That said, many cars were ordered with some basic equipment and 'upgraded' to meet specific demands of the local demographics. To that extent, a car sold with what would appear as factory options would have the dealer add ons listed on the Bill of Sale and invoice details. An example of a dealer add on? Engine block heater. Another - In late 1971 Olds acknowledged an overheating issue encountered with some 455's. As part of a remedy they offered ANY Olds owner who complained about overheating engine (455 or 350) the dealer installed radiator overflow reservoir at NO CHARGE. That part is now uber expensive as OEM NOS, but available as a repro for 200.00. The repro is similar but missing signifcant details of the OEM.


If you didn't have that original sales or ordering detail, you would never know what the car was built as unless you have the actual build sheet and know how to read it.

As far as adding a D55 console and U21 rallye gages? Go for it. They are both listed as factory installed options, but could also easily be installed by the dealer. You would also need to change the steering column to make the transition appear 'as factory' even though it is 'owner installed'.

IMO adding options that are period correct to your car is not cheating. It's simply building your Oldsmobile the way you would have done it from the factory back in the day. Claiming it came from the factory that way is a different story though. That's another topic for another thread that has been through the wringer here more than a few times; and has some nasty inferences as it evolves.

 

Allan,

Exactly what I was hoping to hear. I plan on keeping the car for ever and passing on to grandkids (if they behave). but for discussion at shows etc. I did not want to push it so-to-speak since engine, tranny, rear end and interior as it sits is original.

Thanks,

Dan

 

The reality is that dealer-installed options were NOT factory installed. If the dealer installed a Chevy motor for a customer, would that make it legitimate? Of course, there is no documentation to prove what the dealer installed, and since most Oldsmobiles don't have build sheets, you can pretty much get away with anything. How you feel about that is up to you. Building a car for yourself is one thing. Building a car and passing it off as some rare factory build is something else entirely. Only you can decide what to do, but many of us are sensitive to these fabricated cars because pretty much every high-dollar fully loaded auction car has had these rare options added as part of the body-off resto, yet the cars are promoted with carefully worded ads that imply (but do not say outright) that the options were factory installed. The reality is that very few muscle cars from the 1960s came with a boatload of options, since they were usually ordered by young males with little cash.

I'm personally sensitive to this because I do own a completely loaded 1968 W-30, but the car has not yet been restored and is documented with all the options in place BEFORE the restoration.

 

Joe, I think the distinction you are looking for is the listing of what was categorically a 'Dealer only' option for installation vs. a Factory produced option that anyone could buy through the parts counter (including dealer only options) and have installed on their car. I agree that this is a highly sensitive topic and appreciate how it may be a special peeve of yours, given the nature of your W30.

I still maintain that it's fine to install a period correct option from the model year as a feature of the car, just so long as it's not claimed to have been ordered that way from the factory. I've seen plenty of documents that show the added options (whether dealer or factory) added to sales documents, so to say there's no documentation to confirm what the dealer installed is not 100% true. Since most of these documents aren't kept by most owners it's easy to see how that documentation could end up missing. Admittedly it comes down to ethics of the owner and seller. Also, I'm not convinced that it's fair to say most Oldsmobiles don't have build sheets. A surprising number of cars that were non Lansing are showing build sheet documentation showing up on a consistent basis.

FWIW? My car was a plain jane Cutlass S from the factory and I have the documentation to prove what it was built with, and where it was delivered on April 10, 1972. I have changed some of the components of my car and will add as many correct 1972 options as I can for my personal enjoyment. At no time however do I ever represent the car as being something it's not. Anyone who asks will always get an honest answer from me. When I'm planted in the ground, I will have a documented history of the car from the time it was born to the time I last saw it, and will put that documentation in the car for any future owners. And before you say it, yes I know I can't guarantee anything that happens as representation once the car leaves my hands. Blame that on today's society, morals or ethics - not the car. And one other thing - as you have alluded to yourself on numerous occasions - a person buying a car should research it carefully before committing cash to the sale. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that an H or K in the 72 VIN isn't an X or U.

Based on what Dan is planning for his car? I support his endeavors 100%. In fact the most common theme I hear from folks on this site when asked how to proceed on a build or option change is " build it the way you want to.." and that's as fair an endorsement as I've ever heard from fellow Olds enthusiasts.

 

It is "okay" to add anything you want to your car and, and you won't be a cheater.
There, I said it, and that is the truth. The only time "not okay" and "cheating" come into play is when one lies about something.
If you want to add something that came from the factory on your particular car, that is one thing. If you want to add something that could have been a dealer installed, that broadens the scope.
1. There are "dealer installed options" for the most part are options that could also have come from the factory.
2. There are some "dealer installed options" that could not be ordered from the factory.
3. Then there is the wide open "whatever you want" dealer installed items. And that includes things that could void warranties.

If you simply want to be "factory correct" then stick with #1. But all of these are "okay" so do what you want accordingly.

 

X2...and whose name is on the Title [or bill of sale...or whatever is correct & legal documentation from where the owner resides]. It's theirs. Period. Moral turpitude notwithstanding. Brett. IMHO.

Sidebar, Allan I need to get one of those cool Disclaimers like you have to place at bottom of all my posts. I Like that one.

 

I agree with Kurt. If you lie or mislead, that is wrong. If it is in a judged show, it depends on the sanctioning body. The Antique Automobile Club of America allows options to be added, so long as they were correct and available for that year and model from the factory. And they allow color changes so long as the car or interior is done with a correct one for that year.

 

It sounds to me all agree that if we build a car that started with few options and add more for our personal benefit, ok. I do understand the sensitive nature of rare but authentic gems that started that way. I have a friend with a real 67 Chevelle SS w/ 396 A/C etc. that was upset when period accurate rivets became available making it possible to replace a body or Vin tag. What do we do? Outlaw rivets? It all comes down to documentation. For me, I plan to keep the car and all original parts etc. so the car can be brought back to original if I or someone desires somewhere down the road. Thats the best I can do.

I appreciate all inputs and apologize for re opening this subject but sometimes keeping it in the open is the best way to maintain the ethics.

Dan

 

Well I'm building mine how I want it! And no dealer installed options or whatever... 200r4 stroker engine, real leather interior (white) with heated seats, blue panels instead of black (yeah blue was not available for convertibles that year), I guess it would be called a restomod... It will look like a 72 Cutlass when done, but comfortably upgraded! (I do not intend to pass it off as a numbers matching 442 convertible either!)
I have had the car for nearly 20 years, and now I am finally at a point where I can fix a lot of the molestation it has had over the years (new wiring harnesses) and do a few safety upgrades, and make the interior look less cheap plastic...
My 2 cents is make it fun and safe... then drive the wheels off it! ;-)


Dave

 

Good for you, Dave. I actually thought about going a little farther on mine too until I got it home and found the engine and tranny (jetaway, unfortunately) was original. The more I talked to people and thought about it the more I felt responsible to keep it at least close.

The problem is, now I'm starting to think about finding another one without an engine and maybe even without an interior. That way I could do what i want and I woudn't be molesting anything. Have fun.

dan

 

Dan, I'm going to be blunt. Imho your car is not rare, and probably will never be. It is a Cutlass convertible. Make it what you want and don't worry about the future. Just enjoy it.

 

No apologies necessary. It is what it is and you've done nothing that could be considered offensive by asking for opinions.

Only 20 years Dave?? I guess that's ok. I love the idea of real leather and the electric seat heaters BTW. I happen to be one of the guys who doesn't have a molested car, so I'm going the factory option route on my car - up to a point. I'm glad I upgraded to 3.42 posi, but I'm seriously looking at going the route you took for tranny. 200 4R will handle the car nicely in the city and more economical on the hi-way than a TH350. And as I get continually younger I also am thinking it would be a great idea to drive the wheels off this beast before I can't drive anymore. Jeez you're such an influential guy